Opie 308 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) I almost had to vote NO because there was not a HELL YEAH we got two great players in their prime for cheap, FTW! option. EDIT: Egroen, I hate to be riding on your coattails all day, but it is such a nice ride! If that is true I would still rather have Mule for 4 and no Hossa. I said all along I would love to have Hossa back, but some where near 5 so as to keep Mule and the rest of the core together. That Mule Flip Hossa line was sick in the postseason against ANA! Edited July 2, 2009 by Opie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I agree about his bad playoffs for his standards. But Datsyuk had a bad playoffs too, should we all hate him too or is there a double standard on this board (that's a silly question, of course there is). Injury is a pretty solid mitigating circumstance, and the fact that he played exceptionally well in the previous two postseasons goes a long way to endearing yourself to a fanbase. The primary issue is that Datsyuk is already signed for another fifty years, so it never really mattered how well or poorly he did, nothing could be done about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I almost had to vote NO because there was not a option. EDIT: Egroen, I hate to be riding on your coattails all day, but it is such a nice ride! If that is true I would still rather have Mule for 4 and no Hossa. I said all along I would love to have Hossa back, but some where near 5 so as to keep Mule and the rest of the core together. That Mule Flip Hossa line was sick in the postseason against ANA! This is where you have to give Holland a lot of credit -- he identified the better player (Hossa) and made the offer during the season. Hossa being Hossa did not ****** it up, so instead of making the mistake of Ray Shero and sitting on all his assets until free agency and waiting for Hossa to make up his mind (and possibly losing Franzen in the process like Pittsburgh lost Malone), he turned around and locked up Franzen for a great deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lovin Jiri Fischer 147 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I agree about his bad playoffs for his standards. But Datsyuk had a bad playoffs too, should we all hate him too or is there a double standard on this board (that's a silly question, of course there is). And the team player thing is ridiculous. How many ******* times has Hossa let a pass go between his legs to some other red wings player, and some times scored a goal. You're even dumber than I thought if you actually believe the things you type. Hossa is the epitome of team player. Datsyuk also missed 6 or 7 games in a row and played with an injury. What's Hossa's excuse? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 This is where you have to give Holland a lot of credit -- he identified the better player (Hossa) and made the offer during the season. Hossa being Hossa did not ****** it up, so instead of making the mistake of Ray Shero and sitting on all his assets until free agency and waiting for Hossa to make up his mind (and possibly losing Franzen in the process like Pittsburgh lost Malone), he turned around and locked up Franzen for a great deal. Fantastic post! Ken Holland is the best GM in sports! He may have had a great help with what he started with, but how many GM's go somewhere only to blow it all to hell even if they had a contender there the year before! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Datsyuk also missed 6 or 7 games in a row and played with an injury. What's Hossa's excuse? I think Hossa was playing with too much pressure and simply did not handle it very well. With all the injuries and spotlight he tried to "do it all" and was basically rendered into an ineffectual puck hog and turnover machine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Datsyuk also missed 6 or 7 games in a row and played with an injury. What's Hossa's excuse? He scored 40 goals during the season, therefore can be absent during the playoffs as much as he wants as it apparently doesn't count. Oh, also, Franzen had one less point during the finals, but the rest of the playoffs don't count either since only the regular season and the finals matter. We also don't count the last several playoff years either, because Hossa >>>> Franzen. This is facts guys. Maybe if I put this in my sig I'll be a little less insecure about my positions. Edited July 2, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I think Hossa was playing with too much pressure and simply did not handle it very well. With all the injuries and spotlight he tried to "do it all" and was basically rendered into an ineffectual puck hog and turnover machine. I feel similar, and that the Pens were the worst possible match up for him (and, by extension, the Wings); he was totally spooked and was never able to get his feet on the ground, which he was having a hard enough time doing beforehand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Fantastic post! Ken Holland is the best GM in sports! He may have had a great help with what he started with, but how many GM's go somewhere only to blow it all to hell even if they had a contender there the year before! So many GMs seem to be under a lot of pressure to just "do something" -- and this pressure I bet comes from owners. Holland has no such pressure placed upon him by Ilitch, so we are not seeing anything crazy like Kronwall or Filppula traded in order to obtain a Gaborik, Havlat or Heatley. I'm watching Bob Gainey in Montreal, and this guy is pulling what looks to be terrible moves all in an attempt to "do something". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I feel similar, and that the Pens were the worst possible match up for him (and, by extension, the Wings); he was totally spooked and was never able to get his feet on the ground, which he was having a hard enough time doing beforehand. Which will hopefully work in Detroit's favor in the WCFs this coming year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 He scored 40 goals during the season, therefore can be absent during the playoffs as much as he wants as it apparently doesn't count. Oh, also, Franzen had one less point during the finals, but the rest of the playoffs don't count either since only the regular season and the finals matter. We also don't count the last several playoff years either, because Hossa >>>> Franzen. This is facts guys. Yeah and everyone seems to forget that when he scored those 40 goals the wings were allowing 4 goals a night and needed the offense to save their asses. Hossa and Dats did a s*** load of work in the regular season to get this team to #2 in the West #3 overall. Why is it again that wings fans are labeled spoiled? Can't remember?? If your Hossa V. Mule argument only involves skill then yes, you are 100% correct. However in todays sports age, cap hit has to be figured in, and on this Wings team Mule at 4m >>>> Hossa at 5.2. I would like to see Mule Flip (Leino/Hudler/Cleary) this season or (Mule Helm Hudler/Leino/Cleary) (I assume the 1st line will be Cleary Z Dats, however my assumptions are usually way off!) I think a line of Mule and Helm would be awesome, those two forechecking and a speedster in the zone looking for loose pucks, WIN WIN! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 How many times did red wings palyers say that Hossa was a perfect fit in the locker room? He scored 40 goals this season, I keep repeating it because it's extremely relevant. He was #7 in goals scored this season. THAT MEANS SOMETHING. If you say someone who has scored 40 goals elsewhere and then scores 20 with the wings, you can cry chemistry. But Hossa nearly had a career year in goals, and likely would have if he didn't miss some time, so this renders your chemistry argument void. 40 goals or not, he didn't mesh well with Detroit's stars and really only meshed with Filpulla and Franzen. Locker room chemistry aside. It doesn't "make up" for it. This might be over your head, but it's an indicator over his very high skill level, and that he just had a bad playoffs last season. Hossa isn't a playoff choker like Joe Thornton, as some people would have everyone here believe. Thornton has a history of playoff disappearances, Hossa doesn't. People who are smarter than you realize that he is worth having for the playoffs. No he isn't, but he isn't a good playoff performer on this team. He fit in better in Pittsburgh because that team was focused on star power. Detroit is not. I agree about his bad playoffs for his standards. But Datsyuk had a bad playoffs too, should we all hate him too or is there a double standard on this board (that's a silly question, of course there is). And the team player thing is ridiculous. How many ******* times has Hossa let a pass go between his legs to some other red wings player, and some times scored a goal. You're even dumber than I thought if you actually believe the things you type. Hossa is the epitome of team player. Injuriesss. And the fact he was up for all that hardware this year. Hart trophy anyone? Datsyuk has been Detroit's most dominant player since the lockout, and has been their leading point getter in the regular season. How many points did Hossa get in the regular season? Also lets consider that Hossa should have had more drive than Datsyuk considering he lost in the finals. What happened? Did he become complacent with a cup he never won? LOL, yeah. 12 years sure doesn't give him much chance! Pretty sure he was talking about Chicago being a contender, not how long Hossa has in the NHL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 He scored 40 goals during the season, therefore can be absent during the playoffs as much as he wants as it apparently doesn't count. Oh, also, Franzen had one less point during the finals, but the rest of the playoffs don't count either since only the regular season and the finals matter. We also don't count the last several playoff years either, because Hossa >>>> Franzen. This is facts guys. Maybe if I put this in my sig I'll be a little less insecure about my positions. Before jumping in the thread with your well-overdone sarcasm posts (it's like..every time with you There are more ways to get your point across. or maybe you're just not smart enough to come up with reasons why someone is wrong, you just generally don't like the other persons viewpoint so you mock it without actually saying anything. don't talk to me about insecurities) why don't you actually read some of the things I've said. I've gone over all these things, and I won't again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) he didn't mesh well with Detroit's stars ...focused on star power. Detroit is not. In a team not focused on stars, why would not meshing with the teams stars matter...when you're still able to score 40 goals? Anyway I'm bored of this, I've said all I can say. It's unfortunate this board is filled with homers bitter over not winning a cup. I guess the temptation to blame Hossa is just too easy. Edited July 2, 2009 by Z and D for the C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Before jumping in the thread with your well-overdone sarcasm posts (it's like..every time with you There are more ways to get your point across. or maybe you're just not smart enough to come up with reasons why someone is wrong, you just generally don't like the other persons viewpoint so you mock it without actually saying anything. don't talk to me about insecurities) why don't you actually read some of the things I've said. I've gone over all these things, and I won't again. I can't say you're wrong because it's merely an opinion, so yeah, I guess I'm not smart enough. Sux to be me. But, I can point out the horrendously flawed logic (conveniently dismissing the entire playoffs this season, pointing out only a single series, and furthermore dismissing Mule's performance DURING the playoffs the last several playoff years, plus his performance during the regular seasons) and insecurity with your positions (needing to put favorable arguments to your own positions or quote yourself in your sig is a blatant sign of insecurity) to suggest that the basis for your arguments is equivalent to dog excrement. But since I haven't read anything you've said, should I start pulling quotes from you talking about how pissed you'd be if Mule re-signs, and basically doing the same Mule bashing and Hossa fapping several months back? I think I'm pretty well aware of where you've been getting at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 40 goals or not, he didn't mesh well with Detroit's stars and really only meshed with Filpulla and Franzen. Pretty undeniable, I think. He scored 40 goals, and yet a lot of them were from weird angles, long range wristers that had a tendency to fool goalies, or solo efforts. If he could have developed a rapport with Datsyuk they would have been absolutely dynamite, but it didn't work very well. So he goes from having great chemistry with Crosby, one of the best passers in the league, to a second line center in Flip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Pretty undeniable, I think. He scored 40 goals, and yet a lot of them were from weird angles, long range wristers that had a tendency to fool goalies, or solo efforts. If he could have developed a rapport with Datsyuk they would have been absolutely dynamite, but it didn't work very well. So he goes from having great chemistry with Crosby, one of the best passers in the league, to a second line center in Flip. Seemed to me he had pretty decent chemistry with Flip, as far as that goes between him and other players on this team. As for Crosby, it seems everyone meshes with him because he's far more of a talented scorer, passer, and playmaker than Hossa, and makes everyone around him better. I'm a Wings homer though so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Edited July 2, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted July 2, 2009 i would like to see the Wings sign a forward to basically replace sammy: 2nd line scorer, but with fewer mind numbing plays : D And for $1.2m? Welcome to the cap world. We can't have players of the caliber of Robitaille, Holmstrom and Larionov on the 4th line anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lovin Jiri Fischer 147 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 In a team not focused on stars, why would not meshing with the teams stars matter...when you're still able to score 40 goals? Anyway I'm bored of this, I've said all I can say. It's unfortunate this board is filled with homers bitter over not winning a cup. I guess the temptation to blame Hossa is just too easy. So I guess that means you're smarter than Kenny Holland too? He signed Franzen. He let Hossa go. He could have raised the offer to Hossa, but he didn't. He did the right thing. Hockey is their JOB. The playoffs are probably the biggest job interview they will ever have. Franzen rocked his interview two years in a row and tied a record. Hossa could have come up big when we needed him and scored some goals, but he didnt. It's done. Get over it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 So I guess that means you're smarter than Kenny Holland too? He signed Franzen. He let Hossa go. He could have raised the offer to Hossa, but he didn't. He did the right thing. Hockey is their JOB. The playoffs are probably the biggest job interview they will ever have. Franzen rocked his interview two years in a row and tied a record. Hossa could have come up big when we needed him and scored some goals, but he didnt. It's done. Get over it. Well, Holland offered Hossa contract reg season, he turned it down, Holland knowing his numbers and having a good idea of the cap, went to mule with a deal Mule liked, he signed and therefore it was all but over for Hossa. No link needed as it was common knowledge throughout the season Holland was working with these two to get one done before post season and the other done in the summer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 In a team not focused on stars, why would not meshing with the teams stars matter...when you're still able to score 40 goals? Are you going to argue semantics all day long? Or do you actually believe Detroit doesn't play a more team game than Pittsburgh? Anyway I'm bored of this, I've said all I can say. It's unfortunate this board is filled with homers bitter over not winning a cup. I guess the temptation to blame Hossa is just too easy. Yeah because we didn't pay Lidstrom money for him to perform did we? Everyone knows Hossa is more skilled than Franzen. But Franzen is more valuable considering the money we put down for him and the money Hossa is paying now. You continue to dodge that fact by arguing that "Hossa>Franzen" and because of that he is more valuable in a cap world. That isn't true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 And for $1.2m? Welcome to the cap world. We can't have players of the caliber of Robitaille, Holmstrom and Larionov on the 4th line anymore. Actually, I'll be sad if I see Homer anywhere other than the 4th line and on the pp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Actually, I'll be sad if I see Homer anywhere other than the 4th line and on the pp. Fantastic post!! HE and Maltby HAVE TO be on the 4th line, no other place for them. I respect and love them for the wings they have been, but they are brutal out there! Remember in 07 when Homer could actually score on a wrister from some where other than in the crease! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Fantastic post!! HE and Maltby HAVE TO be on the 4th line, no other place for them. I respect and love them for the wings they have been, but they are brutal out there! Remember in 07 when Homer could actually score on a wrister from some where other than in the crease! I agree, although I think Malby could be a pretty good fit in the pressbox as often as not. I think he and Ken Danniels have pretty good chemestry. Say what you want about Maltby's lack of, well, everything that he used to have on the ice, I bet he's still pretty good with a clipboard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I agree, although I think Malby could be a pretty good fit in the pressbox as often as not. I think he and Ken Danniels have pretty good chemestry. Say what you want about Maltby's lack of, well, everything that he used to have on the ice, I bet he's still pretty good with a clipboard. I would love to see him in street clothes all year, because that would mean the 4th line would be friggin awesome. However, sadly I see him taking the roster spot. Again not that I don't respect and love what Malts has done in the past, but he was past his expiration date last year! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
