Lidstrom & Hart Trophy Voting

[HomeNugget 2]

Hart Trophy's description can say what it wants so fans can argue, it gets awarded to the BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. Period. There is no BEST PLAYER award so that's what the Hart is used for. Sure one good player on a s*** team looks better but in the end it is the top player in the league that wins it.

There is a best player award. It's called the Lester B. Pearson.

[jawbreaker 0]

You have a flawed understanding of the term MVP if you believe the MVP award should be awarded to the best player no matter who his teammates are or how well his team would have done without him.

There is a fundamental difference between best player and MVP. Best player is simply the player who performed the best. MVP is the player whose individual impact made the greatest tangible difference in his team's results over what they would have accomplished without him. Typically, this means players on stacked teams (teams with several players in the 'best player' conversation) and players on bottom feeders are much less likely to win the Hart, because their individual impact on their team's result is reduced either through the team being terrible with them being present, or the team being great in their absence.

Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and likely Sidney Crosby in the future are the only players I can think of offhand who will win Hart trophies despite playing with other elite level talent over players who had arguably better seasons on weaker teams.

The reason the Hart trophy is typically awarded to a forward is because the NHL doesn't have an award like the Norris or Vezina for forwards. We would see better representation from those two positions if there was a 'most outstanding forward' award created.

So why these guys won those awards despite playing on the stacked teams, and Lidstrom for example hasn't cracked top3? I think we know the answer.

Why Iginla is in top3, and Datsyuk is miles behind?

One thing is that Datsyuk plays on the stacked team. But Iginla has also a decent support (Dion was in a run for Norris). Iginla had one more point than Datsyuk, but he doesn't play in every situation. He doesn't play on the PK, he takes more penalties, he doesn't make linemates a lot better.

Datsyuk is also leading his team in points, and at the same time he is a our shut-down guy. He doesn't spend much time in the box, instead of that if needed he killls penalties.

So, who is more valuable to his team: player who provides a lot of offense, or a player who provides also a lot of offense AND does everything else?

[eva unit zero 271]

So why these guys won those awards despite playing on the stacked teams, and Lidstrom for example hasn't cracked top3? I think we know the answer.

Why Iginla is in top3, and Datsyuk is miles behind?

One thing is that Datsyuk plays on the stacked team. But Iginla has also a decent support (Dion was in a run for Norris). Iginla had one more point than Datsyuk, but he doesn't play in every situation. He doesn't play on the PK, he takes more penalties, he doesn't make linemates a lot better.

Datsyuk is also leading his team in points, and at the same time he is a our shut-down guy. He doesn't spend much time in the box, instead of that if needed he killls penalties.

So, who is more valuable to his team: player who provides a lot of offense, or a player who provides also a lot of offense AND does everything else?

Datsyuk wasn't even the best player on his line last year. Hard to argue him as the league's MVP.

[jawbreaker 0]

There is a best player award. It's called the Lester B. Pearson.

The only difference between Pearson and Hart is that Pearson is voted by the players. Hart is voted by the writes.

[jawbreaker 0]

Datsyuk wasn't even the best player on his line last year. Hard to argue him as the league's MVP.

I don't tell that Datsyuk should have won the league MVP. I just wonder why he was miles behind Iginla in voting. Ovechkin deserved his Hart, and I don't even question that.

So Zetterberg had a stronger Regular season than Datsyuk? You must be joking, Zetterberg at best was as good as Datsyuk. But you can't say that he was better than Datsyuk. No way.

[HomeNugget 2]

The only difference between Pearson and Hart is that Pearson is voted by the players. Hart is voted by the writes.

No. The main difference is the Pearson is awarded annually to the NHL's outstanding player in the regular season as judged by the members of the NHLPA.

The Hart is awarded annually to the player adjudged most valuable to his team in the NHL.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Actually you are missing my point.

Would Atlanta performed a lot better with Ovechkin instead of Kovalchuk? I don't think so. Would Washington performed a lot worse with Kovalchuk? I don't think so. So that means Ovechkin's teammates made him MVP? I guess so.

Are you serious? This hypothetical argument is ridiculous. You don't know with any certainty what would have happened if any of these players played on other teams. The award is given out for reality, ie what happened. It's not some fantasy award in some make-believe, hypothetical, what if scenario.

And another point about Iginla. You ask why Iginla was miles ahead of Datsyuk in voting? Your problem is you are analyzing it on an elementary level like Iggy had only 1 more point so they should have been closer in the standings. Please, my daughter is 6 and can think outside the box more than that.

Compare the Wings and the Flames. You take Datsyuk out of our lineup and the Wings probably still win the Central and certainly still make the playoffs considering they still have Zetterberg and Lidstrom, Rafalski and basically the deepest team in the league.

You take Iggy off of the Flames and the Flames don't even make the playoffs.

Are you getting the gist of what the MVP is awarded for? That's why Iggy got way more votes than Dats. Because a Flames team with no IGGY is a mediocre/average team at best. A Wings team without Datsyuk is still stacked.

[Opie 308]

Are you serious? This hypothetical argument is ridiculous. You don't know with any certainty what would have happened if any of these players played on other teams. The award is given out for reality, ie what happened. It's not some fantasy award in some make-believe, hypothetical, what if scenario.

And another point about Iginla. You ask why Iginla was miles ahead of Datsyuk in voting? Your problem is you are analyzing it on an elementary level like Iggy had only 1 more point so they should have been closer in the standings. Please, my daughter is 6 and can think outside the box more than that.

Compare the Wings and the Flames. You take Datsyuk out of our lineup and the Wings probably still win the Central and certainly still make the playoffs considering they still have Zetterberg and Lidstrom, Rafalski and basically the deepest team in the league.

You take Iggy off of the Flames and the Flames don't even make the playoffs.

Are you getting the gist of what the MVP is awarded for? That's why Iggy got way more votes than Dats. Because a Flames team with no IGGY is a mediocre/average team at best. A Wings team without Datsyuk is still stacked.

Did you just s*** on a poster for throwing out a hypothetical that can not be proved and then throw one out yourself.

One name:

Alex Rodriguez, he left Texas and they became better. Not saying Iggy is A-rod just saying your situation is just as hypothetical as the other posters

[jawbreaker 0]

Well... I'm just saying, that Hart voting results are depending too much of the team performance. What if Washington were just couple of points short last year? Team doesn't make the playoffs, and Ovechkin is not deserving Hart? That scenario almost happened.

IMHO everybody are looking too much at the team performance, and the team-mates. Wanna burn me for that? Good luck.

[eva unit zero 271]

I don't tell that Datsyuk should have won the league MVP. I just wonder why he was miles behind Iginla in voting.

Because voting was for league MVP...Datsyuk was not even close to in the running for that award as he was at best the second most valuable player on his team.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Did you just s*** on a poster for throwing out a hypothetical that can not be proved and then throw one out yourself.

One name:

Alex Rodriguez, he left Texas and they became better. Not saying Iggy is A-rod just saying your situation is just as hypothetical as the other posters

LOL. Opie, I don't do hypotheticals. Know why? Because I fecking know everything! HA! Deal with that! j/k

I'd bet my handsome salary that if Iggy went down to injury tomorrow the Flames would be going down in Flames. A hypothetical, sure technically. But pretty fecking common sensical as well.