kipwinger

Again, I'll gladly concede this entire discussion if you can provide me with even one piece of tangible evidence that PROVES either of these assertions. Saying it doesn't make it so. There is no way to compare Kindl to Schultz because Schultz has not played enough hockey at a competitive enough level, and there's nothing at all that says the kid will inevitably become "great" so long as he's on a pairing with Smith for a few years. Everything you've said so far is pure speculation. Unless you've got some proof I'm not aware of. Pretty please, explain to me how you can FACTUALLY make the assertions "Schultz is better than Kindl" and "Schultz will be great". Pretty please. Also, and answer this honestly: Have you ever even seen this kid play one full hockey game?

Brendan Smith played two years of AHL hockey and competed for his spot in two Red Wings training camps. Schultz didn't. Next.

Yeah, that definitely makes a lot of sense. You're right about the Gaustad and Moen thing, and I really didn't think about that.

I can honestly see the Wings standing pat with 2 defensemen and a top six forward, and addressing any additional issues at the trade deadline. There's no real reason to run out and spend money on a backup goalie or bottom six forward when either of those things could be had with very little effort later on. Then again, I could be totally wrong, but I certainly won't be surprised if Holland only makes a couple of moves. Especially if any of those moves involves picking up high end talent.

Couldn't agree with you more in terms of the disparity in talent. However, do you think the reason why the work ethic is so low in the KHL is predominantly the result of the the fact that the league is so flush with cash? Or is there really no difference in work ethic, and high profile guys like Radulov give that league a bad rep?

Anybody have a legitimate scouting report on Garrison? I've never really seen him play too much and I don't really want to base my opinion off of nothing.

Either way, it's pretty clear that 9 million dollars doesn't buy you much in Russia if that's what he's being offered. Apparently 70 years of Communism really did leave the Russians with no real sense of what money's actually worth.

As it was a Russian website, maybe they were reporting the deal in Rubles? Last I knew the exchange rate was about 30 to 1, so maybe they only offered him the league minimum in American dollars. Also, can someone please tell me where I can find a job that allows me to piss away the owner of the company's money without ever showing even the smallest positive return on the "investment". How does this ******* ape still have a job?

No surprise here. The only real question is whether or not he hops a plane back to Russia, or if some other NHL team with a lot of money decides to take a gamble on him. Shame too, if the guy would pull his head out of his ass he's be a decent hockey player.

I never said not to try and land the kid. I just said that's it's stupid to guarantee him anything before you've seen him play against professional hockey players. Read through all my posts and you'll see over and over, "sign him and give him a shot to make the team in camp". Seriously, I double dare you to quote one single time I said, "don't sign Schultz". Additionally, I'd submit that one of the reasons that the Wings have been so good for so many years is precisely because they don't "take chances" and promote unproven NCAA players over NHL ready players. Not really sure why any of you think that it's a good time to start doing that.

you win, that obviously proves he's a better player than Kindl. Rock solid dude.

It's not so much that I want to be the grammar police, but I can't help but point out the irony of you bumble ******* your way through a supposed insult about my education. However, if you want to get back to the subject at hand and show me how a college kid with 111 NCAA games under his belt has somehow PROVEN that he's better than Kindl who has about the same number of games played in the National Hockey League, I'd be glad to humor you.

"YOUR a dumbass". Nice try. Next.

Kindl just finished playing his first season against NHL caliber players. Was he great? No. Did he play professional hockey? Yes. Schultz has never played professional hockey at ANY level. So at this point you just hope Schultz is better, he hasn't proven a ******* thing. You have to remember that Kindl was a first rounder too, so it's not like there's not a huge possibility that guys with tons of potential can have a hard time adjusting to the NHL game. This kid played 111 games in the second easiest hockey league in North America after the CHL. Tell me how he's proven that he's better than Kindl? Because he played well against a bunch of 19-20 year olds? Great. And don't even get me started on those saying that he's a better option than Quincey, which is absurd. I honestly cannot believe I have to argue that dominating college hockey does not, in any way, mean that you're better than a professional NHL player. The only way to prove that is to go to camp and earn a spot, or as I side, be some kind of once in a lifetime talent. Justin Schultz is not, and has not done, either. Note: Jacub Kindl played 55 games in the hardest hockey league on the planet and scored a goal, had 12 assists, and was a plus 7. Those aren't bad numbers for a rookie seventh defenseman. So how in the world can you say this kid is "better than Kindl in every way"? Honestly, please explain to me how this kid has PROVEN he's better?

lol. The kid has played 111 NCAA hockey games and somehow people think he's earned the right to walk into a spot on one of the premier hockey teams in the National Hockey League? Good try, but this isn't "Mystery Alaska", it takes EXTREMELY rare talent to do that. If he's not elite in the same way that Crosby, Stamkos, Toew was, then he doesn't walk into a spot on the Detroit Red Wings without ever even playing in one of the professional leagues around the world.

Just a minor topic here. I was wondering how you guys (and gals) would rate the different leagues leading to the NHL. In terms of being closest to NHL level competition, how would you order the OHL, AHL, KHL, Swedish Elite League, and NCAA? Obviously I have my own opinions but I was curious to hear your thoughts.

I'm not going to say that he's not a player I'm interested in, but I agree that the guy isn't the be all and end all of defensemen. Additionally, depending on how high his future salary gets bid up, I think there are some better options moving forward. So, I'd certainly never suggest you were on crack for passing on Suter if it doesn't make sense for the team.

Fair enough, throw it in there. The whole reason I asked this question is because I wanted to see what everyone thought the competition levels were like in the major leagues around the world. So that whenever anyone says "So and So is NHL ready because he dominated such and such league," we'd have an idea of whether that's realistic or not.

This seems familiar. Good luck getting through.

Not really sure that the year to "take chances to make advances" is the one where you're losing two of your top four defensemen with nobody really ready to step into those shoes. We're already taking a chance by resting next year's defense on free agents.

Edit: I just looked back over the articles about him and all it says is that Detroit has the inside track on Dekeyser. I thought I read somewhere that he was pretty committed to signing with them and they encouraged him to return to WMU but I can't find that anywhere so I guess I'll have to crawfish a little bit on that one. Still not sold on guaranteeing any rookie a position on the team based on talent alone, very very risky. Especially when our defense is thin as it is right now, and extra especially considering adding Smith and Schultz as the fifth and sixth defensemen, plus Kronwall, White, Ericsson, and whoever else, would pretty much guarantee us the smallest defense corps in the league. No thanks.

I think Hudler will price himself out of Detroit's range, and obviously there's no need for Conklin to come back. But I disagree with you about Quincey, especially with Lidstrom leaving. Without re-signing Quincey we've only got 3 quality d-men signed plus unknown quantities in Kindl and Smith. I REALLY don't want to have to replace 3 defensemen in one year. Plus, after a year's worth of training camp and a steady partner Quincey is only likely to improve. Plus plus, letting him walk basically means flushing a first round pick down the toilet. Admittedly, he didn't play well down the stretch or in the playoffs. But the guy is obviously not hopeless, and provided he returns to his previous form, could be very useful for a team short on defense moving forward.

I agree with you, that's the risk you run. But it's never really been in Holland's nature to grant spots on the team to guys based on talent alone. I'm not really worried though, with Smith, Dekeyser, and Ouellet developing I think we're in pretty good shape in the "Prospects with Potential" department. Edit: Well I guess I should take a step back. Is the kid so skilled that he's in the Toews, Crosby, Stamkos department? I mean, is it completely obvious to anyone whose ever seen him play that he's going to be elite, and practically is already? If he's that good, then sure. If not, we've got a development program for a reason.

I know I've said this in other threads but I like Carle and Allen as additions to this team. Especially if Suter ends up getting hugely overpaid. I liked them both a lot more when I thought Lidstrom was still coming back, but I think think we can field a real good defense with just those two acquisitions (plus resigning Quincey). Ryan Suter is good and all, but we've now got to replace two defensemen. If I can get Carle and Allen for the same (or less) than I'd pay for Suter, I'd take it in a second.

Yeah no doubt, I'm not suggesting that the kid doesn't have skill. I'm just saying there's a pretty significant step up from college hockey to the AHL, let alone from college hockey to the NHL. I see people recommending guaranteeing this kid a spot on the Wings next year (in one case someone suggesting offering him the top pairing in the future) and he's never even played a game in the AHL. I'm just saying let's not get ahead of ourselves. Sign him if you want, but it better be to a two way contract and see what he's got in camp, but make no guarantees about spots on the big club. You never know if you've got the next Brunnstrom on your hands.