NHL.com ranks Hockey's best by their numbers.

[ricky0034 89]

Part 2 (34-66)

Zetterberg, Bertuzzi (mix), Murphy

Part 3 (67-99)

Schneider, Coffey (runner up), Hossa (runner up), Federov, Holmstrom

All those are up there as well.

hasek won for #39 too

[egroen 384]

Hull over Richard? That's fair... close argument, everyone has their picks. I'm sure there are people who would pick Hull then Richard or vice-versa, and left Howe on the in-the-mix list.

Agreed - Richard was the superior playoff performer, but I believe Hull was better at just about everything else, including goal scoring.

LaFleur was a great player. So was Francis. Lafleur played 17 NHL seasons, and scored better than 1 point-per game 9 times. Francis played 23 seasons, and cleared that mark 17 times. In other words, LaFleur missed the mark 8 times while Francis did only 6. While Francis wasn't scoring 130 points in his best years, he also didn't have what is possibly the most stacked lineup ever put together around him, including three Hall-of-Fame defensemen who were also in their prime. Francis played for the Whalers, one of the league's worst and least talented teams for most of his early career, until being traded to the Penguins shortly before their two Cup wins. Mario Lemieux began to miss time out of the season, as Francis was skilled enough to provide the team with a top end center during Lemieux's time off. Francis continued to do well over the rest of his career as Lemieux played less and less, and ended up back with the Whalers, now the Carolina Hurricanes. He carried them for years before they traded him to the Hurricanes in March 2004 as the Leafs were a playoff team and the Canes were already eliminated, and they wanted to let Ronnie Franchise have one more shot. He scored 10 points in 12 games for Toronto and followed through with 4 in 12 in the playoffs.

Beyond that, Francis was an exceptional defensive player and is probably one of the best two-way centers in league history. I have also never seen anyone as good as Francis on faceoffs. Yzerman? Brind'Amour? Oates? Malhotra? Draper? Nieuwendyk? Those guys were and will likely never be Francis-like on faceoffs.

Maybe LaFleur wins. But saying it's a joke is ignorant of the last four decades of hockey.

The question is, are you rating players on their top two or three seasons, or on their whole careers?

I'll typically break down a player by peak, prime and career.

LaFleur easily has the better peak and prime while Francis the better career.... ultimately I have a hard time even considering Francis as the better player when he was never even considered a Top 10 player in the game. LaFleur was considered the greatest player in the world for a good stretch -- I place a lot of weight on that.

Francis played at a time when the center position was unbelievably stacked, but I'm not sure if he was ever even considered a Top 5 center in the world.

He's definitely behind Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman and Messier. You've also got LaFontaine, Oates, Hawerchuk, Statsny, Savard, Gilmour, Turgeon, Fedorov, Forsberg, Lindros, Sundin and Roenick -- Francis' two-way play and intangibles make for a good argument over many of them, but certainly not all of them, especially on a per-year basis. The fact that Francis maintained a high level of play for a very long time (when many did not) bumps him over most of them, but in the specific case of Lafleur - absolutely not. Consistent good play just is not nearly enough to overcome 3 Art Rosses, 2 Harts (3 Pearsons/Lindsays) and a Conn Smythe.

Maybe the Belfour statement answers that it's the first one. Belfour spent most of his career wearing #20 and is more known for wearing #20. He won a Stanley Cup wearing #20 and as a consistent Vezina contender the first few years he wore #20.

Good catch - my mistake!

As far as Draper being "in the mix" for the best ever to wear #33. That's just silly. He is nowhere CLOSE. For one thing, Draper doesn't even come close to the three players who are mentioned (Iafrate, btw, should be the runner-up) and no number higher than eleven has more than three in that list, with many having only two.

Maybe I succombed to homerism, but I really don't have a problem with Draper in the same sentence as Iafrate, Modin and Hogue.

I disagree on Iafrate being the runner-up for sure. He was a 2nd Team all-Star once, while Sedin has now won a Hart. No way. Iafrate had all the tools in the world, but was missing the one in his head. Fast as the wind, incredible size, a monster of a shot -- and he played most of the time like a chicken with his head chopped off. No hockey sense at all.

Draper is easily better defensively than Iafrate, but Al was better offensively -- I just think Draper has had a significant role on 4 Cups, while Iafrate was kind of a disaster (especialy for a 4th overal pick).

Draper has also been a regular for Team Canada, having been selected for World Cup and Championship teams 6 times, while Al made the significantly worse USA Team once. both made their respective Olympics team once - but Draper made it for Team Canada as a pro while Iafrate made Team USA as an amateur.