kipwinger

Is that what I said lol? I could have sworn I said I'd take Yandle, and leave Myers (and the other two) in the dust bin. Unlike much of the NHL watching masses, I'm not mesmerized by big guys just because they're big. He's an underachiever who makes too much money. I want producers, not question marks.

None of Petry, Bogosian, or Myers is noticeably better than Brendan Smith, and all of them are worse than our top three defensemen. As such, I'm not willing to give very much in trade. I'm definitely not losing the first goal scoring winger (with size) that we've developed in ten years for a new fourth best defenseman. Yandle sure. He's legit. But just say "no" to the still-waiting-to-reach-their-potential club.

Either that or The Fourth Period is just recycling content year after year.

Of course they ask for first rate players, doesn't mean they expect to get them. That's negotiating. I have a hard time believing that GMs across the league ask for premium prices from Holland, but ask for considerably less from everyone else. Apart from anything else, it's a terrible negotiation strategy because it ensures you'll A) never trade with a team that's renowned for the quality of their prospects, and B) in the event that your player is actually worth a guy like Mantha, you're asking for less than he's worth from 28 other teams.

I've got to disagree with you there buddy. I don't think it would take that much. The last three players of that quality to get traded were Bobby Ryan, Jason Spezza, and Ryan Kesler, and none of them went for that kind of return. Actually, not even close to that really.

Rumor from The Fourth Period today... "As it has been well documented, the Red Wings have expressed interest in Buffalo Sabres defenseman Tyler Myers... It's believed Holland has also inquired about Arizona Coyotes rearguard Keith Yandle, who remains unlikely to be moved and Winnipeg Jets blueliner Zach Bogosian." In the order that they're listed...Nope. Yep. Nope.

Qwuintzy Suxssss!!!!!!!!

I think the point is that Holland shouldn't get credit for anything...ever.

I largely agree, but you're right, I hate that third line. Weiss isn't going to get going if you give him two linemates who have never played on the wing for any significant amount of time, and haven't ever really been known for offensive production when at their natural positions. Putting Weiss with nonscorers means he's got to shoulder the offensive load, which is the exact opposite of easing him into it until his confidence returns. Give him wingers or trade/waive him. Carolina would pick him up tomorrow (all their centers are hurt and they suck). Anyway, heading out for the night. Good talking to you though.

The GM has had the exact same philosophy since he took over the position in 1997 and it's been pretty successful. I'm not sure why you think he should change it for the coach all of a sudden. We have drafted and developed based on skill for 20+ years. Our organization (from top to bottom) is founded upon it, our scouts are some of the best in the world at seeing a guy like Gustav Nyquist and imagining what he'll be when he matures. You want them to stop doing that and change the whole organizational philosophy because you don't like it? So what? It works. Secondly, stop with the ******* hyperbole will you? Nobody "traded the future" for anything. We've got so many NHL ready prospects we can't get them all into the lineup, and we've got even better prospects coming. It would be a lot easier to talk to you if didn't constantly distort reality to justify some anodyne point you're stuck on for the day.

I don't think so. Not every team has an elite defenseman, and yet we don't ever seem to create goals by forechecking other teams hard. We've got pretty good forecheckers. Remember Helm giving Jovanovski fits a few years back? If it was the Achilles heel of pretty much every defender on every team I'd expect to see some positive results for our team. But I suspect we don't forecheck hard because that would increase the likelihood that teams (not all of whom have anything close to elite defensemen) would create offense going the other way...and our defensemen aren't good enough to deal with a steady diet of odd man rushes. Teams do it to us for the same reason we don't do it to them. Their defensemen are better than ours.

Not necessarily. Babs buried Legwand on the fourth line wing last year and it had nothing to do with injuries or effectiveness. When he demoted him Legwand was centering the best offensive line we had all season. So, there's always the chance that Babs just doesn't like the guy, regardless of how much he could help, or how well he plays.

I'm not mad as long as we're winning. I just don't think it's some big mystery why we're not scoring much. And I completely agree with you that those guys have been impressive. They've played the game they're supposed to. That game just happens not to be very offensive. Ideal lines... Z-Pav-Jurco Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist Abby-Sheahan-Tatar Miller-Helm-Glendening Kronwall-Ericsson Smith-Dekeyser Quincey-Kindl That's with everyone healthy and no roster changes. Obviously, if I could start waiving guys and promoting guys then it would change a little, but not much.

Annoying Babcock quote of the day... "I think we've played hard, we've played well. We've been in 10 games now, we haven't scored. So, eight in the exhibition and then two in the regular season and you don't score real easy so far. We're looking forward to Pavel (Datsyuk) to get back one day and get guys back in their right spots and we might score a little more. I'm impressed with how hard we work. I'm impressed with our specialty teams, impressed with our team speed. We've got to finish more." Think that has anything to do with the fact that you're dressing Abby, Helm, Miller, Glendening, Andersson, and Nestrasil? I mean, what a surprise that your first line produced more when you replaced Abby with Nyquist. Hard to believe putting offensive players in offensive situations yields offense. If you want more offensive maybe send "Nesty" back down for someone who can score, or get Andersson off the wing (or off the team), or try plugging Weiss in...ya know...because he's been consistently good offensively his entire career. Just a couple of thoughts anyway.

Maybe, but if you transition well then teams generally won't forecheck as hard for fear of giving up odd man rushes. Our defense doesn't get the puck up very well, so teams don't have to worry about laying back. They seem to press hard knowing that they're not going to get burnt deep. And even if that's the same game plan everyone has, we seem to be especially susceptible to it for a couple of seasons now.

It's an easy play to get incensed about because it was the game winner and it was there was a questionable no call. But, truth be told it was flukey and it'll even out at some point. Much more troubling to me were the two seemingly routine plays that ended up in the back of our net. Howard and Smith's turnovers were both due to an inability to handle the forecheck effectively. It's a problem we had last year too. Babs needs to get that sorted out pronto, because unlike flukey no-calls, and defensemen toe picks, this problem is likely to repeat itself over and over as other teams realize the best way to beat Detroit is to forecheck the hell out of us.

Boychuk is a good defenseman, don't get me wrong, but he's a lot like Brent Seabrook. He's good defensively, good enough offensively, and worked well within the system he was playing in. That said, he's not a superstar and shouldn't get paid like one.

I generally agree with a lot of your posts, but I hate your lines up there. You've got one of the best playmaking centers and passers in the league (some say in the history of the league) and you're giving him two former centers who have never played significantly on the wing. You're completely negating the advantage you have by lining up Datsyuk at center. This is one thing that the Red Wings, and a lot of our fans do too much of in my opinion. Ideally, you don't want Datsyuk scoring too many goals himself. You want him setting up goals. And he can't with Weiss and Helm on the wing. It's a little bit like having Ovechkin on a line with guys who can't pass well. He's got an elite skill at one timing the puck, which is lost of nobody can pass it to him. Same with Datsyuk. He's an elite playmaker. But he can't make plays if guys can't finish them. Both of Datsyuk's best statistical seasons came when he had a legit scoring threat on his wing (Zetterberg and Hossa).

Lol. Is that what you said to begin with? You went from "Smith had the best offensive stats" to "Smith had the best 5 on 5 stats" and now you're at "Smith had the best 5 on 5 stats per minute played". Just stop. This is a bad joke. You intentionally misrepresented reality in order to validate some preconceived notion you had. Then you got called on it. And now you're scrambling to try and make it look like you were full of b.s. to begin with. But you were. You definitely were.

Oh, is that what you said originally? And actually he didn't 5 on 5 or otherwise. He was third on the team in 5 on 5 points, behind Kronwall and Dekeyser. So no matter how much you said it, you're wrong. Over and over and over again. And it give me so much satisfaction to say so. You. Are. Wrong. Brendan Smith did not have the best offensive stats, 5 on 5 or otherwise.

Exactly.

Oh, so he didn't "have the best offensive stats" then?

For a foreigner?

What do you mean he had "the best offensive stats"? Which stats would those be?

You'd think we lost 8-1.