kipwinger

1. Zetterberg's on pace to have a good season every year (almost). Who cares? Last year Alexander Steen was on pace to outscore Ovechkin for about 20 games. On pace really doesn't mean s***. 2. Prefer whatever you want. I'd prefer to actually have a top line winger (and not a third line center) on the top line. Also, as I've said a couple times already: Sure putting Helm on the first line "is worth a try". But this is a professional hockey team, running a business. If they don't have a better strategy for success than "it's worth a try", we're in trouble. 3. If Stafford is a rental he can't block anybody long term. Short term he wouldn't block anybody on the current roster because you'd have to trade to get him. One in, one out. Also, you could just waive any of Andersson, Glendening, or Cleary as well. Nothing about acquiring one guy would block those two. However, my point was mostly that he's been available for as long as we've been trying this stupid "bottom six grinder" to top line winger experiment. 4. Lets not go anointing Nestrasil some kind of up and comer just yet. He's (so far) yet to show he can even play consistently in the AHL, let alone the NHL . He had a good camp which is good. But if you're reluctant to take on a proven NHL player like Stafford because you aren't sure how that affects a guy like Nestrasil, then you've got some pretty funny priorities. Look, all I'm saying is that if you need a top line winger...go get a top line winger (or promote one). Abby and Helm are bottom six players. No amount of line adjusting changes their skill set. If you want a top line winger who's biggish, physically tough, and can score ok...go get a guy like Stafford. If you want a guy who's fast, defensively responsible, and can score a little...go get Vrbata. If you want bottom six grinders who are defensively responsible and chip in middling offense...go get Abby or Helm. The organization is trying to turn them into something they aren't, and it's detrimental to the team.

I thought parity was supposed to mean that different teams wouldn't be prohibited from winning based on their inability to spend as much money as other teams. I don't think anyone ever said, or believed, that parity meant all teams would have an equal chance of winning. Of course they wouldn't. Drafting, development, coaching, etc. are different for all organizations around the league. Parity was just supposed to make sure there were no New York Yankees in hockey (e.g. a team with marginal drafting, development, coaching, etc. but EXCELLENT player acquisition).

I was talking about Tatar. Do you really think keeping him out of the lineup for the first part of last season was a strategy to get him going?

I agree. And as I've already stated, I know the roster will change. I'm just not going to be excited about our roster until it looks something like that (although, probably not with Weiss on the wing lol). Getting rid of the garbage will go a long way toward making this team something credible again. Holland (and Babs) ability to keep those guys out of the lineup as much as possible is going to be a story I follow throughout this season.

Do you really think it was some sort of strategy to make him hungrier to take a spot? Seems like it was just the last vestiges of Babs' "tie goes to the vet" philosophy.

I know it was. You clearly thought, based on things I've said over the years, that I wanted a skilled, goal scoring, forward to play BOTH spots on defense. I can see why you'd think that based on the fact that I like Alexander Semin. Totally legitimate. You're obviously not being obtuse. Not at all.

I completely agree. I wasn't suggesting he doesn't have serious issues. I was just suggesting that in a system that allowed him to skate with the puck would ease some of the pressure coming on the forecheck (which I agree is his biggest weakness). It seems like in Babs' system they don't want the defensemen skating the puck up the ice. Watch us play and anytime the defense gains possession of the puck he stops, allows the forwards to regroup, and then they move the puck up the ice as a five man unit. I don't have a problem with this, but it does force the defensemen to make stationary passes, which in turn leaves them vulnerable to a strong forecheck. Obviously Kindl isn't good at this, so he struggles. He'll never be great, but I do think he'd be better in a system that allowed him to skate and make plays up the ice rather than wait and be exposed to the forecheck.

That's exactly right, I'd prefer 5 Semins. Way to have an adult dialogue about it.

I mean, I don't want to be overly pessimistic. I know that the lineups will change and the roster will look a lot different in a couple of months. I just long for the days when we could go into a season without obvious holes and/or huge question marks. In general I'm happy with the integration of Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, and (eventually) Quellet. I just still don't think it's enough. As long as we've got fourth line talent on the other three, I'm going to be hopeful...yet not satisfied.

I think he'd be fine on a team that let him be offensive all the way. He can skate and shoot. He's just no good in Babs' system because Babs' doesn't want offense out of his defense...he wants a very particular type of offense (the kind Kronwall, Lids, and Rafalski provided). That's why Kindl struggles, and that's why Smith often struggles. If he played a wide open, run and gun, style of hockey I'd take Kindl. Someone like Tampa or Carolina would treat him well.

Lol.

Honestly, the part that irritates me isn't that they're playing. They've all got some value (if used correctly). What gets my goat is the the organization has everyone around here so hoodwinked that they actually buy it when Abby gets put on the top line and we hear "Dats wants Abby to pull the piano". Or "Helms speed will be killer on the forecheck". All us monkeys nod our heads in agreement and then wonder why Dats and Z's production falls to the floor. Want a guy who can "pull the piano" AND produce in top six? The Sabres have been trying to trade Drew Stafford for two years. He's not a superstar but he's WAY better than Abdelkader. Want a guy who can use speed on the forecheck and produce in the top six? You've got at least two of them toiling away on your third line (Tatar and Jurco). Or you could have signed someone like Radim Vrbata (a possession monster) who consistently produces offense while being defensively responsible. Nope, Helm and Abby. That's the way to the promised land. Ugh.

I'm not fine with any professional hockey team that realistically plans to use all of Abdelkader, Helm, Miller, Glendening, and Andersson. Nevermind Nestrasil, he'll be gone in a week or two. Three...maaaaaaybe four of those guys could play on my team. But not all of them. We've got mediocre talent eating up a lot of roster spots and minutes. Until we don't, this team will stay mediocre. "But...but...but...Kip, Mike Babcock says Darren Helm and Justin Abdelkader are too good to be on the fourth line". So what? Kris Draper won the Selke, scored more than either of them, and played on the fourth line for most of his career. Ice a real roster or lose games. It's pretty simple.

Tatar did not play one single second in the AHL last year.

Classy. Atta boy Alex. That little girl was freaking adorable.

The Panthers?

Dude, you're must making s*** up now. You're now saying "I'm not talking about jumping Scuderi", but in your earlier post you said "I don't think he would have asked Scuderi if he wanted to go or not, Scuderi's only choice would have been defend yourself or else". Just stop already. Your position on fighters is tenuous, at best, and it's made much worse when you say contradictory things and act like we're all too stupid to notice. You absolutely WERE talking about jumping Scuderi, you're just changing your tune now because you realize it was a dumb thing to say in the first place.

Oh, enforcers are better at some other part of the game than our fourth line? What's that? Fighting? Well that doesn't sound like circular logic at all does it? We should sign a fighter because they're better at fighting than non-fighters. Smart. Unless you weren't talking about fighting. Which part of the game are enforcers better at again? Taking penalties? If the mass waiving of goons like Orr and McLaren this offseason wasn't already an indication that having enforcers no your roster is retarded, wait until the end of the season and see how Calgary did with their enforcer fourth line. We already know it will give Krys Barch a boner, but outside of that I suspect that the team will stink and the line itself will be putrid statistically. But here's the kicker. That's what Burke wants. He want a s***ty team so he can draft McDavid. And while his team is s***ty, he'd like to sell some tickets, so he goons it up. This isn't a strategy to be a good team. It's a marketing ploy to be a bad team but still excite dummies like Krys Barch. Apparently it worked.

So being worse is preferable? It seems like you're arguing that because we weren't great at something last year, we shouldn't care about it, and make it even worse by adding a fighter. Smart.

I'm sure Drew Miller would prefer to play against Krys Barch 82 games a year too. Who wouldn't want to line up across from a guy who can barely skate and only has a rudimentary understanding of how to actually play the game of hockey? Glendening and Andersson? Yes, yes they do.

I do too, we'll get a good scoring chance out of the deal.

I'm not sure why you think that Ouellet being on the team would have any affect on either of those forwards. It wouldn't. If Quellet had stayed up then KH would have had to waive one defenseman. Likely, it would have been Kindl or Lashoff. But in lieu of Babs' strange "Kindl and Lash are safe" comments and "we're not looking for bottom pair help, we're looking for top four help" comments, I'm starting to wonder if the organization didn't see Ouellet as competing with Smith and/or Quincey and not Kindl and Lashoff. Maybe the reason Quellet was sent down was because KH was reluctant to cut Smith or Quincey, and not Lash and Kindl as we're all assuming. Edit: I know technically he could go with 8 defenders. But since he hasn't reliably done so since becoming the GM I'm assuming he'd have waived one and kept 14 forwards.

That's not the case at all. Find me one single time in which McGrattan just attacked a guy for a clean hit. Also, why (in your fantasy scenario) is McGrattan on the ice with Datsyuk in the first place? McGrattan, like most heavy weight enforcers, only fights other heavy weight enforcers. So no, he wouldn't have jumped Scuderi. And even if he had, he'd have just got a suspension for it the way your boy Shawn Thornton did when he mugged Brooks Orpik for a clean hit. Exactly what did that solve? Certainly didn't "keep the Pens honest" as James Neal kneed Marchand in the head half a period later.

And McGrattan (or whatever talentless meathead you like) can be our goal scorer.

Well, I don't think it's inconceivable that the team could have kept around one or two defensive prospects to fill out the points on the PP. At which time you'd only need six forwards. And we've at least six who are much more qualified to do that job than Helm. Sadly, however, we've apparently got exactly two defensemen that Babs feels confident enough to put on the powerplay (and one of them is Dekeyser). Justify it however you want. If you're comfortable with Darren Helm on your powerplay I don't know what to say to you. Speaking of, why is it that Babs would rather have Helm and Nestrasil on the powerplay than Smith? I thought he was supposed to get a shot this year?