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Drake_Marcus

So what will the 2nd power play unit look like?

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So, assuming Hudler's still going to go to Russia (i.e. the Wings accept his arbitration contract and he defects to Russia anyway, thus allowing the Wings to retain his rights), what's the second PP going to look like? Hudler was the best playmaker on the 2nd unit and assuming Babcock keeps Datsyuk and Zetterberg together on the 1st unit, we're now lacking a legitimate puck distributor on the power play. Before anyone says "Filppula!" I'd like to point out that his hands are at least one order of magnitude below those of Hudler, so a straight switch of Hudler for Filppula greatly diminishes the effectiveness of the PP.

Let's assume the 1st PP unit looks like this:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary/Holmstrom (assuming he gets his groove back)

Lidstrom-Rafalski

That's an elite PP, no doubt about it.

But what about the 2nd unit?

Franzen-Filppula-Leino

Kronwall-Ericsson/Stuart

Looks ok, I guess, but there's no one with Hudler's hands there. Leino's shown himself to be an excellent playmaker at the AHL level, but he's still a rookie (and thus an unknown). Filppula? His hands aren't at the level you'd expect of a PP centre. He's good at holding onto the puck and protecting it, but he makes poor pass/shoot decisions and isn't much above average when it comes to dishing the puck out creatively.

Leino's a natural centre, so he could possibly take the centre's role, but at this point given the seniority, payscale, and length of time waiting for PP mins, the centre's position is Filppula's to lose (assuming the Wings don't pick a good top 6 player up this offseason).

If we assume that Holmstrom gets his groove back I can imagine him back on the 1st unit, if only as a PP man (after which he'd likely resume his 3rd/4th liner role). That leaves Cleary as a candidate for the 2nd power play, but he plays a very similar role to Franzen. Ideally I'd like to see Cleary's season become one long lesson in how to be the new Holmstrom. I'd like to see Cleary learn Holmstrom's positioning/methods used to aggravate opposing defensemen and goalies.

My best guess is that we see the following:

Franzen-Filppula-Leino, with Leino taking up the role of playmaker and Filppula dealing with the faceoffs then taking up the role of shooter/passer similar to what Zetterberg does. In this scenario Franzen is Holmstrom, Filppula is Zetterberg and Leino is Datsyuk. (That last line should scare you :lol: )

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If you want to run things down low through a puckhandler and playmaker on the second unit, then I'm afraid you'll have to separate Datsyuk and Zetterberg when it comes to the PP.

But they could just go back to the system they had in 07-08 where much of the plays were primarily run through the back end; long shots on goal that lead to rebounds.

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If you want to run things down low through a puckhandler and playmaker on the second unit, then I'm afraid you'll have to separate Datsyuk and Zetterberg when it comes to the PP.

But they could just go back to the system they had in 07-08 where much of the plays were primarily run through the back end; long shots on goal that lead to rebounds.

If I remember correctly 07-08 turned out pretty well. I guess that method is as good as any :)

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I think they're going to have to run more plays through their point men anyways. Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall... Is there a better trio in the league? That way guys like Fil and Pug can just concentrate more on puck retrieval and shooting. Pug is more of a scorer than Hudler anyways.

At this point I doubt that we'll see both of those two on the PP to start the season anyways because Cleary deserves a spot more than either of those two.

I hope Fil gets some PP time though. Will he be as good as Hudler? Hell no. Does that mean he's worthless on the PP? I don't think so.

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I hope Fil gets some PP time though. Will he be as good as Hudler? Hell no. Does that mean he's worthless on the PP? I don't think so.

Ok, watching that video did give me a semi, so it must've been a good pass. :ph34r:

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Well, according to some people on this forum, Helm has great hands and 20+ goal potential, so why not give him a try?

Sure, Helm has 20 goal potential if we're talking about how many he'll score in his first 3 seasons combined. :lol:

I hear ya man.

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This is what I want to see from Helm. That any s***-tons of hitting. Anything else he provides is just gravy.

Speaking of which, I'd love to see the Wings get their greasy hands on Clutterbuck!

I don't think that we will see as much hitting from Helm in the regular season than we did in the playoffs. I'm not sure if he'll be able to sustain it over 82+ games. His speed and tenacity on the other hand...

Re the 2nd PP unit, I agree with you and I guess that we'll see

Franzén-Filppula-Leino

Kronwall-Stuart/Ericsson

Some may lament Hudler's absence. But let's face it, this PP will never be the same without Sammy.

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I don't think that we will see as much hitting from Helm in the regular season than we did in the playoffs. I'm not sure if he'll be able to sustain it over 82+ games. His speed and tenacity on the other hand...

Re the 2nd PP unit, I agree with you and I guess that we'll see

Franzén-Filppula-Leino

Kronwall-Stuart/Ericsson

Some may lament Hudler's absence. But let's face it, this PP will never be the same without Sammy.

Agreed- the opposition's jerseys will last much longer now that logo hunter is gone!

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Mikael Samuelsson... The Bane of the Opposing Team's Laundry Boy.

You ever tried getting rubber marks off of a jersey?

:lol: No, but my mom did when I was a kid and from what I understand it's tough (my brother was a goalie).

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If Hudler is made to play for Wings I would trade him to the worst team in the league for a bag pucks (if he does not want to be here let hime go) as for the seconD PP unit

Fanzen/Flip/Cleary/Kron/Stu it will be nice to see the puck stay in the zone

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i would rather see ericsson over stuart. stuart has a great shot but so does ericsson, and it should be fun to see 100+ shots out of him. if somehow he becomes a liability then stuart is a not-too-shabby replacement.

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i would rather see ericsson over stuart. stuart has a great shot but so does ericsson, and it should be fun to see 100+ shots out of him. if somehow he becomes a liability then stuart is a not-too-shabby replacement.

I'm sure that both Stuart and Ericsson will get some time - they have great shots, and Stuart looked good out on the PP when there were holes that needed filling.

Re Helm, I love the guy, but I really don't think that he's going to be a 20-goal scorer.

With regard to Franzén-Filppula-Cleary, I'm not sure about that. I think that Cleary is great, and in many ways definitely deserves power-play time. However, I think that Leino has better offensive instincts, and the net presence will be fulfilled by Franzén.

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I'm sure that both Stuart and Ericsson will get some time - they have great shots, and Stuart looked good out on the PP when there were holes that needed filling.

Re Helm, I love the guy, but I really don't think that he's going to be a 20-goal scorer.

With regard to Franzén-Filppula-Cleary, I'm not sure about that. I think that Cleary is great, and in many ways definitely deserves power-play time. However, I think that Leino has better offensive instincts, and the net presence will be fulfilled by Franzén.

Sensible post. I'd like to see Cleary get some rest during the PP so he can continue his incredible fore checking and all round hustle. Then put him in a PP every now and then so things don't get stale.

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I think they're going to have to run more plays through their point men anyways. Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall... Is there a better trio in the league? That way guys like Fil and Pug can just concentrate more on puck retrieval and shooting. Pug is more of a scorer than Hudler anyways.

At this point I doubt that we'll see both of those two on the PP to start the season anyways because Cleary deserves a spot more than either of those two.

I hope Fil gets some PP time though. Will he be as good as Hudler? Hell no. Does that mean he's worthless on the PP? I don't think so.

I agree with everything except Kronwall being good on the point. Am I the only one that thinks he's actually really bad at it? The backboards are to Kronwall what the goalie's jersey logo was to Sammy IMO. He just can't hit the net worth a damn, and he turns the puck over at the blueline more than anyone. And most of Kronwalls wide shots aren't intentional.

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I agree with everything except Kronwall being good on the point. Am I the only one that thinks he's actually really bad at it? The backboards are to Kronwall what the goalie's jersey logo was to Sammy IMO. He just can't hit the net worth a damn, and he turns the puck over at the blueline more than anyone. And most of Kronwalls wide shots aren't intentional.

Kronwall is a fantastic passer, though. I agree with some of the previous posters that the #2 PP won't be run from the half-wall like Huds did. I think more than anything we'll see Kronwall running the PP, and then Franzen battling along the boards and in front of the net with Fil on the boards serving mostly to win battles and chip the puck back to the D, and then Leino can be a late man for whatever scoring options come up.

It's a good #2 PP for any team in the league. I guess us Wings fans are just a little bit spoiled.

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If Hudler is made to play for Wings I would trade him to the worst team in the league for a bag pucks (if he does not want to be here let hime go) as for the seconD PP unit

Fanzen/Flip/Cleary/Kron/Stu it will be nice to see the puck stay in the zone

Actually Hudler does want to be a Red Wing, he just doesn't want to take a hugely reduced salary at this point in his career. 3 million a year is very low for a 25 year old coming off a 23g 57pt season with only 3rd line minutes. If you look at comparable players in the league he should be getting something around 4 million or more. I don't give two s***s if he's short, the players he' comparing his salary to are going to be comparible in physical play as well.

He stated that the reason why he took the Russian deal was the he wanted to be a Wing and didn't want to play for an NHL team if it wasn't the Wings, that he wanted to make his 10 million tax free and come back to the NHL (fair enough considering this is his first chance to make real bank as a pro athlete) and that he planed to continue with the arbitration process so the Wings would retain his rights.

You may feel like this is a betrayal, but it's really not much different than any other RFA or UFA situation between a loyal player and a team that can't afford to pay them their market value. If you've yet to make your big NHL contract taking below market value is much tougher to accept, especially when you're a guy like Hudler who has a bright future a head of him and doesn't want to sign a longterm deal that would have him miss his best opportunity for big bucks when he's at his peak.

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I am more than excited to see that 2nd PP unit.

Fillps has been watching and learning how to score from Johan, he'll be just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6hWmSeaRdA...feature=related

The big problem is that Filppula just doesn't project as an elite or near-elite offensive talent. Yeah he'll put up some points, but I have a hard time imagining him topping 55pts in his career unless he uncovers a new source of offensive skill and breaks out like Franzen did. Right now he just hasn't shown glimpses of near-elite offensive skill.

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i know this was said about filp last year, but i expect this to be a breakout year for him. The comparison has been made (albeit somewhat unfairly) to datsyuk's early days with the wings in terms of timidity of shooting the puck, etc. With a lot more room on our bench, and elevated ice time, i'd like to think this season will be one where filp can really establish himself as an offensive threat.

The wings need certain players to take the next step in their game, and i expect a lot from players like filp, helm, and ericcson, and i am particular excited to see the evoltuion of the latter two.

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i would rather see ericsson over stuart. stuart has a great shot but so does ericsson, and it should be fun to see 100+ shots out of him. if somehow he becomes a liability then stuart is a not-too-shabby replacement.

Here are some TOI/G averages from last season (regular season only):

Even Strength:

Rafalski 18:12

Kronwall 17:28

Lidstrom 17:26

Stuart 17:04

Ericsson 15:29

Lilja 13:36

Lebda 13:23

Short Handed:

Lidstrom 3:27

Lilja 3:20

Stuart 2:49

Kronwall 2:30

Ericsson 1:57

Power Play:

Lidstrom 3:55

Rafalski 3:45

Kronwall 2:55

Samuelsson 2:44

Total:

Lidstrom 24:49

Rafalski 23:10

Kronwall 22:53

Stuart 20:13

Ericsson 17:40

Lilja 16:59

I think it's reasonable to expect Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall's times to stay consistent. Let's assume that Lilja is either gone or out for the beginning of the season. Give Stuart his PK time, give Kronwall Stuart's old PK time and give Ericsson the remainder (2:30). Next give Ericsson Samuelsson's PP time and keep his even strength time steady. Now you're looking at 20:43 a night for Ericsson (awesome for his development) and 20:44 for Stuart. In this situation the defensive TOI leaders are still Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart then Ericsson, so Stuart can't complain he's not getting enough time. In fact he'd be getting 30 seconds more per night on the PK. In all likelihood the split of times would favour Stuart a bit more with Ericsson's TOI/game sitting somewhere near 20mins even. Then again, he impressed when given 17:40, there's no reason to believe he doesn't deserve a shot at the numbers I've estimated here.

For the sake of comparison, last season the following rookie d-men got similar ice time:

Doughty 23:49 (3:37 PP, 2:58 PK) (Kings)

Schenn 21:32 (0:16 PP, 3:05 PK) (Leafs)

Alzner 19:25 (0:13 PP, 3:07 PK) (Capitals)

Lee 18:53 (1:17 PP, 1:30 PK) (Senators)

Goligoski 18:18 (4:00 PP, 0:05 PK) (Penguins)

Bogosain 18:06 (1:07 PP, 1:28 PK) (Thrashers)

My proposed times for Ericsson next season:

Ericsson 20:43 (2:44 PP, 2:30 PK)

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