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Jersey Wing

Claude Lemieux just turtled AGAIN

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Chelios was an agitator, Claude was dirty. Chelios was relentless, Claude was a thug. Chelios got in your head, Claude tried to take it off from behind. Hypocrisy BS, you're full of it. Yes, it was very hard to get used to Cheli in the beginning. No true Wings fan old enough to remember the scum bucket of a human being going by the name Claude Lemieux would EVER accept him as a Detroit Red Wing. And you want him on our roster? I hope you're 12 and just don't know any better.

You're calling me 12 after insulting me for no reason? Talk about hypocrisy at it's best.

And to say that Cheli wasn't or isn't dirty is laughable. There's a reason why he was hated so deeply by fans the world over.

Say what you want about Claude, but he has 4 Stanley Cups and a Conn Smythe trophy to boot. The man could play and was a winner on the biggest stage.

It's apparent from your post that you can't see past your Wings-colored glasses. If you could, you would recognize that the guy was a major contributor to almost every Cup he won.

I'll await another immature post from you including childish insults. It seems to be a common theme with you.

I find it quite ironic that you call someone like Claude a coward and classless and yet you feel very comfortable throwing insults at someone who never attacked you from behind the safe confines of your computer screen.

Are you sure YOU'RE not Claude Lemiuex?

Somewhere a kettle is calling a Pot black.

Edited by Hank

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You're calling me 12 after insulting me for no reason? Talk about hypocrisy at it's best.

And to say that Cheli wasn't or isn't dirty is laughable. There's a reason why he was hated so deeply by fans the world over.

Say what you want about Claude, but he has 4 Stanley Cups and a Conn Smythe trophy to boot. The man could play and was a winner on the biggest stage.

It's apparent from your post that you can't see past your Wings-colored glasses. If you could, you would recognize that the guy was a major contributor to almost every Cup he won.

I'll await another immature post from you including childish insults. It seems to be a common theme with you.

It's ironic that you call someone like Claude a coward and classless and yet you feel very comfortable throwing insults from behind the safe confines of your computer screen to someone that never came close to attacking you.

Are you sure YOU'RE not Claude Lemiuex?

I'm criticizing you and your cohorts who defend Claude Lemieux on a Red Wing fan site. And no, I feel no remorse for that. Funny though how you bring up the need to beat people up who disagree with you. At no place did I threaten anyone or say they deserve to get what Claude Lemieux dishes out or in any way bring up any personal threat directly or indirectly. Then you bring up how I'm a coward because you can't beat me up? So let's analyze the hypocrisy. I criticize and stand here to take the criticism. That's hypocrisy? How? I get what I dish out and don't whine about that. I criticize the Lemieux defenders again, but I don't say, oh boo hoo you're criticizing me like you do. I'm not seeing the hypocrisy. You're being insulted and whining that you're being insulted and lamenting you can't physically beat me up. Is that hypocrisy? Seems to be.

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This must be some sort of the use of the word "fan" I hadn't previously heard before. But bam, you did admit I was dead on, you're a wolf in wolves clothing.

You'd be surprised how many Red Wings' fans (who don't support this current team) might come out of the woodworks and start showing up at the Joe and making some noise if we actually dressed an entertaining line up that didn't shy away from any sort of physical play. Sorry I don't pretend to love anything Ken Holland throws my way... this brand of hockey isn't even remotely close to the brand I fell in love with, and I'm not willing to pretend it is like a lot of people do.

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I'm criticizing you and your cohorts who defend Claude Lemieux on a Red Wing fan site. And no, I feel no remorse for that. Funny though how you bring up the need to beat people up who disagree with you. At no place did I threaten anyone or say they deserve to get what Claude Lemieux dishes out or in any way bring up any personal threat directly or indirectly. Then you bring up how I'm a coward because you can't beat me up? So let's analyze the hypocrisy. I criticize and stand here to take the criticism. That's hypocrisy? How? I get what I dish out and don't whine about that. I criticize the Lemieux defenders again, but I don't say, oh boo hoo you're criticizing me like you do. I'm not seeing the hypocrisy. You're being insulted and whining that you're being insulted and lamenting you can't physically beat me up. Is that hypocrisy? Seems to be.

I'm asking this with 100% sincerety; what are you talking about? At what point did I threaten physical violence? I never once stated ANYTHING about 'beating anyone up'.

The 'attacks' I was referring to were how you referred to me having the comprehension of a 12 year old.

Why did you feel the need to insult me?

I understand that people aren't going to agree with everything I say and I'm cool with that. Most people are.

But why do you, or other people on this board, feel the need to not only voice their disagreement but then throw in insults at the same time - for no reason.

I would have had no problem with your post at all if you simply said "Claude Lemiuex is a thug and I don't believe any Wings fan would ever accept him in Detroit". Bang. Done.

Why the need to throw in "I hope you're a 12 year old for thinking the way you do".

Finally, my point about hiding behind a computer screen is a simple one. 95% of the arguments on this site would never, ever take place in real life. The amount of bickering or pure vicionsness I've seen on here at times never occurs in any of the day-to-day Wings-related conversations I hear or take part in.

Normally, people would be kind and courteous. But on here, because we're all not face to face, and we're sitting in our homes and protected by our anonymity, we feel it's safe and cozy to attack anyone and insult them as much as we want.

All I'm asking is that if you don't agree with someone, that there's no need to toss in a few derogatory remarks with it. Your opinion will be respected a heck of a lot more if you present it with respect.

I've gotten angry over some stupid arguments on these boards too, but I normally don't go out of my way to insult anyone when I don't agree with what they're saying. Especially if they've didn't attack me verbally in the process of presenting their view.

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You'd be surprised how many Red Wings' fans (who don't support this current team) might come out of the woodworks and start showing up at the Joe and making some noise if we actually dressed an entertaining line up that didn't shy away from any sort of physical play. Sorry I don't pretend to love anything Ken Holland throws my way... this brand of hockey isn't even remotely close to the brand I fell in love with, and I'm not willing to pretend it is like a lot of people do.

Well, how I got into this and with the back and forth I get lost between who said which quote, I got into this with the absurdity that Lemieux could beat up our entire roster. Somehow that changed to that we don't play physically enough, which is a completely different point and one that I wouldn't have gotten into this whole discussion over.

But regarding the quote, it was that the "fan" doesn't "support" the team this year. Not that the "fan" doesn't have "confidence" or "faith" we'll repeat, but that the "fan" doesn't even "support" us. A pretty strong statement. A pretty absolute statement. For gosh sake, we're the defending champs, ADDED talent and have the third best record in the league. It's not like we were more physical last year then this year. Even FAIR WEATHER fans haven't abandoned us. And yet a self declared "fan" doesn't even "support" us because we're not physical enough? That just doesn't add up. Defending Lemieux because he is a friend of the "fan" who hates us totally adds up.

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You'd be surprised how many Red Wings' fans (who don't support this current team) might come out of the woodworks and start showing up at the Joe and making some noise if we actually dressed an entertaining line up that didn't shy away from any sort of physical play. Sorry I don't pretend to love anything Ken Holland throws my way... this brand of hockey isn't even remotely close to the brand I fell in love with, and I'm not willing to pretend it is like a lot of people do.

That takes a lot of b@lls to say what you just wrote. I'm sure you'll be hammered for voicing that opinion.

But I agree with you as well.

There are lots of things to love about this team, but I too want a more physical lineup and one that features a top North American offensive star.

I also fell in love with the Wings as a kid based on the team they had in the 80's. Sure, they sucked at times, but they were rough and tumble and still had some good offensive tools to keep things interesting.

That's why I hardly find myself watching Wings games during the regular season. I've been enjoying watching other teams like Boston, Washington, Chicago, etc.

When the playoffs roll around, I'll be tuning in to every Wings game I can find.

But right now, they're not as entertaining to me as they once were.

I respect anyone that feels otherwise, but for me, I would be very happy if we could add more grit and a player similar to Jonathan Toews or Rick Nash.

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Well, how I got into this and with the back and forth I get lost between who said which quote, I got into this with the absurdity that Lemieux could beat up our entire roster. Somehow that changed to that we don't play physically enough, which is a completely different point and one that I wouldn't have gotten into this whole discussion over.

But regarding the quote, it was that the "fan" doesn't "support" the team this year. Not that the "fan" doesn't have "confidence" or "faith" we'll repeat, but that the "fan" doesn't even "support" us. A pretty strong statement. A pretty absolute statement. For gosh sake, we're the defending champs, ADDED talent and have the third best record in the league. It's not like we were more physical last year then this year. Even FAIR WEATHER fans haven't abandoned us. And yet a self declared "fan" doesn't even "support" us because we're not physical enough? That just doesn't add up. Defending Lemieux because he is a friend of the "fan" who hates us totally adds up.

You got involved in this thread because I was being rational (and somewhat joking, urging people to respond) saying that Claude Lemieux could probably beat up anyone on our roster. Realistically I excluded Lilja, but aside from him it's probably true. Isn't it kind of sad when you think about it? That's the message I wanted to get across... before we laugh at a 40-something year old man getting beaten up by the former OHL heavyweight champion, let's take a look at our own team. McCarty pummeling Lemieux was one of the biggest strides this organization has EVER made, EVERYONE knows about that event. Everyone loves it... if Claude hit Draper from behind in our next game against San Jose and the exact same thing happened, realistically nothing would happen to Claude. We don't have a player who would go out of his way for revenge like Mac did. That's just me being honest. A lot of people won't care until it happens but as a "fan", it concerns me.

I'm a hockey fan. The Red Wings are my team... the team I support, follow, know everything about, etc... I'm extremely disappointed with the team we've put forth this year and honestly at times it sickens me to watch them... but I still watch every game and follow them every single day. I may be a different fan than you but I still care about the team just as much.

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Hank question: I'm asking this with 100% sincerety; what are you talking about? At what point did I threaten physical violence? I never once stated ANYTHING about 'beating anyone up'.

Answer, Hank quote: I find it quite ironic that you call someone like Claude a coward and classless and yet you feel very comfortable throwing insults at someone who never attacked you from behind the safe confines of your computer screen

Kaz: Since you can insult me back, what does this mean? How is it not a reference to my being a coward because you can't physically do anything to me since you have every disposal to respond to me and my computer screen is in no way "safe" from that?

Edited add on: I see you addressed this point above. I find your explanation weak that you just mean I wouldn't SAY it in real life, it sure sounds like a reference to physical, but OK. Actually I would say it in real life, but you'd take it more humorously as the people who know me do. Of course you don't get that from a few messages on a message board.

Hank: The 'attacks' I was referring to were how you referred to me having the comprehension of a 12 year old.

Why did you feel the need to insult me?

Kaz: Actually the reference to 12 was that anyone older should remember Claude Lemieux, it wasn't a reference to "comprehension." As for your not liking being insulted, again, whatever any other player did, no one has been as dirty with the Wings as the guy you're defending. And you're doing it on a Wing's fan site. Do the math, don't defend our most bitter enemies and then whine you get some grief. As for me, I like to argue and I HATE Claude Lemieux. If you were saying it about say Joe Thornton and I hated him because he drove over my dog I could totally see you saying WTF!?! But you choose to defend our most bitter enemy of all and whine? Good luck with that.

Edited by NomadFromKazoo

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You got involved in this thread because I was being rational (and somewhat joking, urging people to respond) saying that Claude Lemieux could probably beat up anyone on our roster. Realistically I excluded Lilja, but aside from him it's probably true. Isn't it kind of sad when you think about it? That's the message I wanted to get across... before we laugh at a 40-something year old man getting beaten up by the former OHL heavyweight champion, let's take a look at our own team. McCarty pummeling Lemieux was one of the biggest strides this organization has EVER made, EVERYONE knows about that event. Everyone loves it... if Claude hit Draper from behind in our next game against San Jose and the exact same thing happened, realistically nothing would happen to Claude. We don't have a player who would go out of his way for revenge like Mac did. That's just me being honest. A lot of people won't care until it happens but as a "fan", it concerns me.

I'm a hockey fan. The Red Wings are my team... the team I support, follow, know everything about, etc... I'm extremely disappointed with the team we've put forth this year and honestly at times it sickens me to watch them... but I still watch every game and follow them every single day. I may be a different fan than you but I still care about the team just as much.

Yes, I'm a strange type of fan who doesn't declare I don't "support" my team, make ludicrous statements like the Lemieux can beat up anyone on our roster showing what a bunch of pansies are and defend our bitterest enemy. But hey, I'm not "rational" like you are so I'll have to deal with that. And interestingly the other guy I've been arguing with agreed with you he doesn't support us either. I may not be rational, but I ID'd who's not really a fan, at least by my irrational definition of one that they support the team. I don't know what you're looking at that the team that won the Cup last year and signed trade deadline Stuart to an extension and Hossa in the offseason while losing no one important is to fem to win, but frankly since you guys ID'd your allegiance isn't with us, I'm satisfied it's a pointless question to ask.

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KAZ, anyone older than 20, would know that Chelios was a much worse antagonist and enemy of Wings nation than Claude.

Claude had one vicious hit on Draper. That was it. Yes, it was horrific, but if you look over all the crap that Chelios caused this team it really pales in comparison.

And yet, where's the outrage for Cheli being a great Wing now?

And if you really did talk to perfect strangers like you do here, I can imagine you don't have many friends. If that really is how you are, then you have the personality of a rattlesnake bite.

But something tells me you're nothing like your online persona. Most people aren't.

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Yes, I'm a strange type of fan who doesn't declare I don't "support" my team, make ludicrous statements like the Lemieux can beat up anyone on our roster showing what a bunch of pansies are and defend our bitterest enemy. But hey, I'm not "rational" like you are so I'll have to deal with that. And interestingly the other guy I've been arguing with agreed with you he doesn't support us either. I may not be rational, but I ID'd who's not really a fan, at least by my irrational definition of one that they support the team. I don't know what you're looking at that the team that won the Cup last year and signed trade deadline Stuart to an extension and Hossa in the offseason while losing no one important is to fem to win, but frankly since you guys ID'd your allegiance isn't with us, I'm satisfied it's a pointless question to ask.

You speak of rationalities and yet you find it ludicrous that Lemieux couldn't beat up everyone on this team outside of Lilja?

Who on this current roster - the same one that will be dressed for tonight - could beat up Lemiuex in a hockey fight? I can't think of one. That's the whole reason why I, and a few others, find it funny when Wing fans call him a coward.

That was the whole point of this thread - to call Lemieux a coward. And some people decided to play devils advocate and point out that outside of Lilja there isn't one 'coward' on this team that would drop the mitts to protect anyone.

I decided to use some rationality and look at what Claude has done in his career. I'm not clouded with personal feelings and ra-ra emotions towards everything that is Red Wings to recognize that the guy was a pretty darn good player in his day. And someone that would, on occasion, back up what he did on the ice. The same could not be said for two current pests on our team - Maltby and Sammuelson.

But as odd as this may sound Kaz, I agree with what you told me in the prior post. If you can't be 100% positive to all things Red Wing then don't bother coming to LGW. Heaven forbid someone critique this team or give props to anyone outside of Detroit - even if they're hated for something that happened 12 years and 4 Cups ago.

Edited by Hank

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You speak of rationalities and yet you find it ludicrous that Lemieux couldn't beat up everyone on this team outside of Lilja?

Who on this current roster - the same one that will be dressed for tonight - could beat up Lemiuex in a hockey fight? I can't think of one.

Cleary, I guess.

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Guest Shoreline

Claude Lemieux is the league's toughest guy..

.. when his opponent is facing the boards.

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You'd be surprised how many Red Wings' fans (who don't support this current team) might come out of the woodworks and start showing up at the Joe and making some noise if we actually dressed an entertaining line up that didn't shy away from any sort of physical play. Sorry I don't pretend to love anything Ken Holland throws my way... this brand of hockey isn't even remotely close to the brand I fell in love with, and I'm not willing to pretend it is like a lot of people do.

I agree with this post. See the late 80's and early 90's. I also agree with your assesment that Lemieux could take most of the Wings' current roster as well. Lilja and Cleary could probably give him a run, Mac would probably get beat down or a hug fest, and Downey's the only player on the team with a hint of fighting ability that would destroy Claude. I still hate the guy and he's a d-bag, but I'm not going to look at this whole scenario while drinking Red Wing kool aid.

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I agree with this post. See the late 80's and early 90's. I also agree with your assesment that Lemieux could take most of the Wings' current roster as well. Lilja and Cleary could probably give him a run, Mac would probably get beat down or a hug fest, and Downey's the only player on the team with a hint of fighting ability that would destroy Claude. I still hate the guy and he's a d-bag, but I'm not going to look at this whole scenario while drinking Red Wing kool aid.

Excellent post.

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KAZ, anyone older than 20, would know that Chelios was a much worse antagonist and enemy of Wings nation than Claude.

Claude had one vicious hit on Draper. That was it. Yes, it was horrific, but if you look over all the crap that Chelios caused this team it really pales in comparison.

And yet, where's the outrage for Cheli being a great Wing now?

And if you really did talk to perfect strangers like you do here, I can imagine you don't have many friends. If that really is how you are, then you have the personality of a rattlesnake bite.

But something tells me you're nothing like your online persona. Most people aren't.

Again, I AGREED with the antagonist. I hate Lemieux becuase he was DIRTY. Yes, I totally remember Cheli being a complete irritant. No, I don't remember him trying to take out our players. And no, it wasn't just that one hit with Lemieux. Certainly without that one extreme one he did to Draper my hatred of him wouldn't be as high, but it seemed the guy was always after guys who were in vulnerable positions. That they weren't injured doesn't make it not dirty. I know people bring up Cheli, but I'm not getting the connection that I need to be OK with Lemieux in some way because of Cheli. And while some people are stuck on the dirty word with Cheli, I don't remember that. I remember him going after the play, jawing and generally being an ass. I don't remember cheap shots. Pushing and shoving after plays are over and irritating your opponents is part of hockey, and isn't going to injure them.

As for people aren't online like they are with people in real life, congratulations on your firm grasp of the obvious. In fact that's a nice thing about the Internet. You guys chose to defend the evil one and I like to argue. So I did. Wow, I wouldn't do that if I met you in a cafe, you're onto something there. Could catch on when people realize they can do that, shh. Maybe some people would even like that. But since you chose to defend the most reviled enemy of the Wings and admit you do not "support" us, I still don't feel sorry for you no matter how much you want to whine about it.

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Yes, I'm a strange type of fan who doesn't declare I don't "support" my team, make ludicrous statements like the Lemieux can beat up anyone on our roster showing what a bunch of pansies are and defend our bitterest enemy. But hey, I'm not "rational" like you are so I'll have to deal with that. And interestingly the other guy I've been arguing with agreed with you he doesn't support us either. I may not be rational, but I ID'd who's not really a fan, at least by my irrational definition of one that they support the team. I don't know what you're looking at that the team that won the Cup last year and signed trade deadline Stuart to an extension and Hossa in the offseason while losing no one important is to fem to win, but frankly since you guys ID'd your allegiance isn't with us, I'm satisfied it's a pointless question to ask.

This is a Red Wings' discussion board, not the Stanley Cup parade, so you can check the "but we r da best!!" attitude at the door. You made the decision to drink the kool-aid, I didn't. To each his own.

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Yes, I'm a strange type of fan who doesn't declare I don't "support" my team, make ludicrous statements like the Lemieux can beat up anyone on our roster showing what a bunch of pansies are and defend our bitterest enemy. But hey, I'm not "rational" like you are so I'll have to deal with that. And interestingly the other guy I've been arguing with agreed with you he doesn't support us either. I may not be rational, but I ID'd who's not really a fan, at least by my irrational definition of one that they support the team. I don't know what you're looking at that the team that won the Cup last year and signed trade deadline Stuart to an extension and Hossa in the offseason while losing no one important is to fem to win, but frankly since you guys ID'd your allegiance isn't with us, I'm satisfied it's a pointless question to ask.

Why does everyone forget or refuse to acknowledge the fact that Drake played in pretty much every game last year and Downey played in a majority of the regular reason? It's always stat sheets to people on these boards. No one ever wants to give credit to the grinders and role players that go out with their heart on their sleeve and will do anything to help the team win. It's always what's on the score sheet.

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But as odd as this may sound Kaz, I agree with what you told me in the prior post. If you can't be 100% positive to all things Red Wing then don't bother coming to LGW. Heaven forbid someone critique this team or give props to anyone outside of Detroit - even if they're hated for something that happened 12 years and 4 Cups ago.

Umm...show me where I said that. If you're so "rational" then why do you need to completely fabricate the points you're arguing? Do you mean that once you fabricated a point your response to it is completely "rational?"

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