don cherry

[DallasStars 0]

Don Cherry was a miserable coach and a worse analyst. He dresses like a goddamn toucan so he can garnish attention because his analysis and rhetoric is below substandard. He's potentially worse than Barry Melrose and it's just fitting that he ends up on the WWL.

Why they keep letting these tired, retread has-been coaches analyze hockey is beyond me.

In Cherry's world, the NHL would be best served to ban all euros. It's the sort of draconic bulls*** thats bringing the league down. He was ready to burn Ewe Krupp at the stake but had no problem turning a blind eye when a north american player does the exact same thing.

Like last night, Datsyuk refuses to back down from anyone, even giving Roberts some punches during the end of the game scrum. When asked about it, Cherry mocked him as if he was saying "get away from me" with a homosexual flair. Anyone associated with the game knows that Datsyuk is incredibly gifted and extraordinarily strong. The myth that Europeans can't play tough is ludicrus and reeks of cultural bias. Kronwall has delivered the best hits of the playoffs thus far and - god forbid - he's swedish. That can't happen, can it?

Those calling the current NHL garbage are off base, in my opinion. I loved the mid-90's - they were exciting because of marquee matchups and media exposure. The NHL currently has a ton of talent of hearkening back to the days of the dump and chase and the Lemaire-trap is rubbish. The NHL needs to make a minor change to the obstruction calls, get referees to standardize their calls, get back on the WWL, and fire Bettman. There's tons of skill; it just needs to be highlighted better. The problem isn't the product, its the presentation and management of that product.

[Opie 308]

WOW!!!!!!

I never use a % over 100 but I agree 300% with DallasStars!!!!!!

[betterREDthandead 58]

I love how some of you think that the fear of getting punched in the face will stop a hockey player from doing anything.

How many players get face washed, forearmed, or punched in a scrum every game.

Earlier in the year it was some one punch Tootoo that will stop him.

NO IT WON"T!

To Gary Roberts getting punched in the face is like me walking around my apartment barefoot and stubbing my toe. Does it stop me from walking around barefoot again, NO!

There is a reason why some teams do this stuff to Detroit, to get them off of their game. Because when Detroit is firing on all cylinders they are a very hard team to beat, so you try to rough up Mule, thinking it may slow him down, you try to hit Ozzie, you try to get Zetterberg off of his game!!!

This is the post season, the way you send a message is to send a team home, not by gooning it up!

Misty Belle is right, in the post season only one thing matters and that my friends is the scoreboard!

Q. F. T!

Exactly what I was trying to say earlier.

[BlueMonk 102]

I completely disagree that the fear of getting punched in the face doesn't affect players. It does affect them, and they don't like it. Intimidation is a part of hockey. Toughness is about more than hitting someone or fighting, though. The ability to take the hit but still make the play is an underappreciated aspect of toughness. That's what a lot of the Red Wings have and yet it gets overlooked because they're not dropping the gloves.

I do take exception with what Grapes said about Datsyuk, by the way. Dats has been a warrior and he has shown the kind of toughness that a team needs from its leaders to win. I almost started a thread about this, but I'll just post it here instead. I heard Boomer from XM 204 Home Ice last night talking about Datsyuk's play in these playoffs. He was gushing about what a great hockey player Dats is, and how he hits and doesn't back down from physical play. He said if Datsyuk was from Saskatchewan, he'd be hailed as a Brendan Morrow, heart and soul kind of player. He even said Datsyuk and the word leader are never used together in the North American press, but they should be, because Datsyuk is leading his team by example.

I agree, and I'm glad someone said it. Props to Boomer. I have to give my man Grapes a big thumbs down for his dismissal of Datsyuk.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Grapes is funny at times, but most of the time he is obnoxious and has no intention of hiding biase against Europeans. When Roberts jumped Pav and Pav started beating on that ass, Grapes played Pav off as a *****, of course thats cause the "coach" was raving about Roberts as a difference maker and he only showed up as a goon. He also keeps down playing Hank's OBVIOUS domination of Crosby, who is the "Canadian Idol", eventhough all Hank has done was shut down the supposed most powerful line in hockey while still producing offensively. He made some comment about how the Pens need to follow Pav and Hank "to the ladies room if they have to".

On a side note: if the domination continues, can we officially say that not only is the West far superior to the purely offensive East, and to a more specific extent, that Pav and Hank are better all-around players than Crosby and Malkin?

[lomekian 201]

Totally agree with bluemonk's thoughts...also i totally agree with the dallas fan's assessment (despite his team!)....after all I'm an NHL junkie and have been so since the mid 90s......I only got cable this year, so I've had to rely on occasional late night broadcasts....oddly, the only playoffs I've been able to watch almost all of have been 2002 and this year, which is a spot of luck. Anyway, the point is I'm in the uk with a very small hockey fan base and have come to apperciate this 'product', but that if it wasn't for a computer game I would never have discovered it. Games in London etc are a step forward, but its clear the NHL aren't doing enough in traditional non-hockey markets. Ok it will never rival football (or soccer- wahtever) for global popularity because of the equipment, infrastructure etc required, but if the ever ridiculous NFL can be a mcuh bigger global brand, there's hope yet. Hell even cricket has become multi-million pound sport in India....

[isbister 0]

Don Cherry is a c***

[Misty Belle 0]

His point is that we have no fighters on this squad. And no one is going to give anything more than a facewash if it comes down to it. Gary Roberts is as much piss and vinegar as Chelios is, with a knack for a good fight in him still. Any of our guys drops em clean with Roberts and at best we're in for a draw. You know what that does? Energize the Pens.

we've been around this block before, I dont' see how you can say we don't have any fighters on this team, Drake, McCartney, Chelios like you mention, heck, Roberts isn't that big of a fighter himself so you could extend it to other RW players like even a Helm. I know he and others don't fight much but let's face it, if they were on a .500 team they'd be doing alot more of it. We don't typically fight b/c we don't have to : understood. But what concerns me is the complete and utter cheap shots against a teammate who's had a concussion. I don't want to see his career ruined like Jeff Boukeboom's. Notcie how nobody has taken on that question. The refs and the NHL (Neaderthal Hockey League) clearly aren't goning to do anything about it.

energize the pens? we've completely dominated them in every single facet of the game so we should let them cheapshot a guy coming back from a concussion?

and for the last time, nobody is talking about a facewash.

[Bad Vlad Forever 1]

I love Don Cherry. I'd rather watch the CBC feed than any other feed. He's a tradition, he's full of it, he knows what he's talking about, he likes being an irritant/personality, he's proud of being canadian. I think he's a piece of work, but i 'get' it.

[9-HoweFan 2]

Don Cherry dumping on the Wings is nothing new. He's been on their case since Lidstrom, Fedorov & Konstantinov were rookies. It all has to do with foreign players taking NHL spots from North American players. Years ago a local radio station asked him if he really thought the Detroit players were less superior.

He said something along the lines off.....I know hockey and I know hockey players, especially very good players. Those guys are very good players, but you have to realize who I work for. The show is called "Hockey Night in Canada" with and emphasis on Canada. No matter what I say on the show, that doesn't change the talent of the player. Not exactly mind you, but that was the jist of it. I heard it myself.

Basically his job is to be controversial and colorful, nothing more, raising arguments and adding viewership. If he just sat there and said, yes their good it would be validating the arguments against Canadian players getting a chance because they got replaced by better foreigners.

Is there an anti-foreigner sentinment in Canadian hockey? Yes.

It's funny, when the Russians were beating up on the Canadian national team, they were the most evil ones around. Now that the Swede's are doing it internationally, they're the most evils one around.

Another thing to keep in mind. If you take this entire Wings team and put them in Maple Leafs jersey's then they would be the Gods of hockey. Don't let Cherry take the pride away from you.

He did do his job to perfection again though, he created interest through controversy. Otherwise there wouldn't be a 3-page thread on this.

[betterREDthandead 58]

we've been around this block before, I dont' see how you can say we don't have any fighters on this team, Drake, McCartney, Chelios like you mention, heck, Roberts isn't that big of a fighter himself so you could extend it to other RW players like even a Helm. I know he and others don't fight much but let's face it, if they were on a .500 team they'd be doing alot more of it. We don't typically fight b/c we don't have to : understood. But what concerns me is the complete and utter cheap shots against a teammate who's had a concussion. I don't want to see his career ruined like Jeff Boukeboom's. Notcie how nobody has taken on that question. The refs and the NHL (Neaderthal Hockey League) clearly aren't goning to do anything about it.

energize the pens? we've completely dominated them in every single facet of the game so we should let them cheapshot a guy coming back from a concussion?

and for the last time, nobody is talking about a facewash.

I don't care about the concussion. Kornheiser had a point on PTI. (I think it was him. Anyway.) If he's not ready to go, if he's truly at risk for further injury, DON'T PLAY HIM. There's a reason teams lie through their pieholes about injuries. If you say a guy has bruised ribs, of course he's gonna get hit every time. Nobody considers that a cheap shot.

A cheapshot is a cheapshot regardless of injury. The Wings are at fault for putting him at risk if he's liable to be seriously hurt by playing in the game. Roberts' punch was a low thing to do, but Franzen's injury doesn't make it worse. It'd be just as bad if he'd done it to anyone else.

[ami 273]

...but Franzen's injury doesn't make it worse. It'd be just as bad if he'd done it to anyone else.

really? then tell me why a couple of your gutless f-cks punched Franzen in the head?

Roberts's been around for a league long time and is no fool, he knows exactly what he's doing...

he didn't expect to be taken care of by Lady Bing nominee though

Edited May 28, 2008 by ami

[Misty Belle 0]

I don't care about the concussion. Kornheiser had a point on PTI. (I think it was him. Anyway.) If he's not ready to go, if he's truly at risk for further injury, DON'T PLAY HIM. There's a reason teams lie through their pieholes about injuries. If you say a guy has bruised ribs, of course he's gonna get hit every time. Nobody considers that a cheap shot.

A cheapshot is a cheapshot regardless of injury. The Wings are at fault for putting him at risk if he's liable to be seriously hurt by playing in the game. Roberts' punch was a low thing to do, but Franzen's injury doesn't make it worse. It'd be just as bad if he'd done it to anyone else.

Kornheiser? that dolt doesn't know a thing about hockey, why do ppl get their hockey news from ESPN?

anybody who's had a concussion is at more risk for further problems, that's the nature of concussions. Lindros? You still have yet to answer the jeff boukeboom question? not old enough to remember prob.

bruised ribs and head injuries are totally different. It's one thing to get hurt again b/c he got checked , it's an entirely different thing if it comes from a cheapshot to the head. You're talking about somebodies livelyhood and their quality of life

yes, Franzens injury makes the head shot worse , why the hell do you think he choose to hit him in the head and not the ribs ? it's alot worse b/c he's coming off a concussion. don't you get that?

[Misty Belle 0]

really? then tell me why a couple of your gutless f-cks punched Franzen in the head?

Roberts's been around for a league long time and is no fool, he knows exactly what he's doing...

he didn't expect to be taken care of by Lady Bing nominee though

he's actually a RW fan... I know it's sometimes hard to tell the difference.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Kornheiser? that dolt doesn't know a thing about hockey, why do ppl get their hockey news from ESPN?

anybody who's had a concussion is at more risk for further problems, that's the nature of concussions. Lindros? You still have yet to answer the jeff boukeboom question? not old enough to remember prob.

bruised ribs and head injuries are totally different. It's one thing to get hurt again b/c he got checked , it's an entirely different thing if it comes from a cheapshot to the head. You're talking about somebodies livelyhood and their quality of life

yes, Franzens injury makes the head shot worse , why the hell do you think he choose to hit him in the head and not the ribs ? it's alot worse b/c he's coming off a concussion. don't you get that?

Little older than you think I am, sister. Beukeboom retired in 1999.

And I don't know what "Beukeboom question" you want me to answer. I even re-read the thread. You said, quote, "Jeff Beukeboom" and then your next mention of it was like you expected everyone to address your two-word epiphany. Yes, I know how his career ended. So what?

Do you really expect the league to designate certain people for special protection? "OK, it's a 5 game suspension for a sucker-punch to the head, but 8 games if it's Johan Franzen." Nobody, but nobody, gets special treatment like that. You're either healthy enough to play the game and assume the associated risks, or you're not. Period. Just because it was Kornheiser that said it doesn't make it less valid. If he'd been talking about football or baseball, the point would be the exact same.

Again. You play the game and assume the risks, or you don't. Period. No special treatment. You don't get to play the game but have the league immunize you and you alone to the risks involved. A gutless sucker punch is a gutless sucker punch. Should you get two minutes for roughing, but four minutes for roughing Jiri Hudler because he's smaller and more likely to get hurt? Two for cross-checking, but four for cross-checking someone who once had a back injury? Bulls***.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I completely disagree that the fear of getting punched in the face doesn't affect players. It does affect them, and they don't like it. Intimidation is a part of hockey. Toughness is about more than hitting someone or fighting, though. The ability to take the hit but still make the play is an underappreciated aspect of toughness. That's what a lot of the Red Wings have and yet it gets overlooked because they're not dropping the gloves.

I do take exception with what Grapes said about Datsyuk, by the way. Dats has been a warrior and he has shown the kind of toughness that a team needs from its leaders to win. I almost started a thread about this, but I'll just post it here instead. I heard Boomer from XM 204 Home Ice last night talking about Datsyuk's play in these playoffs. He was gushing about what a great hockey player Dats is, and how he hits and doesn't back down from physical play. He said if Datsyuk was from Saskatchewan, he'd be hailed as a Brendan Morrow, heart and soul kind of player. He even said Datsyuk and the word leader are never used together in the North American press, but they should be, because Datsyuk is leading his team by example.

I agree, and I'm glad someone said it. Props to Boomer. I have to give my man Grapes a big thumbs down for his dismissal of Datsyuk.

It all depends upon the player you're engaging. I've fought enough times and I've punched enough people to know that. You take a guy like Tyson Nash. No matter how many times he got his ass kicked if he actually fought, no matter how many times you socked him in the face or cross checked him up high, he was going to continue to do what he does no matter what.

Then maybe you look at a guy like an Andy McDonald who always mixes things up, gets into the middle of scrums, shoves people and is basically a prick. You hit him up high and/or ring his bell with an elbow to the face and he pretty much cries like a girl and disappears.

At the NHL level though, most of the players will at least attempt to defend themselves and the refs, league, repercussions and suspensions pretty much takes care of the rest. It's when you get all the way down to the recreational beer league where you see the true effect intimidation plays.

I have never nor will I ever believe the intimidation factor from getting beat up is much of a deterrent in the NHL these days. It just isn't.

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

Gotta agree with betterRED on this one. If Franzen is at further risk from someone touching his head, he shouldn't play. Roberts should NOT be punished harder because he hit Franzen in the head probably knowing he had a "concussion". If that was punishable, the NHL would go further down the crapshoot. Teams could release faulty reports that their player had a concussion or an injury and then when their player gets hit, they cry foul and the offending player is suspended. Roberts does NOT deserve to be suspended.

However, that doesn't mean the Wings can't punish him the old fashioned way. i.e. a nice check into the boards, a fight that leaves him bloodied, etc. This is one of those "let the people on the ice" handle it situations. This is getting blown way out of proportion.

edited: grammar

Edited May 28, 2008 by McCartyFanForLife

[esteef 2,679]

Do you really expect the league to designate certain people for special protection? "OK, it's a 5 game suspension for a sucker-punch to the head, but 8 games if it's Johan Franzen." Nobody, but nobody, gets special treatment like that. You're either healthy enough to play the game and assume the associated risks, or you're not. Period. Just because it was Kornheiser that said it doesn't make it less valid. If he'd been talking about football or baseball, the point would be the exact same.

Again. You play the game and assume the risks, or you don't. Period. No special treatment. You don't get to play the game but have the league immunize you and you alone to the risks involved. A gutless sucker punch is a gutless sucker punch. Should you get two minutes for roughing, but four minutes for roughing Jiri Hudler because he's smaller and more likely to get hurt? Two for cross-checking, but four for cross-checking someone who once had a back injury? Bulls***.

I agree with this logic. If you're in the game, you're fair game. It just sucks that there wasn't even a call on the play at all.

And kids, Datsyuk sticking up for himself was great, but let's not get carried away with the Datsyuk kicked Roberts ass jibberish. The linesman got to Roberts quickly (and rightly so) to keep Roberts from really getting to Dats. Make no mistake, Roberts would kill Datsyuk.

Cheers!

esteef

[Misty Belle 0]

Little older than you think I am, sister. Beukeboom retired in 1999.

And I don't know what "Beukeboom question" you want me to answer. I even re-read the thread. You said, quote, "Jeff Beukeboom" and then your next mention of it was like you expected everyone to address your two-word epiphany. Yes, I know how his career ended. So what?

Do you really expect the league to designate certain people for special protection? "OK, it's a 5 game suspension for a sucker-punch to the head, but 8 games if it's Johan Franzen." Nobody, but nobody, gets special treatment like that. You're either healthy enough to play the game and assume the associated risks, or you're not. Period. Just because it was Kornheiser that said it doesn't make it less valid. If he'd been talking about football or baseball, the point would be the exact same.

ok Girlfriend, you've obviously never played hockey and I sure wouldn't want you on my team. For such a smartass you sure have a reading comprehension problem.

I never said the league should des. certain people for special treatment. There's not a question about 5 or 8 games, there's no suspension. It's a direct intent to injure knowing his history and it's his first game back. Surely you're not that dense.

and Kornheiser is a dolt.

[betterREDthandead 58]

ok Girlfriend, you've obviously never played hockey and I sure wouldn't want you on my team. For such a smartass you sure have a reading comprehension problem.

I never said the league should des. certain people for special treatment. There's not a question about 5 or 8 games, there's no suspension. It's a direct intent to injure knowing his history and it's his first game back. Surely you're not that dense.

and Kornheiser is a dolt.

Intent to injure equals a suspension. So which is it? Intent to injure, or no suspension?

[Misty Belle 0]

I agree with this logic. If you're in the game, you're fair game.

nobody in this thread has advocated special treatment for certain players.

so "fair game" means you can take mulitple pot shots at somebody's head the game they come back from a concussion? that's not a direct intent to injure?

[esteef 2,679]

nobody in this thread has advocated special treatment for certain players.

so "fair game" means you can take mulitple pot shots at somebody's head the game they come back from a concussion? that's not a direct intent to injure?

"Fair game" means if you're in the game you can be hit. If the hit warrants a penalty then the player should get one, but not MORE of a penalty because the guy's coming back from an injury.

[Misty Belle 0]

Intent to injure equals a suspension. So which is it? Intent to injure, or no suspension?

wouldn't intent to injure equal suspension?

circular logic and word games are how you like to debate, I think we've all seen this before on here,

the 5 or 8 game suspension was your example of how there shouldn't be a different set of rules for certain players. this was never brought up by anyone. the point is there was no suspension at all, no penalty called. But it was a cheap shot and a direct intent to injure somebody in a specific area of the body they were coming back from injury on. This is clear. The league should've suspended him for his dirty play.

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

Intent to injure equals a suspension. So which is it? Intent to injure, or no suspension?

I don't think that's true. Ribeiro got an intent to injure match penalty when he slashed Osgood. There was no suspension, but he was fined (along w/ Ozzie).

[Misty Belle 0]

"Fair game" means if you're in the game you can be hit. If the hit warrants a penalty then the player should get one, but not MORE of a penalty because the guy's coming back from an injury.

again, esteef, nobody has advocated more of a penalty. if there was no intent to injure then why didn't roberts hit him in the leg?

and just b/c there was no penalty called doesn't mean there shouldn't have been one. The league can fine or suspend players for altercations after reviewing the tape.

nobody is saying he can't get hit (checked, leagally in the game) I will take issue when that "hit" is a sucker punch to the head.