Jiri Hudler

[YoungGuns1340 1]

How's the saying go? You're only as good as the company around you?? I like Huds and all, but I'd be interested to see how he'd perform on a first line with a team that doesn't have the talent of the Wings. Teams would most likely play tighter defense on him as well, and I don't see him doing as well as he does here.

So hes only as good as Sammy and Filppula? Thats interesting.

Scenario 1) Hudler on a top line. Pro? He has MUCH better linemates than Sammy and Filppula at even strength. Con? Hes facing tighter checking.

Scenario 2) Hudler on a 3rd line. Pro? Hes not facing tight checking. Con? Hes playing with much leser linemates than 1st liners.

The only difference here is that if Hudler were on the 1st line, he'd be getting MUCH more ice time than he does, probably by a good 3-4 minutes per game. In short, yes, Hudler isnt facing tight checking, but he isnt getting a ton of minutes nor is he playing with great even strength linemates. And the fact that hes on pace for 65-70 points alone is basically what you'd expect from a great 2nd liner, or 1st line forward on a shallow team. And hes still developing.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

So hes only as good as Sammy and Filppula? Thats interesting.

Scenario 1) Hudler on a top line. Pro? He has MUCH better linemates than Sammy and Filppula at even strength. Con? Hes facing tighter checking.

Scenario 2) Hudler on a 3rd line. Pro? Hes not facing tight checking. Con? Hes playing with much leser linemates than 1st liners.

The only difference here is that if Hudler were on the 1st line, he'd be getting MUCH more ice time than he does, probably by a good 3-4 minutes per game. In short, yes, Hudler isnt facing tight checking, but he isnt getting a ton of minutes nor is he playing with great even strength linemates. And the fact that hes on pace for 65-70 points alone is basically what you'd expect from a great 2nd liner, or 1st line forward on a shallow team. And hes still developing.

You're making good points, but you're also giving the impression that Huds is playing 100% of the time with Sammy and Flip. 14 of his 34 points (41%) are on the PP unit with players superior to both of the aforementioned. None the less, I think Huds is a great player and maybe hasn't hit his peak in ability, however you can't take away from the fact that nearly half his production is spent on the ice with some of the best forwards in the league.

Edited January 14, 2009 by ManLuv4Clears

[Opie 308]

You're making good points, but you're also giving the impression that Huds is playing 100% of the time with Sammy and Flip. 14 of his 34 points (41%) are on the PP unit with players superior to both of the aforementioned. None the less, I think Huds is a great player and maybe hasn't hit his peak in ability, however you can't take away from the fact that nearly half his production is spent on the ice with some of the best forwards in the league.

UMM who is on his PP that is one of the best forwards in the league.

You say some of, that indicates plural, last I saw he was playing on a pp with Z (give you that one), Mule (lets not get ahead of ourselves here, a couple of partial seasons added together to make one great season doesn't count for a nearly 30 year old), Sammy and Kronwall, when there are no injuries. Correct? If I am wrong I will admit it!!!

It is not like he is on the 1st PP with Hossa and Dats not to mention Lids and Ralf.

So lets say he has 14% of his points on the PP, does it really %$#@&^% matter!

He is scoring when he has the opportunity, if he scored all of his goals on ES and had no goals on the PP people would *****.

He is on the PP, the pp's job is to score, he is scoring, therefore he is helping the team and PP do their job.

Jesus you people are so hard to satisfy, he is playing a ppg level right now and you want to complain because 41.2356897646475654% of his goals are on the PP!

WHAT!!!

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

UMM who is on his PP that is one of the best forwards in the league.

You say some of, that indicates plural, last I saw he was playing on a pp with Z (give you that one), Mule (lets not get ahead of ourselves here, a couple of partial seasons added together to make one great season doesn't count for a nearly 30 year old), Sammy and Kronwall, when there are no injuries. Correct? If I am wrong I will admit it!!!

It is not like he is on the 1st PP with Hossa and Dats not to mention Lids and Ralf.

So lets say he has 14% of his points on the PP, does it really %$#@&^% matter!

He is scoring when he has the opportunity, if he scored all of his goals on ES and had no goals on the PP people would *****.

He is on the PP, the pp's job is to score, he is scoring, therefore he is helping the team and PP do their job.

Jesus you people are so hard to satisfy, he is playing a ppg level right now and you want to complain because 41.2356897646475654% of his goals are on the PP!

WHAT!!!

Okay Opie, you're normally a pretty respectable poster, so I'll refrain from jumping on your case. But, have you even read the correspondance between YG's posts and mine. There isn't a single spot where either one of us were bitching about Hudler's production or anything about him in general. He responded to my point where I said I don't think Huds would be as productive on another team that doesn't have the talent around him, them I responded back. I'll go back and try and decipher how that translates to me not wanting Huds on the team as well as being unsatisfied with his play. Take it how you want. While you're at it take a deep breath for me. You've taken the whole bitchin' about people bitchin' to a whole new level of bitchin' about people who aren't even bitchin'.

[Opie 308]

Okay Opie, you're normally a pretty respectable poster, so I'll refrain from jumping on your case. But, have you even read the correspondance between YG's posts and mine. There isn't a single spot where either one of us were bitching about Hudler's production or anything about him in general. He responded to my point where I said I don't think Huds would be as productive on another team that doesn't have the talent around him, them I responded back. I'll go back and try and decipher how that translates to me not wanting Huds on the team as well as being unsatisfied with his play. Take it how you want. While you're at it take a deep breath for me. You've taken the whole bitchin' about people bitchin' to a whole new level of bitchin' about people who aren't even bitchin'.

My bad then.

EDIT: Not trying to argue with you or get into this debate, just stating my thoughts on HUDS, they are as much my opinion as yours, please don't read this as though I am trying to disprove your opinion.

However; even after re-reading it seems like you are trying to qualify Hulders play by saying that 41% of his points come from playing with multiple top flight players, which is wrong, he still only plays with Z.

Plus his production IF he were on another team going down is as much your opinion and not fact as me or YG or Eva or NFM25 or Snepts or GS&T or anyone else's opinion on the matter not a fact. Who knows he could go to another team hell lets take LA, put him on a line with O'Sullivan and Frolov or Kopitar and you think he wont produce.

PHO put him on Olli's line.

It is not like Detroit cornered the market on top flight players.

s*** put him on Boston's line up line 1 or 2 and he is producing, let him take Ryder's spot on line 2 (was his spot) or Lucic's on line 1( Lucic is on line 3 when on the ice now) and I bet he produces. Again all opinion!

My point remains the same (without the needless rant) that your argument that the results of putting him on another team is a non fact and that you are trying really hard to find something to use as a negative for him if you are using the fact that 41% of his points are PP.

I truly believe if you put him or Flip on another team where they can be (edit: part of) the focal point of attack and they will be a lot better than they are. Both have played against top flight talent in the regular season and the post season and it has not slowed their games once. I am not saying Atlanta can trade Kovie and sign Hudler and it will be a wash, that is just silly, but that if he were to be used along side of a Kovie he would excel. He is a very very good complimentary piece at this point in his career, and along side of a top flight player he would provide a lot. He is not the piece you build around, I agree with you on that, however as a complimentary piece he has already PROVEN to be a top 6 forward on a cup winning roster. To me that says a lot.

IF I am still missing your point I apologize!!!

While you're at it take a deep breath for me. You've taken the whole bitchin' about people bitchin' to a whole new level of bitchin' about people who aren't even bitchin'.

I have my good days and bad days and sometimes I get caught up in all of the bitchin' and then lash out. Sorry about that I never even looked to see who was posting the statements, just saw YG's comments and yours with out looking to see who posted. Again, My bad! But I never stated you wanted him off of the team, I did say you were bitching, but I never said you wanted him gone or that he was worthless, for the record.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Opie

[cnot19 191]

I think he would do just fine on another team; though I really hope we never see it!

I dont want to see it either as long as he doesnt ask for too much money or keep us from signing Franzen or Zetterberg, I owuld like to see him come back.

[cnot19 191]

I truly believe if you put him or Flip on another team where they can be (edit: part of) the focal point of attack and they will be a lot better than they are. Both have played against top flight talent in the regular season and the post season and it has not slowed their games once. I am not saying Atlanta can trade Kovie and sign Hudler and it will be a wash, that is just silly, but that if he were to be used along side of a Kovie he would excel. He is a very very good complimentary piece at this point in his career, and along side of a top flight player he would provide a lot. He is not the piece you build around, I agree with you on that, however as a complimentary piece he has already PROVEN to be a top 6 forward on a cup winning roster. To me that says a lot.

Thats exactly what I see in him. And he fits in well with the wings. A great finisher.

[egroen 384]

I dont want to see it either as long as he doesnt ask for too much money or keep us from signing Franzen or Zetterberg, I owuld like to see him come back.

If Franzen is demanding close to $5 million and Hudler would sign for under $3 million, my mind is made up which way I would like to see Holland go. I just see Franzen, given his history, as a tough one to sign. I would prefer not to lose both Hudler and Filppula for him... especially when we already have Cleary locked up.