Broduer Interview/Goaltending Records

[Greatness=PavelDatsyuk 65]

I don't know if anyone saw this, but during the second period of the Atlanta-Wasington game last night, they were playing part of an Interview with Martin Broduer.

The last part of the interview really ticked me off. They asked him who the best goalie of all time was, and he said Patrick Roy. This would have been fine if he had said "Of this Era", or somthing like that, but he didn't. It really pisses me off when people have the nerve to say that some of the best goalies are recent. To me, the best goalies of all time were the ones like Terry Sawchuk and them wo had minimal padding and didn't wear a mask. Sure, you can have a goalie break the win record when they have better padding and can get right in front of shots, and they are great goaltenders, but Sawchuk set his Shuout record without wearing a mask.

I think there should be two different sets of records for goalies, one for those before the mask and one for those affter it started to be used on a regular basis. What do you guys think?

[Reds4Life 51]

Terry Sawchuk's opponents couldn't shoot so hard etc, it goes both ways. You can compare Sawchuk and Roy and Roy is better. (and I hate Roy).

[Guest Shoreline]

Terry Sawchuk's opponents couldn't shoot so hard etc, it goes both ways. You can compare Sawchuk and Roy and Roy is better. (and I hate Roy).

The first part of your post actually just showed how you can't compare the two.

[Greatness=PavelDatsyuk 65]

Terry Sawchuk's opponents couldn't shoot so hard etc, it goes both ways. You can compare Sawchuk and Roy and Roy is better. (and I hate Roy).

I don't think you should compare them at all. There is no "fair" way to do it, so don't, just make seperate stat lists

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Would you create separate set of stats for skaters as well? What's more, any date you choose would be completely arbitrary and only divide incompatible eras further. You can't compare a goalie from the 70s with a mask to a goalie today with a mask; and you can't compare a goalie in the 20s without a mask with a goalie in the 50s without a mask.

The game changes, folks will have to accept that. Even the definition of a W has changed in time. It's impossible to compare eras but he's not necessarily wrong for saying Roy and you're not necessarily wrong for saying Sawchuk. You're asking the wrong question, which is "Who's Number One?" If you're compelled to get the answer to that (as we are wont to do) then the only thing you can really use are the stats.

[Decoy Jones 0]

The game changes, folks will have to accept that.

Agreed

[Greatness=PavelDatsyuk 65]

Would you create separate set of stats for skaters as well? What's more, any date you choose would be completely arbitrary and only divide incompatible eras further. You can't compare a goalie from the 70s with a mask to a goalie today with a mask; and you can't compare a goalie in the 20s without a mask with a goalie in the 50s without a mask.

Yes, but the switch to using masks was big and changed how goalies could play. Sure, stats varry by years, but there wern't any major equipment changes for them. Yes a goalie from the 20s will have different stats then one from the 50s, but they essentialy had the same type of equipment. It would have changed in those years, but not like adding a mask did. With the mask, the goalie was more protected, and that would allow them to play more then a goalie who didn't wear a mask and had to be stitched up, like Sawchuk. The stiching and pain would affect the goalies performance, to an extent. I agree that Roy was a great goaltender, though i don't like him, but i don't think you should compare the two.

[Mike 0]

Composite sticks changed the game too, so let's start a record book that only keep stats on players who use composite sticks...I think not.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Yes a goalie from the 20s will have different stats then one from the 50s, but they essentialy had the same type of equipment.

Did they? I don't have any knowledge on that particular matter. But one from the 70s versus one from today? There's definitely a difference. And even if the goalie equipment didn't change, the rest of the game did, and that affects the goalie and reflects on his stats, too.

Also, you're own two eras don't sound consistent with themselves. You'd have goalies in the mask era with no masks on.

I'm not trying to tear you down here, you pose a legitimate question, but I disagree. You can't just divide NHL history into two eras for goalies and call that fair. If it were to really be fair, you'd have to break it down into segments for every major innovation in the game as it went along, which would create so many sets of data it'd be completely impractical and useless.

[Reds4Life 51]

The first part of your post actually just showed how you can't compare the two.

I don't think you should compare them at all. There is no "fair" way to do it, so don't, just make seperate stat lists

You can compare the two using their dominance over their peers as a determining factor. For example Gordie Howe was much better than Steve Yzerman although Steve scored more points in a single season etc.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Reds4Life

[Guest Shoreline]

You can compare the two using their dominance over their peers as a determining factor. For example Gordie Howe was much better than Steve Yzerman although Steve scored more points in a single season etc.

You can't even do that as there were few similarities. Yzerman had half of his career in an era of 100+ points per season being a regular thing. Pretty much the opposite for Howe since teams played significantly less games per season (which likely had an influence on conditioning/injuries as well, which were already different back then). There is no tangibly comparable or objective method of measuring "dominance" in different eras. Sorry. Just not possible without bias as an influencing factor.

[T-Ruff 47]

I have no problem with the fact that over time the game changes and that will affect records and who is considered the greatest and such.... There's no need for something silly like multiple sets of records to account for different "eras".... the newer eras are the more important ones anyway.... For example, the Leafs have won over 10 Stanley Cups, that means nothing to me considering they haven't won one since the leage expanded beyond a measley 6 teams... Things that happen in the newer eras deservedly get more credit....

Brodeur, Hasek and Roy are all better than Terry Sawchuck