Need to get Hudler/Franzen signed long term.

[wingslionstigers 12]

We need to get Hudler and Franzen signed long term for about 5-6 years. We can pick Huds up cheap at around 3 mill a year. Hudler seems to have the potential and drive to become a great player in the next year or two. He could potentially bring in a value of 4.5-5.5 mill a season. In this league you need to get the most out of every dime of your cap space. Every player needs to be a somewhat steal for his price to put a team over the top. This is a start.

Franzen on the other hand i think he has alot of potential to become better than he is now but at the same time im just not sure about him. I do think hes overrated throughout the Wings fan base. Although he definitely wouldn't be a bad player to have for around 3.5mill a season. There is no way he is worth more than that at his rate of play this season. Stats don't mean s***, just because hes got about as many points as Zetterberg doesn't mean hes near as good as Zetterberg.

After signing them we have all the depth you need for our first 2 lines. Now we got a core. Holland will have these guys signed thats a fact. We all know the Red Wings are rebuilding and looking for a long term core with the new cap era.

In the following years we defiantly need to get a good grindline together. We need a line that can come out hit, drop the gloves if need be, and prevent the other team from scoring. Maltpy is probably going to choose to retire after this season, Draper will probably stick around a couple more years which isnt a bad thing. We just really need a line that can go out face the other teams first or second line and shut them down. That way we can get our top dogs out there against some weaker units on a more regular basis.

[up2here 41]

Ill take Hossa for what Hudler and Franzen would make.

[wingslionstigers 12]

You would take Hossa for the same price as Hudler/Franzen combined? So what your saying is you would take Hossas 26 goals/50 points over Hudler/Franzens 39goals/73 points

Edited February 3, 2009 by wingslionstigers

[Casey 145]

Ill take Hossa for what Hudler and Franzen would make.

I'll take the depth over the single star. One injury kills a lot more offense if you have Hossa, than if you have Huds/Mule.

The way Huds is developing, though... the lad could be scary good in a few years.

[talex 1]

We need to get Hudler and Franzen signed long term for about 5-6 years. We can pick Huds up cheap at around 3 mill a year. Hudler seems to have the potential and drive to become a great player in the next year or two. He could potentially bring in a value of 4.5-5.5 mill a season. In this league you need to get the most out of every dime of your cap space. Every player needs to be a somewhat steal for his price to put a team over the top. This is a start.

Franzen on the other hand i think he has alot of potential to become better than he is now but at the same time im just not sure about him. I do think hes overrated throughout the Wings fan base. Although he definitely wouldn't be a bad player to have for around 3.5mill a season. There is no way he is worth more than that at his rate of play this season. Stats don't mean s***, just because hes got about as many points as Zetterberg doesn't mean hes near as good as Zetterberg.

After signing them we have all the depth you need for our first 2 lines. Now we got a core. Holland will have these guys signed thats a fact. We all know the Red Wings are rebuilding and looking for a long term core with the new cap era.

In the following years we defiantly need to get a good grindline together. We need a line that can come out hit, drop the gloves if need be, and prevent the other team from scoring. Maltpy is probably going to choose to retire after this season, Draper will probably stick around a couple more years which isnt a bad thing. We just really need a line that can go out face the other teams first or second line and shut them down. That way we can get our top dogs out there against some weaker units on a more regular basis.

With another Hossa show last night, I am not so sure that this should be the core. I like both players but would prefer to go long term with Hoss if at all possible. Hoss does not have the injury history Franzen has and Jiri is a tad small especially on this team which lacks size, not to mention no matter which of the 2 (Franzen or Hossa) gets signed Jiri is not a sure thing to sign depending on what other teams are willing to offer. I do not think we can loose either way and it will really boil down to which of the 2 wants to be in Detroit the most. No Franzen and No Jiri (and Flip for that matter) with a Hossa and Helm is just as good if not better than No Hossa with Franzen and Hudler... In a perfect no cap world we would have all 3 and cash for some better D men and a Goalie, but unfortunately that is not the world we live in... I cannot even imagine the jump this team would get if Kenny comes out (like he has hinted at) and annonces the long term signing of Hossa before the playoffs... it would be huge.

[up2here 41]

I'll take the depth over the single star. One injury kills a lot more offense if you have Hossa, than if you have Huds/Mule.

The way Huds is developing, though... the lad could be scary good in a few years.

Dont get me wrong, I think the world of Franzen and I beleive Huds is a good player too but pure goal scorers who play at both ends are very very rare which Hossa is. I think we can get cheaper alternatives to Hudler and Franzen.

[Yzerman191 37]

I agree with the other posters; depth is more important than having three big stars. Look at the Penguins, for example. They have two of the best centers in the league, and they're the only ones putting up points. Another good example (complete one line team) would be the Senators. People seem to forget we just won a Cup with the same roster, but without Hossa.

Having Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Cleary, Flip, Leino (hopefully), Hudler, and Franzen isn't too shabby. Pick up a tough guy or two and we have it all: play-making, goal scoring, speed, skill, grit, depth, etc. Of course, this post is assuming Franzen doesn't try to get Malone-like money, and nobody hands Hudler a Penner-like offer sheet.

[wingslionstigers 12]

Get cheaper alts of Hudler and Franzen? Like who? You guys act like you can just pick top 6 caliber players off of a tree. If you could get these players you speak of so easily why don't the Islanders go out and get them and make the playoffs this year if its that easy?

What are you going to say Leino/Helm?? Okay yeah Leino looks like he can put up a few points if hes paired with Dats and Hossa. Anyone can. Now look at it this way. If you make a second line out of Leino/Flip/Helm and make a second line of Hudler/Flip/Franzen. Don't even try an tell me you think this line would come anywhere near Huds/Franz. Leino and Helm playing a second line role together would finish the season with a +/- negative rating with probably about 35-40 points a peace tops. So those are our top prospects which will not beable to fill the role of Huds/Franzen in an anyway period. So who are these guys your talking about?

[wingslionstigers 12]

On top of that some of you guys are failing to realize Hudler and Franzen are going to get better. There going to be better next season. Hudlers been improving drastically.

[talex 1]

All this talk about Depth, but I do not think it is realistic the way it is being depicted. Franzen and Hudler together will cost more than Hossa alone. Rumors put Franzen at anywhere from 4mil to 5 or even 5.5. Hudler at anywhere from 3 to 4 also depending on where you read. We also have several good forwards in GR. I think it hinges on what Hossa is willing to accept. Depth could be Franzen/Hudler or Hossa/Helm or Hossa/Leino, again if they can for sure get Jiri signed which I just do not feel is a much a given as it would seem other posters are willing to accept. Again we cannot go wrong either way and as much as I like Franzen and Hudler I would still rather have Hoss and either Jiri if possible or Hoss and Helm/Leino. I also know that unless they loose both, we will be in good shape.

[Guest mindfly]

No let franzen go and keep hossa, just me two... franzen hasn't prooved himself, hossa has been elite for 12years, speaks for itself.

[wingslionstigers 12]

Franzen is not worth 5.5 mill a season whoever is apart of them rumors are on crack. He may be down the road but he will not see a 5.5 mill contract. Your looking at 3.5-4 at max. Hudler will player for probably a little over 3 mill a season. Thats 6.5-7.3 mill a season max for them two. Hossa isn't going to be signed a 12 year contract like Zetterberg to keep the price low. If there was ever to be negotiations of a Hossa contract your talking 4-6 years at 7.3-7.8 a year. No them numbers arent fact but they are most realistic.

[up2here 41]

Get cheaper alts of Hudler and Franzen? Like who? You guys act like you can just pick top 6 caliber players off of a tree. If you could get these players you speak of so easily why don't the Islanders go out and get them and make the playoffs this year if its that easy?

What are you going to say Leino/Helm?? Okay yeah Leino looks like he can put up a few points if hes paired with Dats and Hossa. Anyone can. Now look at it this way. If you make a second line out of Leino/Flip/Helm and make a second line of Hudler/Flip/Franzen. Don't even try an tell me you think this line would come anywhere near Huds/Franz. Leino and Helm playing a second line role together would finish the season with a +/- negative rating with probably about 35-40 points a peace tops. So those are our top prospects which will not beable to fill the role of Huds/Franzen in an anyway period. So who are these guys your talking about?

First of all if we keep Hossa then Zetterberg centers my second line with any combination of Leino/Cleary/Filppula/Helm/Samuelsson,and yes I think that line could easily equal the production of Hudler/Flip/Franzen. Second your prediction of Leino or Helm getting 35 points and a minus rating is just that--YOUR prediction. As for bringing up the Islanders skill in evaluating talent then you could also say why didnt they draft Zetterberg or Franzen or Datsyuk? Its not easy but the Wings have proven they evaluate talent better than anyone. Losing Franzen would be tough but Hossa is better and we can replace Hudler.

[wingslionstigers 12]

Anyways whatever you guys think about Hossa doesn't matter its not what this topics about. Hossa has about a 4% chance to be signed by the Wings. They will not let 2 of there top built prospects go to keep a single player that they picked up off free agency. Its not going to happen.

The topic is about how good of a bargain these 2 players could be on a long term contract if they continue to improve.

[up2here 41]

Anyways whatever you guys think about Hossa doesn't matter its not what this topics about. Hossa has about a 4% chance to be signed by the Wings. They will not let 2 of there top built prospects go to keep a single player that they picked up off free agency. Its not going to happen.

The topic is about how good of a bargain these 2 players could be on a long term contract if they continue to improve.

You seem very sure,but if youre wrong these words will be thrown in your face here. Be ready.

[wingslionstigers 12]

First of all if we keep Hossa then Zetterberg centers my second line with any combination of Leino/Cleary/Filppula/Helm/Samuelsson,and yes I think that line could easily equal the production of Hudler/Flip/Franzen. Second your prediction of Leino or Helm getting 35 points and a minus rating is just that--YOUR prediction. As for bringing up the Islanders skill in evaluating talent then you could also say why didnt they draft Zetterberg or Franzen or Datsyuk? Its not easy but the Wings have proven they evaluate talent better than anyone. Losing Franzen would be tough but Hossa is better and we can replace Hudler.

Okay well you can say that but i can say this. Zetterberg/Dats/Holms 1st line. 2nd line Franzen/Flip/Hudler, 3rd line Cleary/Helm/Leino, 4th line ?/Draper/Abs. It just makes to much sense. Look how strong of a 2nd/3rd line we would have. We are already looking at bringing up Leino, Helm, Abdelkader, Ericsson next season. We cant afford another rookie on our roster.

[up2here 41]

Okay well you can say that but i can say this. Zetterberg/Dats/Holms 1st line. 2nd line Franzen/Flip/Hudler, 3rd line Cleary/Helm/Leino, 4th line ?/Draper/Abs. It just makes to much sense. Look how strong of a 2nd/3rd line we would have. We are already looking at bringing up Leino, Helm, Abdelkader, Ericsson next season. We cant afford another rookie on our roster.

Dont forget they could add someone via free agency that makes less than Hudler that would get his point total or close to it.

[wingslionstigers 12]

Anything can happen but not likely. I don't know if you know to much about our cap space Situation. We are looking at loosing Sammy on top of all this. Theres 2 ways Sammy could stay. 1; Take the same or less pay. 2; We don't sign Hossa, try to sign Huds/Franzen but loose them. Then Sammy gets signed as a last resort. Your really not going to find anything on free agency that can play like Hudler for less. The Wings have to much depth on there current team and AHL team to go off and sign free agents and loose there built prospects. The only free agent signings we might see on this team in the next couple years is likely a Drake type veteran player to play a 3rd/4th line role.

[Z and D for the C 712]

If we can not trade flip and keep hossa, even if franzen and huds have to walk I'm okay with that.

ZDH

Leino - flip - hossa

Or if we can trade flip and keep either franzen or huds, I'm down as well.

Hossa is just so amazing though. :<

Edited February 3, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[up2here 41]

Anything can happen but not likely. I don't know if you know to much about our cap space Situation. We are looking at loosing Sammy on top of all this. Theres 2 ways Sammy could stay. 1; Take the same or less pay. 2; We don't sign Hossa, try to sign Huds/Franzen but loose them. Then Sammy gets signed as a last resort. Your really not going to find anything on free agency that can play like Hudler for less. The Wings have to much depth on there current team and AHL team to go off and sign free agents and loose there built prospects. The only free agent signings we might see on this team in the next couple years is likely a Drake type veteran player to play a 3rd/4th line role.

I am well aware of our cap situation so please dont talk to me like I'm an idiot,Ive been a Wings fan a long time. I also think Hudler is a 3rd liner but heres a list of upcoming UFA's who would all likely want less than Hudlers expected 3 - 3.5 mil:

Petr Sykora

Brendan Morrison

Jason Williams

Ales Kotalik

Richard Zednik

Doug Weight

Sergei Fedorov

Viktor Kozlov

Im also sure thats not all of them because I just quickly scanned the numbers. Anyone of those players on a one year contract could put up numbers good enough to replace Hudler if it means keeeping Hossa.

[wingslionstigers 12]

Dude were trying to build a core right now. Not loose our top prospects to sign guys out of there prime that will only be here for minimal years. The only way your going to build a contending team for many years in this cap world is to take chances like we did with flip. What if Flip would have turned into what we expected of him? We would have a star player for 3 mill a year. We need to sign up guys like Hudler/Franzen for 5-6 years for a fairly low salary and hope they turn out as good as we think they can be. Hudler and Franz both have the potential to be great players. Right now there good, if you can lock them up as good players for several years and they turn into great players. Then all suddenly you got 4 superstar forwards on one hockey team that has enough cap room to lock up 3rd/4th line depth. Thats the only way in this cap world you are ever going to beable to pull something like that off. Thats the only way you are going to be able to truly get ahead of the other great teams in the league. I'm not saying that these guys are going to be the next Dats/Z but they have the potential to be pretty damn good hockey players. They have the potential to not only give us the best 1st and 2nd line in the league. But the option to beable to afford to have one of the best 3rd lines in the league. If we signed them and they got better in the next year or two. We got a good chance to win a couple cups in the next 6 years. See what im saying? You sign Hossa what we have is what we have. We paid big for him and hes not getting better. Now we only got 1 super star line with a second line with 1 super star player with either 2 AHL players or two 3rd line caliber players on his line.

[scotzman 29]

I am well aware of our cap situation so please dont talk to me like I'm an idiot,Ive been a Wings fan a long time. I also think Hudler is a 3rd liner but heres a list of upcoming UFA's who would all likely want less than Hudlers expected 3 - 3.5 mil:

Petr Sykora - please

Brendan Morrison - he'll be joining Burke in Toronto

Jason Williams - ummm, no thanks

Ales Kotalik - don't know enough about him

Richard Zednik - meh, not too exciting

Doug Weight - can you say over the hill?

Sergei Fedorov - please... not him again - washed up

Viktor Kozlov - interesting... gives us some size, but won't use it

Im also sure thats not all of them because I just quickly scanned the numbers. Anyone of those players on a one year contract could put up numbers good enough to replace Hudler if it means keeeping Hossa.

I like Hossa and if they can fit him in that would be great, but there are not a lot of guys that would produce the way Huds does with the limited minutes he gets. I would really like to keep him... Franzen seems like the odd man out to me.

On top of all that, they need to bring up guys like Helm, Leino and Abdelkader next year... plus Ericsson!

[up2here 41]

Dude were trying to build a core right now. Not loose our top prospects to sign guys out of there prime that will only be here for minimal years. The only way your going to build a contending team for many years in this cap world is to take chances like we did with flip. What if Flip would have turned into what we expected of him? We would have a star player for 3 mill a year. We need to sign up guys like Hudler/Franzen for 5-6 years for a fairly low salary and hope they turn out as good as we think they can be. Hudler and Franz both have the potential to be great players. Right now there good, if you can lock them up as good players for several years and they turn into great players. Then all suddenly you got 4 superstar forwards on one hockey team that has enough cap room to lock up 3rd/4th line depth. Thats the only way in this cap world you are ever going to beable to pull something like that off. Thats the only way you are going to be able to truly get ahead of the other great teams in the league. I'm not saying that these guys are going to be the next Dats/Z but they have the potential to be pretty damn good hockey players. They have the potential to not only give us the best 1st and 2nd line in the league. But the option to beable to afford to have one of the best 3rd lines in the league. If we signed them and they got better in the next year or two. We got a good chance to win a couple cups in the next 6 years. See what im saying? You sign Hossa what we have is what we have. We paid big for him and hes not getting better. Now we only got 1 super star line with a second line with 1 super star player with either 2 AHL players or two 3rd line caliber players on his line.

I think youre over valuing Hudler and perhaps I'm valuing him too low. I still go with Hossa make due with what we have along with maybe a free agent and hope we hit on another stud in the draft.

[wingslionstigers 12]

It would be great to keep Hossa. Yeah i would love to watch Hossa play with the Wings for the next x amount of years. Maybe im valuing Huds to much maybe im not. What i see in Hudler is a pure bread Red Wings hockey player. This guy just got his confidence going this year, he has been doing nothing but shining ever sense. If him and Franz got signed, he would be given a full time 2nd line role the way the roster would be projected for next season. I think that would be huge for him. On top of just the ice time he would be more confident and feel like a bigger piece to this team.

I really think this guys going to come along ways i have high hopes for him. I think Hudlers better than Franzen. Hes got more potential and he seems more determined then alot of guys out there. I see Hudler/Franzen being a 60-70 point players from here on out if hes to stay on the Wings. Thats pretty impressive for a second line to be producing that many points along with the first line putting up anywhere from 80-100 points apiece.

Sometimes the way Hudler controls the puck and gets comfortable with it in the offensive zone amazes me. You know this guy is all over Z and D in practice and wants nothing more than to beable to play like them.

[talex 1]

No matter which way it goes in the Franzen / Hossa debate, it's a winner, the team will be a top team either way...

Whats the outlook for Lidstrom playing past his next contract? Any estimates on what he will play for if he does not retire?