The most prestigious individual award?

[egroen 384]

I'll bet if you asked any player which trophy they'd rather have - Smythe or Hart, but not both - the vast majority would take the Smythe every time.

I agree... but the Smythe has the small added benefit of a Stanley Cup coming along with it.

Now ask those same players what they would rather have: A Conn Smythe or the Stanley Cup? I think we both know the answer.

Rewarding:

Cup > Smythe > Hart

Prestigious:

Hart > Smythe > Cup

[Wingman 0]

I'll bet if you asked any player which trophy they'd rather have - Smythe or Hart, but not both - the vast majority would take the Smythe every time.

Of course. But that does not change the fact that Hart tropy is the most prestigious trophy player can get.

I don't understand why some people do not get it..look up word 'prestigious' if you do not understand what it means.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ind...s=A1ARTA0003615

If the desire to win a certain prize doesn't define its prestige, what does!?

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

I *think* most would say Conn Smythe, since it's awarded to whoever performs best under the most pressure and intensity, when it matters the most.

Here we go with made up phrases like "performing under the most pressure and intensity" Guys don't start magically sucking when the postseason comes around. Everyone wants to win the Cup, and a lot of guys have the unfortunate task of facing better teams every year that knock them out of the playoffs.

For the record, the Smythe is "awarded annually to the player judged most valuable to his team during the National Hockey League's Stanley Cup playoffs."

[betterREDthandead 58]

That's because the Smythe usually comes with the Cup, which is what every player really wants. But the chances of ever winning one are extremely remote - and the discussion was about prestige, which history has bestowed the Hart as - the most prestigious trophy in the sport, after the Cup. And based on the history of Hart winners, it's impossible to argue against it. Nobody cares about the damn Smythe. Just talk to Cam Ward about it.

Maybe everybody should stop playing the regular season, hold a raffle for the 16 teams in the playoffs, that way we can forget about the 'meaningless' regular season and just focus on what's REALLY important - a small sample size of games played in April and May.

Sure. Since the regular season is what's REALLY important, let's abolish the Stanley Cup and make the President's Trophy the real deal.

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

Didn't one of your quotes that was supposed to be an ouch and hurt me, say that the most prestigious award was retired?

What.The f***.Does that have to do with anything?

You do know Zeta's Smythe is a replica, right? Ergo, it's "retired" as well?

[Reds4Life 51]

Sure. Since the regular season is what's REALLY important, let's abolish the Stanley Cup and make the President's Trophy the real deal.

lol

And who the hell said that?

You make things up. Congrats.

[Opie 308]

Here we go with made up phrases like "performing under the most pressure and intensity" Guys don't start magically sucking when the postseason comes around. Everyone wants to win the Cup, and a lot of guys have the unfortunate task of facing better teams every year that knock them out of the playoffs.

For the record, the Smythe is "awarded annually to the player judged most valuable to his team during the National Hockey League's Stanley Cup playoffs."

In regards to the bolded part:

No really, some players don't fold under the pressure, So then the Hart contender Evgeni Malkin didn't suck the bag on the most stress filled pressure packed stage, oh know that is right all the 3 points he got in the last two games make up for that!

I ask that you stop being so arrogant and typing things saying that I don't know what I am talking about or that I don't think things as far through as you do!

If you want to discuss our difference of opinion I am fine, but no need to start acting/typing like you know more than me.

If you want proof of my stubbornness check out my posts in threads like the one about the Ducks being the favorite where I didn't know anything because I said that the ducks wouldn't score the same with the loss of Teemu and Penner. Or many others where I have a difference of opinion from others. My opinion is my opinion. Just like yours!

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

lol

And who the hell said that?

You make things up. Congrats.

Noone, but unfortunately, since most people have been ESPNified and think there's something magical and mystical about the postseason, and regular season performances mean nothing, and David Eckstein is better than Arod, and Peyton WAS a choke and sucked until he won a Super Bowl and became good...they automatically go into nonsense-mode when a shred of rationality is bestowed upon their "REGULAR SEASON IS MEANINGLESS! THE PLAYOFFS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS AND IF AROD OR OVECHKIN NEVER WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS THAN ITS THEIR OWN ******* FAULT!"

[Reds4Life 51]

I agree... but the Smythe has the small added benefit of a Stanley Cup coming along with it.

Now ask those same players what they would rather have: A Conn Smythe or the Stanley Cup? I think we both know the answer.

Rewarding:

Cup > Smythe > Hart

Prestigious:

Hart > Smythe > Cup

Absolutely agree.

Some folks just do not undertand what 'prestige' means.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

Conn Smythe followed by the Pearson.

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

No really, some players don't fold under the pressure, So then the Hart contender Evgeni Malkin didn't suck the bag on the most stress filled pressure packed stage, oh know that is right all the 3 points he got in the last two games make up for that!

I love your tenacity arguing for the unprovable. Here's something that is provable: Kris Draper's line completely shut down Malkin in the Finals. Detroit's defense was 100x better than Philly's, New York's or Ottawa's. It wasn't because Malkin was in a "pressure" situation. It wasn't because Malkin decided to kick ass for 3 rounds, then when the Finals came around he said "Oh s***. I'm a *****. Time to stop trying. I can't ******* handle this pressure playing in the Finals..The world - it's too big! I'm a peabrained moron who can't....play...hockey...in...June!" Do you realize how ******* ridiculous you sound when you try and suggest something like that?

Edited June 13, 2008 by Probert 5 For Fighting

[Reds4Life 51]

I love your tenacity arguing for the unprovable. Here's something that is provable: Kris Draper's line completely shut down Malkin in the Finals. Detroit's defense was 100x better than Philly's, New York's or Ottawa's. It wasn't because Malkin was in a "pressure" situation. It wasn't because Malkin decided to kick ass for 3 rounds, then when the Finals came around he said "Oh s***. I'm a *****. Time to stop trying. I can't ******* handle this pressure playing in the Finals..The world - it's too big! I'm a peabrained moron who can't....play...hockey...in...June!"

Well said.

[Slave 31]

lol turned into a flame fest anyways i would rather win the pearson if i was a player but that is just me, when i was kid playing hockey no one i knew would run around saying "i want to win the hart" or "i want to win the con smythe" the only one that really matters i would guess is the cup.

I am not sure exactly how the hart is judged "most valuable to his team" or "best strait up player"?

I will venture to say if datysuk puts up 150 points next year and Z puts up 145, lidstrom dominates with a +200 and 110 points and kovalchuk puts in 110 pts and leads the thrashers to first place in their divison etc, i think kovalchuk would win.

I do not think any redwing player will win hart or pearson as they have a great "team", any 1 player can come out of the lineup and they would still be a great team.

Wow hate trying to type while working i lose track of where i was going, guess it was this.

If you win the cup then any other rewards are just icing on the cup, i am sure anyone would trade in either a hart or a CS or a norris or whatever for 1 stanley cup ring

[Opie 308]

What.The f***.Does that have to do with anything?

You do know Zeta's Smythe is a replica, right? Ergo, it's "retired" as well?

Nice try, he is awarded the Trophy and then takes a replica home!

The point was your post said that the Hart was the most prestigious trophy, that was retired. If you are basing anything off of the quote you should take the whole thing into consideration, because what they are talking about is something from the past not the current. And I already posted in the past yes the Hart to me would have been the most prestigious because it was given to the best player, right now it is given to the best offensive player.

To me bar none the best hockey player in the world right now, regardless of potential, is Nick Lidstrom, yet where did he finish on the list of voting, 4th. Why because his offensive numbers where not good enough, that is simply it, not because he isn't the best player!

I still contest you can not be the best player in the league if when your team gets a bench minor the coach puts you in the box as his first option, I believe to be the most valuable player in the league you score, kill penalties, set up other players, you should be one of the top minute getters on your team. AO does some of those things, but Z does a lot of them comparably and yet still finds his way on the ice for every single possible situation. Not just where his offensive talents see it fit! You can blame that on the coach if you want, but I don't look at AO and see anything that screams put me on the PK coach!

My problem is not with the history or the award but the current status of the award which unfortunately tarnishes the prestige of the award.

[Opie 308]

I love your tenacity arguing for the unprovable. Here's something that is provable: Kris Draper's line completely shut down Malkin in the Finals. Detroit's defense was 100x better than Philly's, New York's or Ottawa's. It wasn't because Malkin was in a "pressure" situation. It wasn't because Malkin decided to kick ass for 3 rounds, then when the Finals came around he said "Oh s***. I'm a *****. Time to stop trying. I can't ******* handle this pressure playing in the Finals..The world - it's too big! I'm a peabrained moron who can't....play...hockey...in...June!" Do you realize how ******* ridiculous you sound when you try and suggest something like that?

NO he said his legs were toast and he was tired!!!!!!!

Edit:

Regardless if you want to credit the defense than fine, but if he can be shut down by Draper's line yet Crosby who was facing two Conn Smythe trophy finalist how come he was able to perform?

See just like you can counter prove my points I can do the same, hence the fact this is an opinion

Edited June 13, 2008 by Opie

[06TJSport 0]

Pearson, to be voted the best by your peers is far more prestigious than anything else you can win.

[Opie 308]

Absolutely agree.

Some folks just do not undertand what 'prestige' means.

Instead of insinuating that people are dumb or piggy backing off of someone else's post with a thank you or a why don't you post something meaningful!

I am fully aware of what the word prestige means, however since I have a different opinion than you I somehow don't know the meaning of a word?

I gave my reasons for why the award HAS LOST PRESTIGE, take a page out of Probie for 5's book and at least prove what I said to be different than what I said.

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

Regardless if you want to credit the defense than fine, but if he can be shut down by Draper's line yet Crosby who was facing two Conn Smythe trophy finalist how come he was able to perform?

Because..he..got..the...bounces? The lucky breaks(like the puck Stuart foolishly passed to Zetterberg's foot)? The plays you need to make when the opportunity presents itself? Plays that didn't present themselves to Malkin?

NO he said his legs were toast and he was tired!!!!!!!

Boom! That settles it! He was tired, and everybody else was fresh as can be waiting for 10 more games to start. Puuuuuuhlleeeeezzzzeee.

See just like you can counter prove my points I can do the same, hence the fact this is an opinion

The problem is your points seem to be completely void of rationality or substance and full of unprovable nuances and ridiculously small sample sizes.

[Opie 308]

So counter prove my point that I said about the award losing prestige because it is no longer given to the best player in the game.

There is no way AO is a better all around player than Lids or Z or even Dats for that matter.

I will give you that Dats is probably the closest of the three to AO because he doesn't see as much PK time as the other 2.

However as I said I think 3 times now, when WAS got a bench minor all year Boudrea (coach of the year) put AO in the box, he wasn't forced to that was his choice.

How much ice time does AO see on the PK.

If he is the most valuable player on the team why isn't he on the ice when the team would need its best and most valuable player?

The award is now given to the best offensive player unless, like I already said, a goalie completely dominates the opposition. It is given to a defenseman, that in your own words, only won because it was a down offensive year.

Things like that shouldn't matter, if he is the MVP he should be the MVP whether offense is up or down, if a guys scores 65 goals, plays no short handed situations and is for all intense and purposes a defensive liability he should not beat out a defenseman with 70+ points, who plays every single situation or a forward who has 100+ points who plays in every single situation.

EDIT:

What part of the MVP voting process takes into consideration lucky bounces, is there also an algorithm for when the goalie is completely out of position, how about own goals, are those taken into consideration too? What about break aways where a bad line change leads to a one on 0, or is just goals and point totals?

oh oh what about this,

A guy, for sake of argument lets use Malkin, is absolutely creamed in his offensive end, slow to get up, ******* at the ref, never makes it to the defensive zone, his player steals the puck and passes it to him as he stands at center ice, then on a 1 - 0 he blasts a laser of a slap shot 5 hole, does he get bonus points for that, or is that just a regular goal. What about the open nets he missed do those also count in your lucky bounce algorithm?

Edited June 13, 2008 by Opie

[Slave 31]

Without AO, wash would have been doubtful to make the playoffs, and the stands would be 1/2 empty, and unless they were playing the leafs they would not be on highlight shows either; he is the most valuable player on his team by far, but the nhl doesn't look at that they look at his 65 goals, Not saying AO did not deserve the award just saying he won it for the wrong reason, he got the hart for the same reason he got the AR.

just my opinion though

[redwinger4747 6]

Hey everybody, think about this in terms of getting just ONE SINGLE award. Of course Hasek's 6 Vezina's AND 2 Hart's are better than Cam Ward's 1 Smythe. And of course winning a Smythe does not automatically make you better than someone who hasn't won the Smythe. But imagine if a player only won ONE award, period. This is how I see it:

1 Smythe > 1 Hart

1 Smythe > 1 Pearson

1 Smythe > 1 Vezina

1 Smythe > 1 Norris

I respect everyone who disagrees because I understand how others can see it differently.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Noone, but unfortunately, since most people have been ESPNified and think there's something magical and mystical about the postseason, and regular season performances mean nothing, and David Eckstein is better than Arod, and Peyton WAS a choke and sucked until he won a Super Bowl and became good...they automatically go into nonsense-mode when a shred of rationality is bestowed upon their "REGULAR SEASON IS MEANINGLESS! THE PLAYOFFS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS AND IF AROD OR OVECHKIN NEVER WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS THAN ITS THEIR OWN ******* FAULT!"

ESPNified??

You really think that the importance of the playoffs and the Stanley Cup is the product of ESPN-esque hype?

If the playoffs weren't more important than the regular season, they'd award the championship to the regular season leader.

[Opie 308]

Without AO, wash would have been doubtful to make the playoffs, and the stands would be 1/2 empty, and unless they were playing the leafs they would not be on highlight shows either; he is the most valuable player on his team by far, but the nhl doesn't look at that they look at his 65 goals, Not saying AO did not deserve the award just saying he won it for the wrong reason, he got the hart for the same reason he got the AR.

just my opinion though

Seriously if this was the reason he was given the MVP I would be all for it, but to me it is blatantly obvious it was given to him for being the first player in how many years to break the 60 goal mark.

[Opie 308]

BTW, I will correct myself and say that Feds won the Hart based on what he did for the team, he was a defensive beast, he was an offensive beast.

I also offer this up:

If the Hart was given after the playoffs and playoffs were taken into consideration, then the Hart to me would be more prestigious because it takes into consideration being the MVP of the regular season and the playoffs.

[DatsMyWings13 4]

Conn Smythe followed by the Pearson Award.