kipwinger

I was reading an article by Chuck Klosterman recently, and thought this would be a fun discussion. It's simple, identify the nemesis AND archenemy for various Red Wings. But first, a few points of clarification... "You're probably asking yourself, How do I know the difference between my nemesis and my archenemy? Here is the short answer: You kind of like your nemesis, despite the fact that you despise him. If your nemesis invited you out for cocktails, you would accept the offer. If he died, you would attend his funeral and--privately--you might shed a tear over his passing. But you would never have drinks with your archenemy, unless you were attempting to spike his gin with hemlock. If you were to perish, your archenemy would dance on your grave, and then he'd burn down your house and molest your children. If this distinction seems confusing, just ask your girlfriend to explain it in detail; women have always intuitively grasped the nemesis/archenemy dichotomy. Every woman I've ever known has had at least one close friend whose only purpose in life is to criticize her actions, compete for the attention of men, and drive her insane; very often, this is a woman's best friend. Every woman also has a former friend (usually someone from high school with large breasts) whom she has loathed for years (and whom she will continue to loath with the intensity of a thousand suns, even if she sees her only once every ten years). This is her archenemy. Women intrinsically understand human dynamics, and this makes them unstoppable. In the 1980s, Larry Bird's nemesis was Magic Johnson, and it was always beautiful when they tangled. But Bird's archenemy wasn't Magic; it was Isiah Thomas. When the Celtics played the Pistons, it was a train wreck, and it went deeper than basketball: In 1987, Isiah supported Dennis "Rush" Rodman when he claimed Bird was famous only because he was white. Larry forgave Isiah in public, but he still iced him in the end; the first thing Bird did after becoming president of the Pacers was fire Zeke as head coach. Steve Jobs is Bill Gates's nemesis, but if Gates had only one bullet in his revolver, he'd shoot David Boies. J.R. Ewing was at war with nemesis/brother Bobby for twelve seasons (thirteen if you count the year Victoria Principal dreamed he was dead), but Cliff Barnes was the true Minotaur of Southfork. Jack White turned Von Bondies singer Jason Stollsteimer's face into a speed bag, but Stollsteimer barely even deserves nemesis stature; White's archenemy is Ryan Adams (although he'd be better off if it were Julian Casablancas of the Strokes). The Joker was Batman's nemesis, but--ironically--his archenemy was Superman, since Superman made Batman seem entirely mortal and generally nonessential. Nobody likes to admit this, but Batman hated Superman." So, name the nemesis AND archenemy for any or all of the following: 1. The Red Wings Organization 2. Steve Yzerman 3. Nick Lidstrom 4. Chris Osgood 5. Pavel Datsyuk 6. Ken Holland 7. Mike Ilitch 8. Henrik Zetterberg 9. Johan Franzen 10. Darren McCarty

We just played three of the best teams in the league. So win one lose one doesn't break my heart.

I still hate Pulkkinen, even while eating my heaping helping of crow.

Anybody notice how much kindl is playing?

I hate Pulkkinen.

Zetterberg dives a lot and doesn't get caught? I never noticed.

Also, the thing that annoys me about articles like that is that it completely ignores the fact that contracts aren't given out for production only. Nobody bats an eye when a player with good production (but a bad attitude) makes a little less than they otherwise would. That just seems normal. But it seems crazy to everyone involved when a guy with modest point production (but a great attitude) makes a little more than he otherwise would. It's not the best contract on earth, but it's a far cry from the worst.

I don't think Puck Daddy is the St. James of Yahoo. She's not critical at all. If anything, Puck Daddy (and especially Lambert) are OVERLY critical in an attempt to keep up their snarky, smartassy, personas.

Dang, I wonder if fans from other teams are going to start saying the Wings are divers the way we say it about means like Boston, Vancouver, and San Jose? Maybe they always have.

Chicago seems to do pretty well with one elite center and a bunch of good wingers. And I completely disagree about the defense too. Kronwall has consistently put up as good, or better, seasons that guys like Keith, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Suter. They're all obvious number 1 defensemen, but he's not? Seems like you're deliberately distorting things in order to validate your premise, that Holland sucks. Our team isn't on a "downward spiral". We've had plenty of good talent over the years. We've got one of the best prospect pools in the league. And we're in a healthy cap situation. Unless you're the one spinning it. In which case we're a cellar team, with a garbage prospect pool, and no future. lol. Whatever man. You win. We suck.

Lol. Apparently all Holland has to do to get some respect is to personally scout, draft, develop, acquire, train, and coach each and every player on the team. That's all. Totally reasonable.

That's right, he was only the Assistant GM when Shanahan was acquired. I guess I was exaggerating a bit. He wasn't responsible for ALL of the Hall of Famers that played for Detroit during that period. Just most of them.

Which downward spiral? If anything we've plateaued. Plateaued as a playoff team. Which is hardly a "downward spiral". Also, I think there are plenty of "signs of reversing". Nyquist, Dekeyser, Tatar, Larkin? Are those guys chopped liver? I thought they were top young players. It seems like you're only going to be happy if Holland magically figures out how to transition from prime Datsyuk and Zetterberg to prime someone else without transitioning at all. Which is absurd. Remember the four years between 2002 and 2006 when we were first and second round fodder for teams like Edmonton? All our established stars were getting old or leaving, and our young guys hadn't stepped up yet? We were in a downward spiral right?

Make the playoffs for the last five years. Bottom half of GMs. Lol. Only on LGW. Again, just to clarify. Holland "took over" a team full of Hall of Famers that HE DRAFTED. And then he acquired like 5 more Hall of Famers. The only Hall of Famer he had nothing to do with was Yzerman.

I think that he's saying Nyquist draws a lot of penalties by diving and often not getting caught. Or at least that's how I interpreted it. Anyway, shame on Pulkkinen. I hate that s*** and I'm glad he got caught.

Tyler Wright. And he deserves the lion's share of the draft successes and failures since 2013 (mostly successes). That's how it works. If Holland is in charge of scouting and drafting players in 1989 (he was) and we have a ton of success in that area, then he gets the credit. If he's in charge of putting together an NHL roster (and he has been since 1997), and we go to the playoffs every year, the Cup finals 5 times, and win 4 championships, then he deserves credit. Holland is demonstrably the most successful GM in the NHL. By a mile. More championships, more wins, more playoffs, more everything. The core of the teams he won with were scouted, drafted, and developed by him. The key free agent acquisitions during that time? Him too. Aside from hiring Scotty Bowman and drafting Yzerman, there was not a single part of those dynasty teams that wasn't directly the result of Ken Holland. Lidstrom, Fedorov, Osgood, McCarty, Konstantinov, Larionov, Fetisov, Shanahan, Hasek, Chelios, Hull, Robitaile. All of them were Red Wings, in one way or another, as a result of Ken Holland. And he has the rings to show for it. Four of them. Maybe. But I think people get too hung up on the NTCs. I've been guilty of it too, so I'm not pointing fingers. Who cares if he gives an NTC to a guy he's never going to trade in the first place? It's a bad idea to give one to Mikael Samuelsson. It's not a bad idea to give one to Abby. Holland has no intention of trading him, ever, so why not give him one in exchange for a smaller dollar amount? It's just negotiating leverage.

Wings: 5 (Tatar (2), Zetterberg, Nyquist, Kronwall) San Jose: 3 Lots of scoring tonight. LGW! It's a free for all!

I don't really think that Abby had Holland over a barrel though. I think the contract is a little long sure. But I don't think Holland had no choice. If he'd have played hardball he surely could have gotten Abby down on term. It's not like Abdelkader wants to play anywhere else. He's "all in" on the Red Wings mythos. I think Holland gave Abby a long term deal because A) he knows and believes that Abby is a future team leader, B) He's doing the hometown kid a solid for putting in an honest effort every single day, C) he's sending a message to future high end players that he'll scratch their backs in the long run if they cut him a break on their bridge contracts.

1. The Red Wings Organization: 1995-2002 Avalanche (arch); 1995-2002 New Jersey Devils (Nemesis) 2. Steve Yzerman: Sergei Fedorov (arch); Joe Sakic (nemesis) 3. Nick Lidstrom: ? 4. Chris Osgood: The long floater (arch), Dominic Hasek (nemesis) 5. Pavel Datsyuk: ? 6. Ken Holland: ? 7. Mike Ilitch: Peter Karmanos (arch); Dan Gilbert (nemesis) 8. Henrik Zetterberg: The Selke Trophy (arch), Datsyuk (nemesis) 9. Johan Franzen: ? 10. Darren McCarty: Sobriety (arch), Lemieux (nemesis) A couple of these are actually kinda tough.

Know what else he did? Hired Hakan Andersson. And Jim Nill. Not Bowman though. He's the responsibility of the other much aligned front office guy, Devellano. If I'm understanding the argument correctly. A whole bunch of other people made Ken Holland successful. But not him. Despite the fact that he's the one who went out and found all these other people. And somehow that's NOT exactly what a good manager would do.

You know what Ken Holland was doing during the fabled class of 1989 draft? Scouting and drafting them. He was the Director of Amateur Scouting. You know what those other guys where doing for the Wings organization in 1989? Nothing. They didn't work here yet. If you're going to attribute his success to that class, fine. Give him credit for scouting and drafting them since, ya know, he did that. He's literally the only person you mentioned who had anything at all to do with getting those guys into Red Wings sweaters.

Someone already said that. And yes, yes he can lol. Or maybe Pulkkinen was just being a pantywaist like Echophilia said above.

I realize he doesn't average over two goals a game. I was exaggerating for effect. However, I'm not sure that we made a strategic decision to leave Ovechkin uncontested. And if we did, it worked. At least for now. So I'm not sure what else we should have done. Played him the way everybody else does? Everybody else he scores on regularly, that is. There's no good way to cover him. But I don't think that means Blashill specifically chose NOT to cover him. He's just really really really good. And his whole team was feeding him, so get got a bunch of shots. Won't happen again I'm sure.

Well you've certainly got to admire his commitment to being a bonehead. He's got moxie. He's like the Cool Hand Luke of dummies.

Smith and Pulkkinen get scrappy in practice? Lol. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/11/tempers_flare_between_teemu_pu.html I'd call Smith a ****** for going after one of the smallest guys in the league, but he did go after the biggest too, so maybe he's indiscriminate. Either way, looks like Riley's brother is all in on trying to earn a solid spot in the lineup. That or he's dumb. Really, really, really, dumb.