Concussion keeps Andreas Lilja's career on hold

[RedWingAbner 13]

You mean Jonathon Ericcson.

Ericsson is a good prospect; but if you are making an argument that right now he is better than say, oh, Steve Montador (Bruins deadline pickup) you are wrong.

[ben_usmc 253]

If Cindy Crosby who is a hart contender stands up for himself, your ******* right our 3/4 lines better sure as f*** learn to play with a sack; Sammy/maltby/draper/kopecky etc. You may get rocked by Lilja but you also play much more aggressive if you think your team has your back. Someone runs Ozzy, oh no problem we have a pp to show them, they run ozzy again, run him again and injury him. Great we got 2 or 3 goals but lost a player for a few games . They put one of us in the hospital we put one of theres in the morgue

Edited March 24, 2009 by ben_usmc

[ben_usmc 253]

Ericsson needs a better and more relieable guy in the back end than lebda to play with so ericsson can use his offensive potential and join the rush and score goals

They need to have a line of Kronner/Big Rig

Stu/Lebda

for now. Of course godforbid Babs makes lines that make sense, although he is the SC coach so I can't ***** to much.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Can someone explain to me how having an enforcer would have stopped Lilja from getting beat down in a situation he started?

Is it really that hard of a concept? An enforcer on this team means Lilja doesnt have to fight to begin with.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

If Cindy Crosby who is a hart contender stands up for himself, your ******* right our 3/4 lines better sure as f*** learn to play with a sake; Sammy/maltby/draper/kopecky etc. You may get rocked by Lilja but you also play much more aggressive if you think your team has your back. Someone runs Ozzy, oh no problem we have a pp to show them, they run ozzy again, run him again and injury him. Great we got 2 or 3 goals but lost a player for a few games . They put one of us in the hospital we put one of theres in the morgue

Crosby is a terrible example. He loses his cool like no one else in this league, and he doesnt fight fairly either.

The whole point of having an enforcer on the roster is so that if the guy gets rocked, so what? Hes expendable. Lilja is a key guy this season, and hes out because hes fighting when hes a non-fighter.

On that note, Draper or Maltby shouldnt be fighting either. Maltby already had the eye injury - no reason he should risk going blind from a fight, and Drapes is a key faceoff guy, which, as the 06 Edmonton series showed us, is essential in the playoffs.

That leaves Kopecky. And if Kopecky were to take some fighting lessons instead of trying to prove hes a skilled guy, then wed at the very least ameliorate our situation. But at this point, Kopecky hasnt shown any interest in fighting, and until he learns how to, he shouldnt be fighting either for the sake of his health, although hes definitely expendable.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Having a bunch of goons and tough guys isn't going to prevent a lucky punch that causes a concussion. Seriously. It was a fight. Nothing dirty. The punch was just insanely unlucky for Lilja.

You just don't get it.

"bunch of goons and tough guys"??? Where the f*** do you get that from what I said. Lemme spell it out for you: I SPECIFICALLY SAID: I DON'T THINK AN ENFORCER WILL DO THE TRICK.

What I said was, and the players I mentioned like Moreau, Jason Smith, are hardly enforcers and hardly just simple "tough guys". They are good hockey players. They are tough hockey players. They are guys who have captained their teams, played regular, valuable minutes, throw the body, play physical and yes, when need be are willing and fully capable of fighting. And I don't mean fighting like Lilja where you're in it even thou you don't want to be in it. These guys are willing and able.

Now, let's just address the matter a little more directly for the slow people around here. Did I ever say anything about a tough guy preventing Weber from landing that punch? Did I ever say it was dirty? No, I never said any of these things.

The fact of the matter is maybe that's not Andreas Lilja in that situation. You think Jason Smith is going to stand there with his head down like Lilja and not even throw a punch? You think a guy like Robyn Regehr is going to do that? Or Kevin Bieksa? Hell no, those guys are far more capable.

The bottom line is opposing teams do whatever they want to do so far as bending the rules, hitting high, punching our guys, slashing our guys or what have you. They do it b/c they have ZERO FEAR of anyone stepping over the boards to hold them accountable or their teammates accountable. IMO, where I come from, in a lopsided game like that where Shea Weber goes after Lilja. I take my guy like Jason Smith and I send him after Greg Zanon or Dan Hamuis. Why? Well if I have to explain it to you forget it.

Put guys on your roster who play regular minutes and know how to fight versus guys who play regular minutes and don't know how to fight. Trust me, the results will likely be much better in the long run.

s***, we're all lucky Jim Vandermeer didn't drop the gloves and beat Franzen senseless 2 weeks ago. And for all the talk of how our guys stick up for themselves and blah, blah. If you go back and watch that incident, Franzen sticks up for himself alright and starts flailing away at Vandermeer and another Flame when Jimmy V says enough of this and lands a glove on bomb to the left side of Franzen's head and BOOOM!, Down goes Franzen!

Get this idea of enforcers out of yur fecking heads. Enforcers don't get it done. What you need are everyday players who are tough.

You need a Brendan Shanahan, a Bill Guerin, a Garnet Exelby a Regerh, Mayers, Crombeen, Nystrom, Bieksa and the fecking list goes on and on. Get guys who play and can fight instead of forcing your Europeans into untenable situations.

[wmubronco420 25]

There is no way having an enforcer would have preventef that fight. If you think lilja could've just skated away form weber you're an idiot, i mean you could tell lija didnt want to fight but weber wasnt having it. pluss lilja pulled him down in a really cheap way, no way downey was gonna be able to do anything about that

[YoungGuns1340 1]

There is no way having an enforcer would have preventef that fight. If you think lilja could've just skated away form weber you're an idiot, i mean you could tell lija didnt want to fight but weber wasnt having it. pluss lilja pulled him down in a really cheap way, no way downey was gonna be able to do anything about that

Yeah, because players on the Wings never skate away when a guy is grabbing him and screaming in his face that he wants to go. Thats an every game occurrence on this team.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

There is no way having an enforcer would have preventef that fight. If you think lilja could've just skated away form weber you're an idiot, i mean you could tell lija didnt want to fight but weber wasnt having it. pluss lilja pulled him down in a really cheap way, no way downey was gonna be able to do anything about that

I agree. Which is why I don't believe in enforcers. What I do believe is that I'd gladly trade Andreas Lilja for about 40 other defenders in the league who all do what he does and have the added ability of knowing how to fight.

Having some tougher players on your team means the other teams players at least have to keep it in mind that somebody may step over the boards and hold them or their teammates accountable.

Do people have any idea how much trash talk and retribution goes on out there. If you have the players to back up your words, believe me, it works wonders.

You ever wonder why a guy like Ryan Suter, not a really rugged guy, can just run around at the Wings and get into a full on fistfight with Marian Hossa? He can act tougher than he is. He can take liberties and he can fight one of the best forwards in the game b/c we don't have a guy by the name of Jamal Mayers or David Clarkson or BJ Crombeen who can jump over the boards the next shift and say, "you wanna fight somebody, then fight me".

No, we leave ourselves open to abuse b/c other teams have ZERO FEAR of having to answer to anyone on our roster other than Downey and he's never in the lineup.

I will never understand this aversion folks have to having players on the team who can fight. It seems that if you say the word fight, the image people get is Andrew Peters or Brian McGratton.

WTF don't people comprehend what's being said and think along the lines of a Francois Beuchemin, Ethan Moreau etc...... Those are the types of players we need to do our fighting. We don't need Probert anymore. God what I wouldn't give to see David Clarkson in a Wing's sweater. Or somebody like him.

[esteef 2,679]

I agree. Which is why I don't believe in enforcers. What I do believe is that I'd gladly trade Andreas Lilja for about 40 other defenders in the league who all do what he does and have the added ability of knowing how to fight.

Having some tougher players on your team means the other teams players at least have to keep it in mind that somebody may step over the boards and hold them or their teammates accountable.

Do people have any idea how much trash talk and retribution goes on out there. If you have the players to back up your words, believe me, it works wonders.

You ever wonder why a guy like Ryan Suter, not a really rugged guy, can just run around at the Wings and get into a full on fistfight with Marian Hossa? He can act tougher than he is. He can take liberties and he can fight one of the best forwards in the game b/c we don't have a guy by the name of Jamal Mayers or David Clarkson or BJ Crombeen who can jump over the boards the next shift and say, "you wanna fight somebody, then fight me".

No, we leave ourselves open to abuse b/c other teams have ZERO FEAR of having to answer to anyone on our roster other than Downey and he's never in the lineup.

I will never understand this aversion folks have to having players on the team who can fight. It seems that if you say the word fight, the image people get is Andrew Peters or Brian McGratton.

WTF don't people comprehend what's being said and think along the lines of a Francois Beuchemin, Ethan Moreau etc...... Those are the types of players we need to do our fighting. We don't need Probert anymore. God what I wouldn't give to see David Clarkson in a Wing's sweater. Or somebody like him.

I'm with you Gordie! Carcillo, Boll, Rupp, Winchester, etc...

esteef

[drwscc 212]

That type of player is hard to come by these days, though, because GMs all realize how valuable they are.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Put guys on your roster who play regular minutes and know how to fight versus guys who play regular minutes and don't know how to fight. Trust me, the results will likely be much better in the long run.

See 2007-2008, the absence of a Drake type player is leaving a bigger void than what people are willing to admit, because he's just a "goon."

[esteef 2,679]

That type of player is hard to come by these days, though, because GMs all realize how valuable they are.

I call bulls*** on that often used retort. They're so "hard to come by" yet most teams have them and new ones are uncovered every season (Dorsett, Crombeen, etc.) Detroit just isn't looking for any, that's the problem.

esteef

[Vladifan 680]

What happens if you play games with headaches? could the blood-vessel's in your head explode and damage the brain? Just wondering....

Yeah. That could very well be the case from what I've read. Hematomas. I.E., Natasha Richardson.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Yeah, because players on the Wings never skate away when a guy is grabbing him and screaming in his face that he wants to go. Thats an every game occurrence on this team.

Our guys never do that. They just have selective hearing.

Here's a little list of names I came up with. Pretty much I would trade somebody like Lebda, Lilja, Kopecky, Meech, etc.. for:

Player Ice Time

Mike Commodore 22:52

Regehr 21:29

Bieksa 23:46

O'Donnell 20:28

Matt Greene 19:57

Staois 19:45

Salvador 19:42

Gleason 20:44

Backes 17:39

Fisher 18:33

Clowe 17:45

Dubinsky 16:46

Colin White 18:59

Komisarek 20:33

Montador 16:17

Jason Smith 17:32

Witt 20:05

Malone 17:35

Moen 15:01

Doug Murray 16:30

Moreau 15:36

O'Brien 15:07

Boynton 16:51

Talbot 14:16

Walker 16:25

Clarkson 12:25

Crombeen 12:33

Laperierre 13:35

Gaustad 16:08

Exelby 16:42

McCleod 10:58

Carcillo 11:45

Erskine 16:37

Mair 10:36

Mayers 10:20

Sutherby 10:46

Voros 11:15

Stewart 12:08

Vandermeer 15:39

Neil 10:48

Torres 11:55

Scott Walker 13:33

Sutton 20:14

Davison 10:05

There are plenty of players in the NHL, and this list isn't nearly all of them, that are capable hockey players who know how to handle a fight. As for enforcers, probably aside from Erskine and Neil, and perhaps Carcillo, there really aren't any "enforcers" on this list. The players are out there. It's just up to Kenny to round out the roster a little better in the future. Anyone who tells me we can't use one of these players in place of Meech or Lebda or Kopecky, has got their head up their ass if you ask me.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Whew, I was hoping that someone would either start an enforcer/non-enforcer thread or at least turn another thread into one. I just feel like it is the one aspect of the team that is not really discussed on this site.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Crosby is a terrible example. He loses his cool like no one else in this league, and he doesnt fight fairly either.

The whole point of having an enforcer on the roster is so that if the guy gets rocked, so what? Hes expendable. Lilja is a key guy this season, and hes out because hes fighting when hes a non-fighter.

On that note, Draper or Maltby shouldnt be fighting either. Maltby already had the eye injury - no reason he should risk going blind from a fight, and Drapes is a key faceoff guy, which, as the 06 Edmonton series showed us, is essential in the playoffs.

That leaves Kopecky. And if Kopecky were to take some fighting lessons instead of trying to prove hes a skilled guy, then wed at the very least ameliorate our situation. But at this point, Kopecky hasnt shown any interest in fighting, and until he learns how to, he shouldnt be fighting either for the sake of his health, although hes definitely expendable.

Patrick Sharp would probably disagree with you on that point.

You just don't get it.

"bunch of goons and tough guys"??? Where the f*** do you get that from what I said. Lemme spell it out for you: I SPECIFICALLY SAID: I DON'T THINK AN ENFORCER WILL DO THE TRICK.

What I said was, and the players I mentioned like Moreau, Jason Smith, are hardly enforcers and hardly just simple "tough guys". They are good hockey players. They are tough hockey players. They are guys who have captained their teams, played regular, valuable minutes, throw the body, play physical and yes, when need be are willing and fully capable of fighting. And I don't mean fighting like Lilja where you're in it even thou you don't want to be in it. These guys are willing and able.

Now, let's just address the matter a little more directly for the slow people around here. Did I ever say anything about a tough guy preventing Weber from landing that punch? Did I ever say it was dirty? No, I never said any of these things.

The fact of the matter is maybe that's not Andreas Lilja in that situation. You think Jason Smith is going to stand there with his head down like Lilja and not even throw a punch? You think a guy like Robyn Regehr is going to do that? Or Kevin Bieksa? Hell no, those guys are far more capable.

The bottom line is opposing teams do whatever they want to do so far as bending the rules, hitting high, punching our guys, slashing our guys or what have you. They do it b/c they have ZERO FEAR of anyone stepping over the boards to hold them accountable or their teammates accountable. IMO, where I come from, in a lopsided game like that where Shea Weber goes after Lilja. I take my guy like Jason Smith and I send him after Greg Zanon or Dan Hamuis. Why? Well if I have to explain it to you forget it.

Put guys on your roster who play regular minutes and know how to fight versus guys who play regular minutes and don't know how to fight. Trust me, the results will likely be much better in the long run.

s***, we're all lucky Jim Vandermeer didn't drop the gloves and beat Franzen senseless 2 weeks ago. And for all the talk of how our guys stick up for themselves and blah, blah. If you go back and watch that incident, Franzen sticks up for himself alright and starts flailing away at Vandermeer and another Flame when Jimmy V says enough of this and lands a glove on bomb to the left side of Franzen's head and BOOOM!, Down goes Franzen!

Get this idea of enforcers out of yur fecking heads. Enforcers don't get it done. What you need are everyday players who are tough.

You need a Brendan Shanahan, a Bill Guerin, a Garnet Exelby a Regerh, Mayers, Crombeen, Nystrom, Bieksa and the fecking list goes on and on. Get guys who play and can fight instead of forcing your Europeans into untenable situations.

I agree with most of your post, but Lilja has beaten better fighters than Jason Smith and Robyn Regehr. You make it sound like he's never dropped the gloves in his career. In fact, it wasn't too long ago when he dropped Sheldon Souray, who's a better fighter than Weber in my opinion.

[Vladifan 680]

Is it really that hard of a concept? An enforcer on this team means Lilja doesnt have to fight to begin with.

This just doesn't make sense. It's the heat of the moment. How do you synchronize all that to the benefit of our team and the score?

[Vladifan 680]

Whew, I was hoping that someone would either start an enforcer/non-enforcer thread or at least turn another thread into one. I just feel like it is the one aspect of the team that is not really discussed on this site.

[ben_usmc 253]

Crosby is a terrible example. He loses his cool like no one else in this league, and he doesnt fight fairly either.

The whole point of having an enforcer on the roster is so that if the guy gets rocked, so what? Hes expendable. Lilja is a key guy this season, and hes out because hes fighting when hes a non-fighter.

On that note, Draper or Maltby shouldnt be fighting either. Maltby already had the eye injury - no reason he should risk going blind from a fight, and Drapes is a key faceoff guy, which, as the 06 Edmonton series showed us, is essential in the playoffs.

That leaves Kopecky. And if Kopecky were to take some fighting lessons instead of trying to prove hes a skilled guy, then wed at the very least ameliorate our situation. But at this point, Kopecky hasnt shown any interest in fighting, and until he learns how to, he shouldnt be fighting either for the sake of his health, although hes definitely expendable.

sorry but being a "pk" specialist and a face off guy really don't do it for me anymore. Although Maltby has been playing really good on the PK so I'll give him that. But we have plenty above average face off people. If that's all they are worth and doing for the team they sure as hell shouldn't be playing. Because I would rather have a 3/4 that can I don't know shut down another teams line, or throw a check, not run around and kill any momentum we have. Maltby+Draper+Ozzy= the key to Detroit failure this season. I'm not saying they can't turn it on, but they sure as f*** better soon.

Also I'm not talking about Crosby's tactics or reasons, but the fact that a whiney ***** like him is willing to stand up for himself, we have plenty of people who have no excuse why they shouldn't.

Edited March 24, 2009 by ben_usmc

[Guest Shoreline]

Christ, I'm one of the people who thinks we need one or two enforcers on the team, but how it manages to make it's way into a topic like this is utterly stupid.

Good wishes to Lilja, and hope his career will continue, with or without being a Wing.

[esteef 2,679]

This just doesn't make sense. It's the heat of the moment. How do you synchronize all that to the benefit of our team and the score?

I think the point is with fighters on the team/bench/whatever, a lot of this hot-headed bulls*** after the whistle doesn't happen. Everyone and their mother knows you can smack the Wings around and all you'll get is chatter back. It DOES have an affect on team play whether people want to admit it or not.

esteef

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

If we had an enforcer on the team, he would intimidate Ozzie from letting in soft goals.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I think the point is with fighters on the team/bench/whatever, a lot of this hot-headed bulls*** after the whistle doesn't happen. Everyone and their mother knows you can smack the Wings around and all you'll get is chatter back. It DOES have an affect on team play whether people want to admit it or not.

esteef

[ben_usmc 253]

I don't really care about a protypical enforcer, I just want our guys to stand up for themselves and each other. Not just fighting but hitting and protecting.