Holland's deadline moves..

[Frozen-Man 144]

It was fine for the regular season as a whole. It was fine in the second round. But the 2.5 goals a game that we scored in the first round (not counting the two empty-netters) is nothing to write home about. It would put us smack in the middle of playoff teams and right around the bottom third in the regular season.

Against Dallas or SJ, the number is probably going to be a lot closer to what it was in the first round than what it was in the second round. We've all got warm fuzzies about our offense right now because they dropped 21 goals on Colorado in 4 games, but it's worth remembering that Colorado and Theodore suck really badly. Our team played AMAZINGLY well--and it wasn't just that Theodore blows--but our opponent did have a role in the surge in offensive output.

It's very possible that the offense will never be an issue in the playoffs and I hope it's not. But Dallas and SJ are both better than Nashville and we had issues at times against the Predators. I'm still very very confident in Detroit's chances to go all the way (particularly if they keep the effort where it's been the last 6 games) but I also wouldn't bet my life on the offensive "woes" being gone for good.

It was fine in the regular season as a whole, 82 games, and in the second round, 4 games, but the 6 games we played in the first round it wasn't that good. I understand your point (and agree we will probably needed to be better than we were in the first round especially games 3 and 4) but overall we have been great. Only 2 teams got more goals than we did throughout the season that means that 27 other teams wish that they could have scored as many goals as we did (not to mention that we allowed the fewest goals which makes for one heck of a combo). In the playoffs none of the of the other 15 teams have scored as many goals as we have and the team in second place has played more games than we have. We also have the greatest goal differential in the playoffs (1.7 goals more per game than we give up) largly in part to having a goalie who has a 1.52 GAA and a 93.7 save percentage. Furthermore, if Colorado and Theodore are so bad (I know they had injuries which hurt them) why did they give up 21 goals to us in 4 games and only 12 to Minny in 6 games. We dropped 9 more goals on them in 2 fewer games than Minny did. I realize that we are better than the Wild but still 21 goals in 4 games against a team in the second round is impressive.

I never really understand what it is that so many Wings fans really want. Third most goals in the season, first in goals in the playoff, playoff leader in goals and Hank in third (and Dats tied for fifth), numbers 2, 4, and 5 in post season scoring, numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 in plus minus (recently updated), number 1 goalie in GAA, and number 3 in save percentage. That is amazing - not to mention all of the player's we have up for awards because of their stellar play, including two Selke finalists which means that they are good enough that we don't have to score as many goals as other teams (even though we are always at the top) because our team knows how to play defense as well and can shut other teams down. How crazy is it that we can have the number 4 and 5 point getters in the playoffs also be two of the three guys named as the best defensive forwards. They score more than anyone and still play the best defense. There really is not many teams in this league or fans that would not kill to have day after day - year after year what we get as Wings fans and it seems that we get to the point where we don't realize how amazing it is. Regardless of what happens this season, we have back to back western conference finals appearances and so many other teams don't even get to see their teams make the playoffs. Our guys are unreal and we have a management that has built one of the most impressive offensive and defensive teams and they continue to produce the product on a constant basis.

[Frozen-Man 144]

IMO we have an awesome forward top line, an awesome top D pairing, & a very good 2-way Dman in Kronwall; it's these 6 guys that have provided the bulk of our scoring this past reg season (could throw in Cleary before he went out with a broken jaw).....Would love to see Holland land someone who shoots 1st, & passes 2nd (unlike Filppula) - maybe Mike Ryder?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a 2nd or 3rd line guy that would be able to snipe for us (and would love it if we can pick up Ryder within our budget) it just perplexes me that unless everyone has 30 goals we have problems. We had 5 guys with at least 20 goals (6 forwards with at least 19 goals) and 10 guys with at least 10 goals and 8 forwards with at least 2 goals in the playoffs. I would love to have Ryder but even without him we have a lot of fire power and fowards who overall can play defense.

[Packer487 3]

Furthermore, if Colorado and Theodore are so bad (I know they had injuries which hurt them) why did they give up 21 goals to us in 4 games and only 12 to Minny in 6 games. We dropped 9 more goals on them in 2 fewer games than Minny did. I realize that we are better than the Wild but still 21 goals in 4 games against a team in the second round is impressive.

Honestly? Because Theodore went back to being Theodore. The Wild don't really attack a goalie the way Detroit can, and he broke. 21 goals in 4 games is impressive. A lot of them were outstanding plays by Detroit. But the Avs were standing around and watching for a good portion of that series. They really didn't put up much of a fight and Theodore was really awful.

I never really understand what it is that so many Wings fans really want.

Championships. I know we've been spoiled in the last 10-15 years with the consistently great play of the team, but it's been six years since the last title and when you go into the playoffs as one of the favorites each season, it's been a long time. If they win the title, I don't care if we have anyone in the top 20 in scoring. Similarly, I don't care if we score more than 5 goals a game against Colorado if we go back to shooting 50 times and scoring twice against Dallas.

Maybe I'm slightly paranoid, but the scoring slump in the second half of the regular season showed that they're aren't infallable and they had trouble putting pucks in the net in the first round. This past series was great, but we were playing a banged up hockey team that wasn't all that great defensively to start with.

Regardless of who we play in the next round it's going to be our toughest series. All I'm saying is that it's probably too early to make a thread about how Holland was right for not making a move for a forward. Though it's unlikely, we could easily score 10-12 goals in the next six games and lose 4 games to 2. God knows it wouldn't be the first time.

I would argue that just because something may work out, it doesn't mean that it was handled correctly. If Franzen had kept with the status quo (at the deadline), this team would still be a forward short--and Holland couldn't have known that Franzen was going to do what he's done.

He rolled the dice with what we had and miraculously a 12 goal scorer turned into an absolute force. You can call it brilliant GMing. I think he was pretty fortunate that Franzen exploded and it looks like things might work out. I said all along it was possible that we had enough offense to win. I did--and still do--think that a Fedorov or Prospal would have been a great pickup, especially for what they went for.

Conversely, I would also argue that just because things DIDN'T work out last year, it doesn't mean things were handled incorrectly. I liked the Bertuzzi trade and I still do. Just because we didn't win the title and lost him for nothing, they seem convinced that it was a dumb decision. I don't think it was. You can't become scared to make a trade simply because one prospect that you dealt MIGHT turn into a decent player. We were close to winning the Cup last year and had a couple bounces/calls go against us.

Even though I don't think Holland is as amazing as most people around here do, I do think he's a pretty good GM and he's right more often than not (and probably more than I give him credit for). I don't think this was one of those times, even if it does end up working out with another parade down Woodward.

[Guest Crymson]

It was fine in the regular season as a whole, 82 games, and in the second round, 4 games, but the 6 games we played in the first round it wasn't that good. I understand your point (and agree we will probably needed to be better than we were in the first round especially games 3 and 4) but overall we have been great. Only 2 teams got more goals than we did throughout the season that means that 27 other teams wish that they could have scored as many goals as we did (not to mention that we allowed the fewest goals which makes for one heck of a combo). In the playoffs none of the of the other 15 teams have scored as many goals as we have and the team in second place has played more games than we have. We also have the greatest goal differential in the playoffs (1.7 goals more per game than we give up) largly in part to having a goalie who has a 1.52 GAA and a 93.7 save percentage. Furthermore, if Colorado and Theodore are so bad (I know they had injuries which hurt them) why did they give up 21 goals to us in 4 games and only 12 to Minny in 6 games. We dropped 9 more goals on them in 2 fewer games than Minny did. I realize that we are better than the Wild but still 21 goals in 4 games against a team in the second round is impressive.

His arguing that it'll be harder stems from defensive pessimism.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Honestly? Because Theodore went back to being Theodore. The Wild don't really attack a goalie the way Detroit can, and he broke. 21 goals in 4 games is impressive. A lot of them were outstanding plays by Detroit. But the Avs were standing around and watching for a good portion of that series. They really didn't put up much of a fight and Theodore was really awful.

Championships. I know we've been spoiled in the last 10-15 years with the consistently great play of the team, but it's been six years since the last title and when you go into the playoffs as one of the favorites each season, it's been a long time. If they win the title, I don't care if we have anyone in the top 20 in scoring. Similarly, I don't care if we score more than 5 goals a game against Colorado if we go back to shooting 50 times and scoring twice against Dallas.

Maybe I'm slightly paranoid, but the scoring slump in the second half of the regular season showed that they're aren't infallable and they had trouble putting pucks in the net in the first round. This past series was great, but we were playing a banged up hockey team that wasn't all that great defensively to start with.

Regardless of who we play in the next round it's going to be our toughest series. All I'm saying is that it's probably too early to make a thread about how Holland was right for not making a move for a forward. Though it's unlikely, we could easily score 10-12 goals in the next six games and lose 4 games to 2. God knows it wouldn't be the first time.

I would argue that just because something may work out, it doesn't mean that it was handled correctly. If Franzen had kept with the status quo (at the deadline), this team would still be a forward short--and Holland couldn't have known that Franzen was going to do what he's done.

He rolled the dice with what we had and miraculously a 12 goal scorer turned into an absolute force. You can call it brilliant GMing. I think he was pretty fortunate that Franzen exploded and it looks like things might work out. I said all along it was possible that we had enough offense to win. I did--and still do--think that a Fedorov or Prospal would have been a great pickup, especially for what they went for.

Conversely, I would also argue that just because things DIDN'T work out last year, it doesn't mean things were handled incorrectly. I liked the Bertuzzi trade and I still do. Just because we didn't win the title and lost him for nothing, they seem convinced that it was a dumb decision. I don't think it was. You can't become scared to make a trade simply because one prospect that you dealt MIGHT turn into a decent player. We were close to winning the Cup last year and had a couple bounces/calls go against us.

Even though I don't think Holland is as amazing as most people around here do, I do think he's a pretty good GM and he's right more often than not (and probably more than I give him credit for). I don't think this was one of those times, even if it does end up working out with another parade down Woodward.

Excellent post, I enjoy reading people who can make rational cogent arguments for their position (which doesn't happen often enough IMO) and I agree that the decision of whether or not Kenny made or did not make good trades should be judged at the time of the trade not with the ultimate result. I even agree with everything you said that I put in bold, I just think it means something else. The fact that we did attack and scored so much shows that we are a different and better team than the Wild are. They couldn't break Theo and we did. Before the series people were talking about him playing like a Conn Smythe candidate. The Wild couldn't shake him and we destroyed him (I know that they were banged up and without a lot of players but our offense was impressive and we swept them in the regular season as well).

Our slump during the year was from having 4 of our best D men out and we generate a lot of offense from them. Furthermore, we had many good forwards out. I think our slump was hindered by that and if you take that out we haven't really had a hard time scoring except a few games in Nashville. My understanding was that the Blue Jackets did not want to deal him to us for the same price that they would deal him to someone outside the Central division otherwise I would have liked to get him as well. BUT in the end I guess I just figure that Kenny knew what he could get and at what price and everything was too expensive. I know we haven't won a cup in 6 years but as you said we have gone in as contenders every year - too many teams get to come in as contenders one year because they have trade away way too much for the chance to win that year and then in a year or two are at the bottom. I like the ballance that they strike