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Member Since 19 Jan 2004
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#2385105 nhl.com calls Kenny the best GM

Posted by RedWingAbner on 15 April 2013 - 03:31 PM

The new system had nothing to do with Shero constructing his team in fact Ray Shero had little to do with constructing that team, being terrible for a long period of time constructed that team for him. He took over a team that had selected in the top 5, 5 years in a row, with 4 of them being in the top 2. The biggest adversity he's had to face was a problem of his own making when he had to trade Staal away because he couldn't fit all his top 5 picks under the salary cap. Let's see him rebuild the team when those players start retiring, and have him do so without the luxury of having any top 15 draft picks and without missing the playoffs. Maybe then he can start being compared to Holland.

Also if Holland doesn't get any credit for the teams draft choices because he employs a scout who recommends which players to pick, then no team's GM should ever get credit for a draft choice. They all employ scouts.


Below is a list of players drafted while Holland was in charge of amateur scouting. If I follow your logic Holland should get credit for the cups in 97, 98 and 2002 since he drafted the core of those teams. He also made several trades in those years that provided key parts to those cup winning teams.


Yves Racine

Sheldon Kennedy

Mike Sillinger

Nicklas Lidstrom

Sergei Fedorov

Dallas Drake

Vladimir Konstantinov

Keith Primeau

Slava Kozlov

Jason York

Martin Lapointe

Jamie Pushor

Chris Osgood

Mike Knuble

Darren McCarty

Dan McGillis

Anders Eriksson

Mathieu Dandenault

Tomas Holmstrom

Holland is the best GM in the history of the franchise, arguably the best in the history of the NHL, and a guaranteed first ballot Hall of Fame Inductee.


No.  Look at the list of North American names on that list.  They are the players taken in the first 3 rounds.  They are also players Holland personally saw before the Wings drafted them.  It's not hard to hit an NHLer with the first three rounds, and Jesus, during his tenure as head of scouting, our 1st-3rd round drafts were spotty.  Curtis Bowen, Kory Kocur, Jesse Wallin ring a bell?  Throw in the fact that guys like Sillinger, Pushor, etc were high round picks.....whew, glad we had Kenny at the helm for those picks. 


Players in the 5th round on are players he (usually) didn't see play and were found by Hakan Andersson.  Hakan Andersson has made Holland look really good for a really long time.


What, again, has Ken Holland done SINCE the implementation of the salary cap?  He held together a Hakan Andersson found team for a while, then slowly let it crumble away.  The biggest move he's made post-lockout #1?  Bertuzzi?  (I distinctly remember Marian Hossa's agent was the one who called Holland in 2008, and pitched the one-year deal).  Beyond that, it's been a recurring cycle of re-acquiring players who didn't work the first time (Hello, Todd Gill.....Mikael Samuelsson.....Kyle Quincey......Jason Williams.....Ty Conklin.....Joey MacDonald.....)

#2384570 nhl.com calls Kenny the best GM

Posted by RedWingAbner on 14 April 2013 - 01:00 PM

Was this article posted on April 1st?


Was it in the satire section?


Ken Holland.....and the phrase "best GM".....should have a minimum 3-sentence separation, required by law.  (Which I just broke).


The parity of this league means that with shrewd management, any team can win in any year.  Ken Holland has let this team crumble, afraid to do anything of significance, and a could-have-been dynasty has been reduced to the rubble of mediocrity.


There is no more "rebuilding" in this league, save for the horrendous cases (Edmonton).  In any given year, a team can make a few shrewd moves and win.  If Holland was as good as people say he is, given the core we had, we should've been MORE successful.  Pointing to the team's success and saying, "well, it was still better than most" is a cop-out to the fact that it should've been better. 

#2381489 Anyone else liking the pre 2005 more?

Posted by RedWingAbner on 07 April 2013 - 07:26 AM

Uh, yeah....lol.


It was a ton better when there were no salary restrictions.

#2380197 ryan clowe haters

Posted by RedWingAbner on 04 April 2013 - 12:38 PM

k i just checked i guess they took away an assist from clowe but he did have 4 pts when i was watching hockey with friends ... still 2 goals and 3 pts what an awfu ranger debut  ... and comparing cory cross to ryan clowe? seriously man? whats with some people here  , yes he takes bad penalties but he also knocks guys down on there ass and shows up in the post season


goodluck taking on the bruins next year , dont compare when datsyuk and zetterberg keep getting knocked down all the time and all we have is tootoo to show up

yes they gave up too much but we could of offset it a bit by trying to trade white for a pick (still cant believe we didnt trade him) or a miller/eaves for a pick as well and put in clowe


What is up w/some people?  They are convinced, whether they admit it or not, that Wings management reads these boards and always towing the company line will get them a job.  That's the only thing I can think of, because to not criticize this team is ludicrous.


Re: White....I can believe it.  He still is a serviceable depth guy; we are only rebuilding when we don't like prices, all other times, we are trying to maintain a level of mediocrity that will lock in the 7th or 8th seed.  That's the magic of Ken Holland--you get both--no value for players primed to leave but no "overpayment" to get pieces needed for a real run.  Ahh, 1st round playoff exits....drink them in!

#2380157 Holland retirement watch?

Posted by RedWingAbner on 04 April 2013 - 11:07 AM

Those were all great days of promise; Ken Holland's retirement will usher in an era of prosperity and change.  No more "injured coming back=deadline acquisition," no more paying for crap (Quincey, Samuelsson) retreads and calling it "going all in," no more watching superstars of their generation (Yzerman, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg) waste away at the end of their careers because "prices were too high."


For every Brendan Smith there's a Jesse Wallin; I'd much rather give a 1st/2nd and know what I've got (Boumeester) for 6 years than hope a draft pick develops into J-Bo in 6 years.

#2378843 Stars trade Jaromir Jagr to Bruins

Posted by RedWingAbner on 02 April 2013 - 04:50 PM

Way to miss the point (on the Luongo thing).


Ehrhoff is a puck moving defenseman.  40-50 points is not out of the question.  Vanek is a 40 goal scorer.


Are we really worried about what MIGHT be a problem 8-9 years down the road?  Ehrhoff's cap # is $4.0M.  Even at 6 years, that's a decent run.  And as you guys mentioned, he's not physical.....performing to the end of the contract is possible.


It's ok to be a middling team?  Jesus Christ, people.  Do you hear yourselves?  This is supposed to be a team that has one goal, every year--The Stanley Cup. 


You've been brainwashed into accepting mediocrity so that we can be mediocre for 3-4 more years before falling off, rather than a serious contender (now) and dealing with the future as it comes?  If Ken Holland is the genius some make him out to be, why do we have to accept s*** teams?  If we are nearing the end of our window, why not go for it?



#2378817 Stars trade Jaromir Jagr to Bruins

Posted by RedWingAbner on 02 April 2013 - 04:07 PM

I am of the opinion that the Wings won 4 Cups in a span where they should've won 6 or 7.


The Wings are a team very much different than the Flames.  We have a solid support cast; what the team needs is a few more high-end guys.  The price of doing business in this league is a 1st round pick for said players.


Quincey blows; bringing him back for a 1st rounder was stupid.  That doesn't mean that no moves should be made, nor should our first rounder be off limits.  In addition, Bertuzzi was not acquired for a first round pick (Matthias and conditionals).


If I Ken Holland, what would I do?  If I was Ken Holland, I'd do nothing and sit smugly.  If I was GM of the Wings and still myself, however, I'd go out and use a 1st/2nd to get Vanek and Ehrhoff (or some semblance of the two) and shore up my team knowing that my #1 center is only playing 1 more season and my captain is advancing in age.

#2378781 Stars trade Jaromir Jagr to Bruins

Posted by RedWingAbner on 02 April 2013 - 03:41 PM

I am sure I am going to get called all sorts of names for this, but Jesus people, let's just be real.  Ken Holland sucks.


The Wings are constantly in a position to add and he snivels and whines about prices being high.  He has shoveled this BS out so many times that people buy in to "we're not contenders."  Garbage.  St. Louis is adding; LA added last year and won as a f***ing 8th seed.


Ken Holland is not motivated to win championships, he wants to maintain the status quo--his job--and he keeps the Wings just above water to do so.


Datsyuk has a year left; how long is Zetterberg going to be at the level he is?  But just like with Lidstrom, Yzerman, et all.....Kenny will just let their careers wind down without adding b/c he's a *****.

#2264047 2012 NHL Trade Deadline Thread - February 27th, 3:00 PM ET

Posted by RedWingAbner on 27 February 2012 - 03:24 PM

Ken Holland strikes again!

How did this team get better over the last few weeks? Quincey is an upgrade, but does it really excite you that we are now looking at Brendan Smith as a possible playoff defenseman? Jesus, keep Commodore, at least he's got some experience.

But once again, super Kenny Holland sits on his laurels, hopes for a miracle, gets paid the same..........notice how his protege, Steve Yzerman, made moves to improve his club.

#2263868 2012 NHL Trade Deadline Thread - February 27th, 3:00 PM ET

Posted by RedWingAbner on 27 February 2012 - 02:35 PM

This deadline is enough to bring me out of the shadows.....

Ken Holland has got to be the luckiest GM in the NHL. Don't flame it before you read on. Hakan Andersson is the scout who found the core of the late draft steals--Lidstrom, Holmstrom, Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg, etc.

With arguably the greatest defenseman of all-time, Ken has been content to just let years slide away. So what if the asking price for Parenteau is a 1st. Oh no! Hold onto that so we can get another Jakub Kindl! Hey, maybe we can grab a guy that Kenny waived for a first....is Matt Ellis on the block?

Last I checked, Mike Illitch paid the bills and the players played. Ken Holland has been more of a hindrance to this dynasty than an asset.

That said, if he pulls off a deal for a 3rd liner, I take this all back.

#2006875 Rafalski Considered "top six signings since the 2005-06 season

Posted by RedWingAbner on 29 June 2010 - 09:11 PM

Who wrote the article, Mommy Rafalski?

The year we signed Raffy we won the Stanley Cup. It is what it is, you do that signing over and over.

Yeah, I also lived in a craphole rental in New Port Richey, FL. Should I go back because they won the Cup that year? I know it's an extreme example, but people become almost religious about moves made during a Cup year. Sometimes, a team wins in spite of them. Rafalski was good that year and has mostly been an offensive #5 defenseman made to look better by Nick Lidstrom since then....with glaring defensive lapses. I'd rather have signed Schneider to the 2-year deal.

#1981787 Let's Talk About the Refereeing

Posted by RedWingAbner on 09 May 2010 - 01:03 AM

This was the first best-of-seven I've seen where the losing team won 1, the winning team won 2, and the officials won 2 and donated them to the "winners."

#1981761 Who do you cheer for now?

Posted by RedWingAbner on 09 May 2010 - 12:45 AM

Can we root for a career ending injury for Crosby--executed by Cooke trying to go dirty on someone else?

In any event, go Habs.

#1981716 We got more out of you thread.....

Posted by RedWingAbner on 09 May 2010 - 12:29 AM

There are several players on the team this year that did more than I expected they would.
Helm, for one, showed that his ability to rag the puck is spectacular--not just something that was a one-off
Eaves did a great job in his role. It was unfortunate he was out for the last few games.

Miller was an awesome pickup and cheap. I'd like him to be back, if he can be signed for $600K or so
Osgood did impress me with his ability to put his pride on the shelf. Not much with his play.
Did anyone think that Justin Abdelkader would provide the spark that he did? I knew he was a good role guy, but he impressed

I think that overall, the Wings have a decent core of depth guys.
Supposing that we can retain the above, I think that we have only to fill in some secondary scoring roles.

Any mention of this topic would be remiss without mentioning Nick Lidstrom. Odd as it sounds, he did step it up in the playoffs.

For me, there were just several guys that I had pegged one way that did much more.
Anyone that comes to mind for anyone else? Jimmy Howard would be another guy. I know I'm rambling a bit.
Goodnight all! Hope that this is not seen as an offensive thread. Good season Wings.

#1974938 WCSF Game 3 GDT: Sharks 4 at Red Wings 3

Posted by RedWingAbner on 04 May 2010 - 08:24 PM