The Value of an Enforcer: Brad May/ The Misunderstood Point Sytem

[Guest micah]

Man, take 50 steps back and look at hockey. Are we full of ******* or what? Pansies and back-fighters who will only mess with someone when they can't defend themselves. I mean looking at it from the human perspective and not as a strategy. How f***in sad is it when ****** bags like Corey Perry only back up their mouth when they think they're up against a softie. The whole "pest" thing to me was just another term for fairy with no guts.

Agreed. I have no real issue with soft players, I take issue with the Perrys and Maltbys of the league (I know it isn't fair to lump Maltby in with Perry, as Perry is a pretty darn good player, but still), guys who talk s*** and refuse to back it up. Yes, I know sometimes it's strategy. So is diving, I don't aprove of that either. Play the game like an honest, respectful man. Play hard, keep your mouth shut if you aren't willing to back up your words. I have little respect for those who talk tough but don't back it up, on or off the ice.

[Guest Shoreline]

"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

You have yet to see it - but Mike Babcock and I see it. Keep looking. Maybe ask a grown up to help you.

I don't see that quote explaining why, other than causality. It's nice to ask questions rather than be a fawning sycophant in the sense you have been, or selectively nitpick quotes that only agree with what you say and nothing else. Want me to pull a quote from Babs saying games aren't going to be won with enforcing but with how one plays between the whistles? Or even Malts saying the enforcer is our power play? Nah, I didn't think so. The argument you made is so easily defeated and without any effort.

Man, take 50 steps back and look at hockey. Are we full of ******* or what? Pansies and back-fighters who will only mess with someone when they can't defend themselves. I mean looking at it from the human perspective and not as a strategy. How f***in sad is it when ****** bags like Corey Perry only back up their mouth when they think they're up against a softie. The whole "pest" thing to me was just another term for fairy with no guts.

So you suggest that there weren't "*******" who went after skill players or merely picked their fights before? I have a nice clip of a goon selectively picking out Yzerman for a fight even with an enforcer on the very same ice. You wanna pretend this never happened in the era that fight-obsessed fans wanna **** to? This is why the "good ol days" mentality is full of crap, no matter what the subject is. You have to distort the past in order to pretend it's better than the present.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Brad May is now day to day with an injury. Guess we'll be finding out his value soon.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

So you suggest that there weren't "*******" who went after skill players or merely picked their fights before? I have a nice clip of a goon selectively picking out Yzerman for a fight even with an enforcer on the very same ice. You wanna pretend this never happened in the era that fight-obsessed fans wanna **** to? This is why the "good ol days" mentality is full of crap, no matter what the subject is. You have to distort the past in order to pretend it's better than the present.

Are you talking about the clip where Kevin Maguire goes after Stevie when there's already a fight on the ice? If so, you should post it, it's a great clip. It shows how Steve Yzerman, a team's top skill player was singled out by another team's top goon and he dropped his gloves and went toe to toe with him and held his own. I seem to remember Probie going and knocking the guy into tomorrow afterwards as well. So, in regard to the post you were responding to, he does have a point. Players back then, no matter their status on the team would stick up for themselves. Certain Wings players these days don't, which is fine, but in a sport where fighting and intimidation is allowed and considered part of the game it doesn't hurt to have a little "fire" in your game.

[Guest Shoreline]

Are you talking about the clip where Kevin Maguire goes after Stevie when there's already a fight on the ice? If so, you should post it, it's a great clip. It shows how Steve Yzerman, a team's top skill player was singled out by another team's top goon and he dropped his gloves and went toe to toe with him and held his own. I seem to remember Probie going and knocking the guy into tomorrow afterwards as well. So, in regard to the post you were responding to, he does have a point. Players back then, no matter their status on the team would stick up for themselves. Certain Wings players these days don't, which is fine, but in a sport where fighting and intimidation is allowed and considered part of the game it doesn't hurt to have a little "fire" in your game.

"Certain" Wings players? Who? Compared to that team? A little less ambiguity please.

Is this a bunch of people not helping one another and taking one for the team? Unless the insinuation is Probert was effective at the end of that with a sucker punch on Maguire when he was down was more helpful than teammates coming to each other's aid in scrums like the end of that Ducks game (which would need an explanation as to why), and what followed, this idea that players are ******* or don't stick up for themselves is rather silly and has no merit at all. All I see so far is a few collective posters having a good ol' fap to some archaic style of hockey played some 2 and 3+ decades ago and making strange rationalizations which don't even make sense as to how it's somehow better we bring back whatever style of play was prominent then. As the case with any people suggesting the 80s or 70s or 60s were "better" for any subject, it's full of s*** really.

[Guest micah]

I don't see that quote explaining why, other than causality.

I don't have the feintest idea what you're getting at, unless you meant "correlation" and not "causality". Causality is the relationship between cause and effect. It is not a synonym for "cause" or "causation". Mike Babcock in that brief quote did not mention cause at all, unless you accept "Brad May" as cause. Of course, the fact that Brad is tough as nails and has a rep for punching people in the head is implied as the cause, but Babs doesn't come out and say it.

Brad May plays, our guys don't get cheap-shotted. Brad May doesn't play and they do.

So you suggest that there weren't "*******" who went after skill players or merely picked their fights before? I have a nice clip of a goon selectively picking out Yzerman for a fight even with an enforcer on the very same ice. You wanna pretend this never happened in the era that fight-obsessed fans wanna **** to? This is why the "good ol days" mentality is full of crap, no matter what the subject is. You have to distort the past in order to pretend it's better than the present.

1) Steve Yzerman says that he started the fight with McGuire. If you say otherwise you're calling steve Yzerman a liar. Stop calling Steve Yzerman a liar.

2) On what planet is Kevin Mcguire a "*****" or a goon? Dude was an okay player, he fought (and got his ass beat) by Jay Miller like 6 times in one season. He was pretty fearless, especially considering his size and he went on to become an NHL referee. I don't think of him as a goon anymore than I think of other tough, blue collar guys (Snepets, Gallant et al) as goons, and he certainly was not known for picking fights with those smaller than him.

I'm sorry that you're either so young as to not know what you're talking about as far as the McGuire/Yerman fight or too much of an internet douchebag to care, but knock it off. there are a few Red Wing fns on this board who actually, you know, paid attention to what people said and did back then.

Someone might come along and ask "Why would Probert get so mad if Steve Yzerman picked the fight on his own?" and the answer is, fighting Yzerman isn't allowed. Fighting Gretzky wasn't allowed either. Good teammates do not let their stars get manhandled, even if they were asking for it. Punching Steve Yzerman when Steve Yzerman invites you to is not a ***** move, but it is a shortsighted one if Probert (or Semenko, or May) is his teammate. Great enforcers do not let anyone rough up their skilled teammates for any reason.

[thedisappearer 291]

As the case with any people suggesting the 80s or 70s or 60s were "better" for any subject, it's full of s*** really.

No ******* way. You are beyond stupid. The Red Wings were INSANELY successful in the 60's, 70's, *and* 80's. They made the playoffs, like, 8 times. BOOYAH! That's TOTALLY what I want.

Oh, wait. Those are the only full decades the Wings never won a Cup. Never mind.

[thedisappearer 291]

I don't have the feintest idea what you're getting at, unless you meant "correlation" and not "causality". Causality is the relationship between cause and effect. It is not a synonym for "cause" or "causation".

You want to argue the finer points and subtleties of definitions, but can't spell 'faintest' correctly.

Cool story, bro.

[Guest micah]

You want to argue the finer points and subtleties of definitions, but can't spell 'faintest' correctly.

Cool story, bro.

Great job referencing a stale internet meme, that stung.

If you were most anyone else, I'd take the fact that I wrote 6 paragraphs in that post and your response was to correct a spelling error I made as proof that my logic is sound. Being that you're, you know, you, I am not at all confident that someone will not come along shortly with a well thought out counter-argument.

Let's stay reasonoably close to being on-topic, okay? Do you take any issue with anything Mike Babcock or I have said in reference to Brad May and/or the "misunderstood" point system?

[thedisappearer 291]

Great job referencing a stale internet meme, that stung.

If you were most anyone else, I'd take the fact that I wrote 6 paragraphs in that post and your response was to correct a spelling error I made as proof that my logic is sound. Being that you're, you know, you, I am not at all confident that someone will not come along shortly with a well thought out counter-argument.

Let's stay reasonoably close to being on-topic, okay? Do you take any issue with anything Mike Babcock or I have said in reference to Brad May and/or the "misunderstood" point system?

Or, you could look at what I responding to, realized I read 3 sentences of your "I'm smarter than you" schtick and realized you are a pompous ******.

PS- More misspellings. I'll bold them for you. When you want to bust balls over words, as you did, please spell them correctly.

PSS- Italicizing "you", in reference to me, is supposed to hurt my feelings, right? Like, you know who I am and what I stand for and who I am as a *person*... and you don't approve? You want to give me s*** for referencing an internet meme ON THE INTERNET but your behavior is mature, adult behavior. Gotcha!

Edited January 2, 2010 by thedisappearer

[newfy 695]

Or, you could look at what I responding to, realized I read 3 sentences of your "I'm smarter than you" schtick and realized you are a pompous ******.

PS- More misspellings. I'll bold them for you. When you want to bust balls over words, as you did, please spell them correctly.

PSS- Italicizing "you", in reference to me, is supposed to hurt my feelings, right? Like, you know who I am and what I stand for and who I am as a *person*... and you don't approve? You want to give me s*** for referencing an internet meme ON THE INTERNET but your behavior is mature, adult behavior. Gotcha!

If you want to bust balls over words then get yours right. I was kind enough to bold yours so that next time you make a post without logic to correct someone's spelling you'll have correct spelling and won't embarrass yourself. PS means post-script. PSS would mean post script script which makes no sense. Its supposed to be post post script.

Quit acting above people beacuse you can spell things right. Congratualtions bro talk about the subject and reply to his point.

But on topic now... That Anaheim brawl was hardly standing up for eachother, Dats got his head punched in by Neidermeyer, Hossa let Getzlaf push him around and back in the Shanny days that would not have happened at thee nd of theg ame. The wings demanded respect back then.

[Guest micah]

Or, you could look at what I responding to, realized I read 3 sentences of your "I'm smarter than you" schtick and realized you are a pompous ******.

I got called a name on the internet.

PS- More misspellings. I'll bold them for you. When you want to bust balls over words, as you did, please spell them correctly.

My spelling errors were exposed on the internet.

PSS- Italicizing "you", in reference to me, is supposed to hurt my feelings, right? Like, you know who I am and what I stand for and who I am as a *person*... and you don't approve? You want to give me s*** for referencing an internet meme ON THE INTERNET but your behavior is mature, adult behavior. Gotcha!

What does "PSS" stand for? I'm not familiar with that one.

Don't flatter yourself, sweatheart. I hold no oppinion of you beyond the oppinion that youknow dick about Red Wings hockey. I try my best to post about hockey, you post about my spelling errors.

So, how about that Brad ******* May, eh?! Did ya notice the way opponents cheap shot our guys less when he's in the lineup like me and Babs do?

[Guest micah]

If you want to bust balls over words then get yours right. I was kind enough to bold yours so that next time you make a post without logic to correct someone's spelling you'll have correct spelling and won't embarrass yourself. PS means post-script. PSS would mean post script script which makes no sense. Its supposed to be post post script.

D'oh! Beaten to the punch!

[thedisappearer 291]

If you want to bust balls over words then get yours right. I was kind enough to bold yours so that next time you make a post without logic to correct someone's spelling you'll have correct spelling and won't embarrass yourself. PS means post-script. PSS would mean post script script which makes no sense. Its supposed to be post post script.

Quit acting above people beacuse you can spell things right. Congratualtions bro talk about the subject and reply to his point.

But on topic now... That Anaheim brawl was hardly standing up for eachother, Dats got his head punched in by Neidermeyer, Hossa let Getzlaf push him around and back in the Shanny days that would not have happened at thee nd of theg ame. The wings demanded respect back then.

Bolded my apology. So sorry I screwed up an abbreviation.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Brad May plays, our guys don't get cheap-shotted. Brad May doesn't play and they do.

Is Ian's run at Lidstrom an anomaly? (I believe that though it was a clean hit Lappy did focus on Lidstrom and attempted to crush him instead of actually worry about the main play itself) Is it perhaps a simple proof that enforcers aren't the be all end all of cheapshotting against specific teams? That can't be proven and I think it is silly to believe either is the case.

There are only a few things that can be proven:

1. Brad May fights

2. Brad May works his ass off

3. Brad May will defend his teammates

4. Brad May will respond to cheap shots towards his star players

5. Brad May provides a spark to the fourth line that was missing last year

That's what should be talked about here. Not the pussification of the Red Wings prior to this year or how Brad May is a goon and has no talent or whatever else people on LGW will discuss.

But on topic now... That Anaheim brawl was hardly standing up for eachother, Dats got his head punched in by Neidermeyer, Hossa let Getzlaf push him around and back in the Shanny days that would not have happened at thee nd of theg ame. The wings demanded respect back then.

The Wings won the next game.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Doc Holliday

[thedisappearer 291]

I got called a name on the internet.

My spelling errors were exposed on the internet.

What does "PSS" stand for? I'm not familiar with that one.

Don't flatter yourself, sweatheart. I hold no oppinion of you beyond the oppinion that youknow dick about Red Wings hockey. I try my best to post about hockey, you post about my spelling errors.

So, how about that Brad ******* May, eh?! Did ya notice the way opponents cheap shot our guys less when he's in the lineup like me and Babs do?

LOL. It's funny when you do it, but rude when someone applies it to you. Got it.

I bolded your continued FAIL.

Wait, stay on topic. Ok. May has been a great addition. He's not gonna play in the playoffs, and he won't help us get there. I still love the guy, and want to see him over Maltby next year. I have not noticed us being cheapshotted less. I never saw it happen too much before. I see people get all pissed when a Wing gets hit cleanly... see Janik's last fight. I think *that* is pathetic.

[thedisappearer 291]

There are only a few things that can be proven:

1. Brad May fights

2. Brad May works his ass off

3. Brad May will defend his teammates

4. Brad May will respond to cheap shots towards his star players

5. Brad May provides a spark to the fourth line that was missing last year

THIS

[newfy 695]

Bolded my apology. So sorry I screwed up an abbreviation.

Yeah the difference is I'm not acting like God because I can spell words. People make typos on the internet as its pretty obvious was the case in my post. Yeah I really don't know how to spell because and I actually thought thee nd of theg ame was how you spelled the end of the game. I for sure didn't just hit the space bar by accident.

Point is I'm not even sure what you're arguing? You were just telling Micah that he couldn't spell and he was still making points about the argument. Just stay on topic bro.

And the Janik fight wasn't started by Janik, you can clearly see the guy skate right by Janik in his ear before they fight.

[thedisappearer 291]

Yeah the difference is I'm not acting like God because I can spell words.

I know. Now tell Micah that. Well, he was dealing in definitions, but I'm willing to lump it together.

[Guest micah]

LOL. It's funny when you do it, but rude when someone applies it to you. Got it.

I don't think you do. I told someone that I did not understand their post because what they said didn't make sense. I didn't say anything about anyone being rude on the internet, nor did I state that I didn't understand the "causation" statement to be "funny".

The PSS bit was flippin' funny though.

[Guest micah]

Is Ian's run at Lidstrom an anomaly? (I believe that though it was a clean hit Lappy did focus on Lidstrom and attempted to crush him instead of actually worry about the main play itself) Is it perhaps a simple proof that enforcers aren't the be all end all of cheapshotting against specific teams? That can't be proven and I think it is silly to believe either is the case.

I'm reading this is "if Brad May prebents cheapshots than why didn't Brad May prevent that clean hit on Lidstrom?" and I really don't understand. Thanks for the helpful picture of what Ian Lapperiere looks like though.

That's what should be talked about here. Not the pussification of the Red Wings prior to this year or how Brad May is a goon and has no talent or whatever else people on LGW will discuss.

Sorry guy, I don't put a whole lot of stock into your opinions as to what should and should not be being discussed here. If people think Brad May is a tallentless hack, why should they not say so in a thread about Brad May? If people like Mike Babcock and I note how Brad May prevents some cheapshots, why not talk about that in a thread about Brad May?

[thedisappearer 291]

I don't think you do. I told someone that I did not understand their post because what they said didn't make sense. I didn't say anything about anyone being rude on the internet, nor did I state that I didn't understand the "causation" statement to be "funny".

The PSS bit was flippin' funny though.

Na-uh, *YOU'RE* being defensive!