Opie 308 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 We also signed Z and Franzen, they were during the season but when you talk about what detroit had for FAs going into the season Z, Franzen, Leino is not too shabby considering all you really lost (Hossa wasn't lost, he was given away, if Det had anywhere up to 6 mil in cap space he would have been a wing) is Sammy and Kopecky so far. IMO Z, Mule > Hossa, Sammy, and Kopecky Z, Mule, Leino > Hudler, Hossa, Sammy, and Kopecky(I have defended both Kopy and Sammy, but Z is better than Hossa, Mule is the best of any remaining names after Hossa) But that is just me. I think the team will stay loyal as that is what gave them a chance at a player like Hossa for the year. It pays dividends in the contracts of Z, Dats, Lids, Mule, Flip, Kronner, Stuart and Ralf. In a year or two Draper, Maltby, Homer will be gone, hopefully their loyalty can get a top forward or a great young guy signed here long term. But if you look at it in the short term as in the last couple of weeks, yeah it has put them in a pinch and could cost them a good young player in Hudler. But when I think of this years signings I will look at Z and Mule as two of the biggest signings in the league. Either of those guys hits the market and Hossa ( or stayed in the case of Z) still left I would have been bulls***. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobbles 252 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 i am doing something i hate and repying without reading all of the comments on this thread. but its friday and i want to be lazy. i think this loyalty concept has very little to do with our current problems. sure i think maltby has become a shell of his former self. but think about how little he makes. if he suddenly retires, that frees up 600k, but that money has to be reused to fill his roster spot. even if you get a minimum contract you are saving what? 150k? same with draper. while he makes a little more, its not like his salary is an albatross. for what he can bring to the table with faceoffs and leadership, you are hard pressed to replace his value to the team and save much money. even if you felt that a minimum contract player you still aren't saving much more than 500k. holmstrom is a bit of a different story. i don't see him as much as a loyalty issue, but someone that turned out to be a bad contract. i just don't think we saw things catching up so fast and turning him into a less useful player. additionally, i don't think people saw guys like franzen or even cleary to be able to be the same type of player homer is and making him more easily replaceable. every gm ends up giving out contracts that look bad in retrospect. its just now in the cap world, they are harder to swallow. but i really don't see any of these contracts as problems because of loyalty. and certainly they aren't the reason that we have cap problems. the reason we have cap problems is because we have so many great players with big contracts. lidstrom, rafalski, zetterberg, datsyuk, franzen. the thing about the cap is that every team runs out fo space for good players. getting hometown discounts helps. but we can't expect to keep everyone these days. saving a couple hundred thousand by dumping these veterans for rookies wouldn't have saved enough money to really keep any of the players we lost. and arguably could have hurt the team just as much or more than losing who we did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spydrwebb 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 Well, if you didnt expect to see this comming...than you were too caught up in something else.. This is not a year where the Wings go for it all..Do they have a chance? Of course. While you see other teams bulking up the roster, they are also thinning out their wallets. What the Wings have in the next three years, is homegrown talent replacing our "new era founding fathers". Instead of Holland breaking bank by making trades and signing guys us fans think would be a perfect fit..He's using this year and the next few to let our rookies settle in and get acquainted. This is Detroits rebuilding. The core is set: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Cleary, Kronwall, Stuart. ( Yzerman, Fedorov, Lapointe, Shanny, Lidstrom, Chelios) And then we got young guns ready to play: Helm, Abdelkader, (Daper, Maltby) Erricsson, Howard..And after next season and maybe the next one after that we'll see Emmerton, Kindl and others replacing Lidstrom, Draper, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Osgood. Dont panic because we lost a group of expendibles. In order to clear up space for the future you have to weed out the guys who are replacable ( Sammy, Hudler, Kopecky). Losing Hossa is big, but it wont be the reason the Wings win or Lose this year. Be excited for what the future holds. Stop being negative because we didnt make drastic changes. reply and factual information pertaining directly to DRW = 9, delivery = 0 way to tell others how they should feel. God forbid somebody had an opinion different than yours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 Very nice points Dobbles. I think you touched on somethings that no one else has mentioned. I think where people think we are too loyal, is while none of these contracts are backbreaking, and maybe they weren't just thought out well enough... is that Holland and the organization are not willing to trade away these players and contracts to another team. I'm sure that Holland could get someone to take Holmstrom or Draper off our hands... but would we get value in return? Maybe... maybe not... Sure we might be able to stockpile a few picks here and there to package up for trades... but we'd still need pieces of the puzzle for the team we ice. I'm not saying that I wouldn't love to have younger or cheaper pieces to ice, but because we are having the cap "problems" we are having... it's not really feasible without giving key components of a contending team. Do we really need the veteran leadership of Holmstrom, Draper, and Malts? No. ...but what value are we going to get in return? ...how much will it cost us in cap space to do so? Like I've said before, it would be great for Detroit to make "splashy" deals each and every year... but because we have a solid core locked (top two lines/top four defensement) ...it makes it rather difficult. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted July 18, 2009 Very nice points Dobbles. I think you touched on somethings that no one else has mentioned. I think where people think we are too loyal, is while none of these contracts are backbreaking, and maybe they weren't just thought out well enough... is that Holland and the organization are not willing to trade away these players and contracts to another team. I'm sure that Holland could get someone to take Holmstrom or Draper off our hands... but would we get value in return? Maybe... maybe not... Sure we might be able to stockpile a few picks here and there to package up for trades... but we'd still need pieces of the puzzle for the team we ice. I'm not saying that I wouldn't love to have younger or cheaper pieces to ice, but because we are having the cap "problems" we are having... it's not really feasible without giving key components of a contending team. Do we really need the veteran leadership of Holmstrom, Draper, and Malts? No. ...but what value are we going to get in return? ...how much will it cost us in cap space to do so? Like I've said before, it would be great for Detroit to make "splashy" deals each and every year... but because we have a solid core locked (top two lines/top four defensement) ...it makes it rather difficult. Being from New York you should be aware of how often teams like the Rangers "splash" deals out left and right and how little it helps them. Locking up core guys isn't only for the sake of loyalty. It's also for the sake of maintaining a professional locker room, demeanor, and those things translate onto the ice. That's why this team can have over 25 straight years of classy captainship passing his professionalism and demeanor down to the next one. Ever since Leetch and Messier were gone it's been Russian Roulette as to who is the next Rangers captain. The Wings have set up Z, Dats, and even Mule to be leaders on this team, and not surprisingly locked them up for a good while. I can agree about keeping some of the lower end players like Draper and Maltby, who are becoming less and less utilized/effective, as being likely due to loyalty, but that situation is a bit stickier and I trust both Holland and Babs to make the right decision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 18, 2009 Being from New York you should be aware of how often teams like the Rangers "splash" deals out left and right and how little it helps them. Locking up core guys isn't only for the sake of loyalty. It's also for the sake of maintaining a professional locker room, demeanor, and those things translate onto the ice. That's why this team can have over 25 straight years of classy captainship passing his professionalism and demeanor down to the next one. Ever since Leetch and Messier were gone it's been Russian Roulette as to who is the next Rangers captain. The Wings have set up Z, Dats, and even Mule to be leaders on this team, and not surprisingly locked them up for a good while. I can agree about keeping some of the lower end players like Draper and Maltby, who are becoming less and less utilized/effective, as being likely due to loyalty, but that situation is a bit stickier and I trust both Holland and Babs to make the right decision. I'm originally from Detroit, but yes... watching the Rangers flounder since Leetch and Mess left has been interesting to say the least. To be in a huge market like New York, it's gotta be hard to ice a team that doesn't feature some superstar names, etc. I think that in turn does not help with the forging of a professional and "team" oriented locker room. Personally, I like the Islanders better. I've always liked the franchise, and while it currently has it's ownership and building woes... (Charles Wang did himself no favor previously hiring Mike Milbury as a GM) Garth Snow has seemingly begun to "right the ship" and don't feel the pressures that the Rangers do when it comes to icing a team. The Rangers are THE NEW YORK CITY team, while the Islanders are simply a New York team. (okay, it's not that simple... ) ...and absolutely! The Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom situation is definitely sticky! You want to do right by players that have helped bring championships to a franchise. I would expect no less from the Red Wings organization. Like I said in a previous post, the day we trade loyalty to making those types of "splashy" deals the Rags make... is the day I find a new team to root for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2009 Red Wings are only the best and classiest team in the entire NHL because of loyalty. I hope other GMs don't employ Holland's methods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
