Jump to content


sibiriak's Photo

sibiriak

Member Since 07 Sep 2005
Offline Last Active Mar 02 2015 08:04 PM
-----

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Lindros suing Paul Stewart

26 February 2015 - 10:33 PM

Lindros donated a lot of money to University Hospital in London Ontario for Sports Medicine. I wouldn't say he was a total dick off the ice that doesn't support charity. 

 

On the ice - yeah I can't speak to that. 

Wasn't that for traumatic head injury research? The kind of injury he had?


In Topic: Larionov on NHL/AHL stifling creative play.

24 February 2015 - 12:00 PM

 

 

 

In the paragraph above you've basically said, if you don't count the Soviets' best teams and players, and you don't count the advantage they gain from being forced to play together all the time, and you don't count the junior hockey records, then it's clear the Soviet system is much worse.  Which is probably true, but what does that really tell you?

Actually I am saying that we don't have enough information to say which style of play was superior in the 70s and 80s.

There were too few "best vs best" or even "average vs average" matchups between Canadian/NHL and Soviet teams. So I can't draw any evidence-based conclusions. Therefore we are left with personal taste, I enjoyed the CSKA and Soviet National team brand of hockey more than the NA version, but that is just an aesthetic preference  and not a basis for awarding superiority. Just like some men preferring blonds and some preferring brunettes doesn't make one superior to the other.


In Topic: Larionov on NHL/AHL stifling creative play.

24 February 2015 - 03:58 AM

I'm on my phone, so I can't look it up right now...but I'm sure you can determine which type of hockey philosophy is superior. Look at all the times the Russian national and junior teams played north american teams and count the record, then weight that record based on the type of ice and rules they played under in eaach instance. My guess is the soviet team is a clear winner, but I'm just speculating.

Not really. First, one needs to take into account the fact that Olympics and Sr World Championships before 1990s featured all the top Soviet (half of whom were drafted into the CSKA team and so had an advantage in team chemistry because they played together a lot) and Czech players playing against the NA teams featuring only players free from playoffs, so probably missing at least half of their top players. (This also applies to Sweden and Finland to a lesser degree.) So results of those are not representative.

The Soviet club teams that would tour NA over Christmas seasons were always the top 4 in the domestic league, and often were reinforced by top players from other Soviet club teams specifically for those games. Even so, only CSKA had a consistent winning record against NHL teams. Dinamo, Soviet Wings, Spartak, and Khimik had losing records.

IIRC, the junior record is about 50/50 between Soviet Union and Canada, and here again Canada was often missing their best young players due to their being busy in the NHL.

So, no I don't think Soviet style was superior. The elite 20 guys could execute those beautiful drop passes and circle back in the neutral ice to keep puck control. But if your average Soviet club team tried that, a more likely result would have been a turnover and an odd man rush against. In fact, apart from 4 top clubs in the USSR (who assembled all the country's top players), all other Soviet club teams tended to play counterattacking defensive style, because they couldn't compete with the top clubs in run and gun.

My hometown team Sibir Novosibirsk played two game back-to-back home series against 4 top Moscow teams in (IIRC) 1975. They compiled a 3-5 record, the pattern being they would win the first of the back-to back games by circling the wagons in their own zone and hoping for a lucky break on a counter. Then the visiting team would figure them out and a double digit shellacking would follow. So a typical score was 3-2 win in the first game followed by a 12-2 loss in the second.


In Topic: Larionov on NHL/AHL stifling creative play.

23 February 2015 - 05:09 PM

Except for maybe 3-4 top lines (20 top players in USSR) on few top Soviet teams, other Soviet players couldn't produce the same artistry on ice, due to lack of overwhelming skill. Yes, the overall style was a bit more E-W in Russia and N-S in NA, but neither proved obviously superior or even more entertaining, IMO.

Igor is simply being nostalgic. I share his fond memories of what top Russian players could do (somewhat helped by the fact that apart from 87 Canada Cup finals, they usually met inferior opponents). I just don't think it is possible to recreate this now without assembling top players on one team and have them play many games together and practice even more. In other words, by recreating the same Red Army system that Larionov, Fetisov and Co. hate so much. :P


In Topic: Give Patrick Hersley a shot?

26 January 2015 - 10:49 PM

 

St Louis started playing NHL hockey in his mid 20's, long before Hersley at 28. He also grew to become an all star hart winning player. Something Hersley will never be.

 

AGAIN I'm asking you for a hersley example? Lemme guess, you don't have one?

I don't want to ruin a perfectly good argument, but ... Rafalski ...    :)