Interesting Reaction from Detroit

[playoffhockeyfan 0]

I'm a Pens fan and live in Chicago. I have a neighbor and a co-worker who are die-hard Wings fans and we have friendly wagers between us (won a box of donuts). I got to same some things up front about the Wings.

You guys are an awesome organization. Like a machine. You churn out champion teams again and again and generate star players from nowhere. Last year, I was in awe (and still am) of your team. The Pens were lucky to extend it to 6 last year as the Cup should have been wrapped up in that triple overtime game.

Even this year - there are so many times when it seems that the Wings were playing as if they had a power play - but when I looked up - I didn't see any indication that there was one. The way your forwards control the puck and move it into the zone over and over again - it was awesome to watch. After going down 2-0, I didn't think the Pens had a chance. I think the only thing that saved the Pens was their youth. All those games in that short amount of time, I think hurt the older Wings and the Pens eeked it out.

Still, I am in awe of the Wings. Babcock is as in-control of a coach I have ever seen. Win or lose, he is the same, strong and calm. Zetterberg and Datysuk and Franzen are crazy good and consistent. And lindstrom is as solid as they come.

I think the whole world was thinking that Detroit was going to win again this year. After they went up 2-0 = those feelings became stronger. After the 5-0 win in game 5, it seemed to be a forgone conclusion. Even pushed to game 7 - it seemed that everyone believed the wings were going to win. History, home-advantage, and the way this series has gone (everybody winning at home) seemed to point towards the Wings.

And the opposite happened. Mind you - it could have easily gone the other way. An odd bounce here and there and the Wings would have retained the cup ... easily. The Pens played well but not overwhelming better than the Wings in game 7 to be afforded all the accolades that they now enjoy. Visa versa, the wings did not play bad at all - to deserve all the questions that have now come about their team. Unfortunately, that is what a game 7 does - it portrays the winner as so much better and the loser as so much worse - when in reality, the line between the two is indistinguishable and in my opinion, I think the Wings are the beter team still and the Pens got lucky (one bad pass by Stuart and one luck stab at the puck by Kunitz got them the two goals). If game 7 was played as a 4 period game or if the series was a best of 9 - I firmly believe, Detroit would have won the cup.

However, when the opposite happened, I was intrigued by the reaction coming out of the fans and players. I can listen to 97.1, the ticket over the internet and was avidly doing so because I could not get any Pittsburgh stations on my iphone and it was the only hockey talk on the air. I think the win by the Pens was so shocking - that it provoked a grief reaction and the Kubler stages. The pens winning was so unexpected, so surprising, and so sad to contemplate - it was similar to the shock one would feel when someone close to you dies.

Stage 1: Denial - this stage was over quickly when the images of Crosby holding the cup was seen

Stage 2: Anger - most of the fan are still in this stage. It has come out in many ways: 1. There was a conspiracy by Bettman 2. The refs screwed us by not calling offsides and icings at he most crucial moments - because they TOTALLY knew that the Pens were going to score imminently 3. Everyone is against the European Red Wings with Zetterberg, Datysuk, Franzen, etc ... and want the North American Pens - Crosby, Staal, Fleury, Orpik to win. 4. NBC wanted the Pens to win by making sure it went to a game 7. 5. Pens didn't play that good, the Wings gave it to them ... so the Pens really didn't deserve it.

Stage 3: Bargaining - the rest of the fans have drifted here. These fans have accepted that the Wings lost but will make some comment to assuage the sting of that lost - usually at the expense of the Pens. For instance, the Wings lost but ... Crosby is a whiner, Crosby is not that good of a player as evidenced by his stats in the finals, Crosby is a bum for not shaking Lindstrom's hands, Crosby is a (fill in the blank) - just because I don't like him. Or they will say, the Wings lost but ... the Pens have cap problems and they would be lucky to get to the playoffs next year. Or the Wings lost ... we have 11 cups to your 3.

I guess any team losing a game 7 will provoke such a reaction but I must say that it seem more extreme than usual, probably because it was so expected that the Wings would win.

The reality folks is that there was no conspiracy by Bettman, the refs or NBC. There is no hatred against European players that translate to forces going for the North American Pens (Malkin, Gonchar, Fetotenko) and against the European Wings (Helm, Cleary, Stuart). The Pens played well enough to win 4 out of 7 games and the Wings played just as well. The Pens deserve to be champs and so would the Wings if a puck bounced one way or another. Crosby is a good player. He did not intentionally dis Lindstrom as Draper thinks he did. And there is a good chance that both these teams will make the playoff next year.

But where would all the fun be if we could not shout out that there was a conspiracy or two.

Good series Wings. I will always be in respect and awe of your team and I would love it if the Pens and Wings were in it again next year for the Cup. That would be good for the NHL, I believe., no matter whoever wins.

[Doc Holiday 0]

We appreciate the sentiment, but we don't need you doing a psychoanalysis of our fans. Thanks.

[hockeytown9 1]

Thanks for the classy post! Right now there are still plenty of raw emotions on this forum as you can see. I think it's like when Draper was quoted as saying Lidstrom was upset about the whole Crosy handshake thing. The game hadn't been over that long and being a player involved on the losing side I'm sure he was pretty upset. It's the same way for many fans in terms of what gets said on here after a loss. I personally feel the series came down to the Pens hunger to win and the Wings lack of hunger and tiredness. Again kudos to you for posting your comments in a very classy manner.

[soonboomer 31]

We appreciate the sentiment, but we don't need you doing a psychoanalysis of our fans. Thanks.

Thank you for speaking for "us".

[b.shanafan14 733]

Not a fan of psychology, in fact I think most of it is nonsense and excuses. I do respect a lot of what the OP said.

That said:

-I've never seen the Wings phone in two games like they did Games 6 and 7, that more than anything was disgusting to watch.

-I've never seen any league NBA, NFL, MLB, or the NHL pre-Crosby wave a single teams flag season after season, this causes missed calls one way, and the circumventing of rules the league otherwise is supposedly hell bent on enforcing that much fishier (just look at the whole sequence from the end of Game 2 to the end of Game 3, from the rescinding of an automatic suspension to 6-on-5 for a near mythic 20+ seconds, to the GWG being scored on a severely weak interference the likes of which much worse was let go on both sides the entire game)

You are definitely right that the sheer blind-sided reaction of Wings fans to their loss is much like dealing with death, but its the stench around loss both on the part of the Wings who came out flat when they should have had extra motivation and the stench of a team that from marketing campaigns to the near Penguins-sweater-wearing-admission of Bettman is obviously favored by the league as a pure profit machine, that makes it so hard to bare.

As I've said in another thread: when have you EVER seen a team marketed as a DYNASTY before they ever won a playoff series? When have you EVER seen a team marketed as they would a CHAMPION the entire season after the lost? How many Tom Brady and Patriots ads did you see showing them pummeling the Giants the season after they went 18-1?

Edited June 14, 2009 by b.shanafan14

[Electrophile 3,554]

I got as far as "I'm a Pens fan" and then tuned out. If I want psychoanalysis, I'll read Freud.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

Thank you for speaking for "us".

You're one to talk....

[thedisappearer 291]

I got as far as "I'm a Pens fan" and then tuned out. If I want psychoanalysis, I'll read Freud.

You want to bang your mother. It's all about penis. And he's a Pens fan.

[Booster313 138]

I actually respect your opinion and I don't think it's too far off base, a couple of things though. You should never misspell LIDSTROM. I don't think age had anything to do with it The average age of the Wings is 33 years old the Pens 29 but if you subtract Chelios at 47 the numbers are much closer. I think injuries are what ultimatly sealed the Wings fate. Not that I am using it as an excuse, injuries are part of the game and the Pens worked hard and deserve the win but a healthy Wings teams beats this Pens team in 5 games.

[soonboomer 31]

You're one to talk....

I wasn't addressing you, but I can understand you sticking your nose in after the verbal raping I've given you the past few days.

[Electrophile 3,554]

You want to bang your mother. It's all about penis. And he's a Pens fan.

LOL.....I'm a chick, though. The Electra Complex is for men.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

I wasn't addressing you, but I can understand you sticking your nose in after the verbal raping I've given you the past few days.

oh you really think highly of yourself don't you?

Verbal raping? Only in your dreams.

Now go back to worshiping your Cindy Crysby poster.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Thank you for speaking for "us".

Oh, so you are happy to be seeing a thread like this.

I'm glad the reasonable posters like you can appreciate a Pens fan coming out of his way to tell us what kind of fans we are.

[soonboomer 31]

oh you really think highly of yourself don't you?

Verbal raping? Only in your dreams.

Now go back to worshiping your Cindy Crysby poster.

Find some original material. Do you really want to get into another pissing contest today?

Oh yea, why in the world would a grown man use an icon that means "hehe"?

But then again, it's pretty much on the level of your post.

[soonboomer 31]

Oh, so you are happy to be seeing a thread like this.

I'm glad the reasonable posters like you can appreciate a Pens fan coming out of his way to tell us what kind of fans we are.

He was giving an opinion just as you do. Didn't say I appreciate it, but it's about as non offensive as a Pens post could be. The guy said he thought the Wings were still the better team. Alot of fans on this forum don't even believe that.

[Doc Holiday 0]

He was giving an opinion just as you do. Didn't say I appreciate it, but it's about as non offensive as a Pens post could be. The guy said he thought the Wings were still the better team. Alot of fans on this forum don't even believe that.

I never said it was offensive. But it was his belief on how Detroit's fans are made up, and we don't need someone else to tell us how we react to playoff games.

Unless you do...

[soonboomer 31]

I never said it was offensive. But it was his belief on how Detroit's fans are made up, and we don't need someone else to tell us how we react to playoff games.

Unless you do...

My misunderstanding........the nature of your original response appeared to suggest that you might be offended by what he said. I don't think he ever told "us" how to react to anything, but rather that it was his opinion of how fans reacted the loss. Perhaps a slight difference in interpretation? If you disagree with his opinion, so be it. Somehow I don't think you speak for all of "us".

[Doc Holiday 0]

My misunderstanding........the nature of your original response appeared to suggest that you might be offended by what he said. I don't think he ever told "us" how to react to anything, but rather that it was his opinion of how fans reacted the loss. Perhaps a slight difference in interpretation? If you disagree with his opinion, so be it. Somehow I don't think you speak for all of "us".

If I don't, then I feel sorry for those Red Wing fans who do need to know how they are supposed to react.

[soonboomer 31]

If I don't, then I feel sorry for those Red Wing fans who do need to know how they are supposed to react.

I'm sure "they" will appreciate your pity, and who knows, maybe some of "them" feel sorry for you too.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I'm sure "they" will appreciate your pity, and who knows, maybe some of "them" feel sorry for you too.

Can't see why they would feel sorry for me.

And I don't need them to appreciate it. That is just simply the case.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

Got as far as "I'm a Pens Fan...."

[IceMunkee 15]

I'm a Pens fan and live in Chicago. I have a neighbor and a co-worker who are die-hard Wings fans and we have friendly wagers between us (won a box of donuts). I got to same some things up front about the Wings.

You guys are an awesome organization. Like a machine. You churn out champion teams again and again and generate star players from nowhere. Last year, I was in awe (and still am) of your team. The Pens were lucky to extend it to 6 last year as the Cup should have been wrapped up in that triple overtime game.

Even this year - there are so many times when it seems that the Wings were playing as if they had a power play - but when I looked up - I didn't see any indication that there was one. The way your forwards control the puck and move it into the zone over and over again - it was awesome to watch. After going down 2-0, I didn't think the Pens had a chance. I think the only thing that saved the Pens was their youth. All those games in that short amount of time, I think hurt the older Wings and the Pens eeked it out.

Still, I am in awe of the Wings. Babcock is as in-control of a coach I have ever seen. Win or lose, he is the same, strong and calm. Zetterberg and Datysuk and Franzen are crazy good and consistent. And lindstrom is as solid as they come.

I think the whole world was thinking that Detroit was going to win again this year. After they went up 2-0 = those feelings became stronger. After the 5-0 win in game 5, it seemed to be a forgone conclusion. Even pushed to game 7 - it seemed that everyone believed the wings were going to win. History, home-advantage, and the way this series has gone (everybody winning at home) seemed to point towards the Wings.

And the opposite happened. Mind you - it could have easily gone the other way. An odd bounce here and there and the Wings would have retained the cup ... easily. The Pens played well but not overwhelming better than the Wings in game 7 to be afforded all the accolades that they now enjoy. Visa versa, the wings did not play bad at all - to deserve all the questions that have now come about their team. Unfortunately, that is what a game 7 does - it portrays the winner as so much better and the loser as so much worse - when in reality, the line between the two is indistinguishable and in my opinion, I think the Wings are the beter team still and the Pens got lucky (one bad pass by Stuart and one luck stab at the puck by Kunitz got them the two goals). If game 7 was played as a 4 period game or if the series was a best of 9 - I firmly believe, Detroit would have won the cup.

However, when the opposite happened, I was intrigued by the reaction coming out of the fans and players. I can listen to 97.1, the ticket over the internet and was avidly doing so because I could not get any Pittsburgh stations on my iphone and it was the only hockey talk on the air. I think the win by the Pens was so shocking - that it provoked a grief reaction and the Kubler stages. The pens winning was so unexpected, so surprising, and so sad to contemplate - it was similar to the shock one would feel when someone close to you dies.

Stage 1: Denial - this stage was over quickly when the images of Crosby holding the cup was seen

Stage 2: Anger - most of the fan are still in this stage. It has come out in many ways: 1. There was a conspiracy by Bettman 2. The refs screwed us by not calling offsides and icings at he most crucial moments - because they TOTALLY knew that the Pens were going to score imminently 3. Everyone is against the European Red Wings with Zetterberg, Datysuk, Franzen, etc ... and want the North American Pens - Crosby, Staal, Fleury, Orpik to win. 4. NBC wanted the Pens to win by making sure it went to a game 7. 5. Pens didn't play that good, the Wings gave it to them ... so the Pens really didn't deserve it.

Stage 3: Bargaining - the rest of the fans have drifted here. These fans have accepted that the Wings lost but will make some comment to assuage the sting of that lost - usually at the expense of the Pens. For instance, the Wings lost but ... Crosby is a whiner, Crosby is not that good of a player as evidenced by his stats in the finals, Crosby is a bum for not shaking Lindstrom's hands, Crosby is a (fill in the blank) - just because I don't like him. Or they will say, the Wings lost but ... the Pens have cap problems and they would be lucky to get to the playoffs next year. Or the Wings lost ... we have 11 cups to your 3.

I guess any team losing a game 7 will provoke such a reaction but I must say that it seem more extreme than usual, probably because it was so expected that the Wings would win.

The reality folks is that there was no conspiracy by Bettman, the refs or NBC. There is no hatred against European players that translate to forces going for the North American Pens (Malkin, Gonchar, Fetotenko) and against the European Wings (Helm, Cleary, Stuart). The Pens played well enough to win 4 out of 7 games and the Wings played just as well. The Pens deserve to be champs and so would the Wings if a puck bounced one way or another. Crosby is a good player. He did not intentionally dis Lindstrom as Draper thinks he did. And there is a good chance that both these teams will make the playoff next year.

But where would all the fun be if we could not shout out that there was a conspiracy or two.

Good series Wings. I will always be in respect and awe of your team and I would love it if the Pens and Wings were in it again next year for the Cup. That would be good for the NHL, I believe., no matter whoever wins.

It is funny you say this. I have said I was going through the 5 stages of grief since yesterday morning. I was to... I would go through so many emotions and back again. I still kind of am. I won't ever forget the feelings I have gone through this weekend and find it very hard to believe that another game or series will provoke so much emotion again.

Bottom line is. We played well, you played better. We are the better team 7 out of 10 times. You just played better. Thanks, I will never forget this...

[Barrie 900]

I'm not making any excuses, but I'm really starting to think we just pain ran out of gas. We've played 63 Playoff games in the last 3 years. That's almost another full season! We played almost 4 seasons of hockey in 3 years. Insane!

[shanny is the man 0]

Thanks for the patronzing lecture.Nice try with the "gosh I respect you so much" BS, but I for one don't accept you insulting condescension and can't wait until YOUR team has the target painted on its back.

[Barrie 900]

The reality folks is that there was no conspiracy by Bettman, the refs or NBC. There is no hatred against European players that translate to forces going for the North American Pens (Malkin, Gonchar, Fetotenko) and against the European Wings (Helm, Cleary, Stuart). The Pens played well enough to win 4 out of 7 games and the Wings played just as well. The Pens deserve to be champs and so would the Wings if a puck bounced one way or another. Crosby is a good player. He did not intentionally dis Lindstrom as Draper thinks he did. And there is a good chance that both these teams will make the playoff next year.

But where would all the fun be if we could not shout out that there was a conspiracy or two.

I don't have an opinion on this, but I find it interesting that the conspiracy talk is coming from Sports Illustrated and ESPN, two media sources that the NHL desperately needs!