kliq

There is no shame in not being as good as Eichel, just as there is no shame in not being as good as Larkin. My point from the beginning is that you have created a narrative that Eichel is worlds better then Larkin right now, but statistically speaking he has not accomplished anything more then Larkin with the exception of 10 assists. At this point, I consider them at the same level. Which one out performs the other moving forward, I dont know, but up to this point I dont think either has out performed the other. Your Mrazek comment is exactly what I am talking about, any time you talk about a youngwing, there is always a negative tone to it. You dont have to think he is going to be a vezina winner, but why the need to try to talk him down? I never mentioned DD.

Frank, do you understand what shooting percentage is? The guy who scores will have a high shooting percentage, unless he is just taking an absurd amount of shots. You always reference "The ol eye ball test", unless you are watching all of these players play 82 games a year, all you are doing is forming strong opinions based on small sample sizes. You can't watch a highlight on sports centre and become an expert on these players. By the way, like I referenced earlier, Larkin and Eichel were 1 goal apart. I don't understand how the streak or Stamkos have anything to do with what I am saying. I am not saying that these players are bad, I am saying that you are a person who seems to get really upset whenever someone hypes up a Wing, yet you do the same thing with your personal favorites as long as they are not Wings. I have heard you talk about Chychrun countless times in the last 6 months, whether its calling him a beast, the next coming etc. However I dont believe I have ever heard you post anything in a positive tone regarding Mrazek or Larkin as when its a Wing your tone drastically changes to a very pessimistic negative one. Going back to my original argument, Larkin has done nothing but produce at the same level as Eichel since they started yet you will not give him credit for that and continue to create a narrative that they are world's apart which is simply untrue. Eichel may very well become a better player, but lets not distort facts from the present.

You realize that you just said that you dont give a rats ass about shooting percentage, but then in bold you say that you will take a guy with a higher shooting percentage lol. Low shots/Scores alot = high shooting percentage.........shoots alot, not a lot of goals = low shooting percentage. My point is not to over hype Larkin, my point is that when it comes to players who are non Wings, you are the king of overhyping (Toews, Eichel, "McJesus", Chychrun etc), But when its a Wing, you go in the opposite direction.

What he said.

I don't think anyone would argue with you in terms of McDavid, the guy is going to be an elite superstar. As far as Eichel goes, I dont see how you can say Larkin "wont ever be an Eichel type player" when he's already performing at Eichel's level. Last year Larkin played 80 games, Eichel 81.......here are their numbers: Goals: 24-23 Eichel Assists: 32-22 Eichel Plus/Minus: (+11) - (-16) Larkin Game Winning Goals: 5-5 Tie Shooting Percentage: 10.4% - 10.1% Larkin Shots: 238-221 Eichel You really can't get any closer then that. I am curious what the advanced metrics say, but there is really no point to post as I know you look down on advanced stats.

I have to say no to that. Mrazek was playing Vezina level hockey up until February last year, Trouba has never even sniffed Norris level hockey. I dont look at Mrazek in the same category as AA or Mantha, he isn't a guy that has "potential", he has played high level hockey for more then a few games here or there, and he has done it in the NHL not the minors. I know some like to put down every prospect and young player we have due to others putting them on a pedestal, but Mrazek and Larkin IMO are the kids we need to build around and unless we are getting a legit superstar back (Toruba is not that), I'm not trading them. I wonder if a package like AA or Mantha, Howard, and Marchenko for Trouba and Pavlec would interest them? There are always people over hyping prospects, that will never change. The key is identifying the true gems and not making stupid moves when you have them. I get what you are saying with Fowler as he would likely be our #2 guy, but when you have played in the NHL for 6 years, its unlikely that you are going to go from a second pairing guy on an elite team to a elite guy on an above average team. He will just be miscast on Detroit and start to show his weaknesses.

You have no way of knowing that the Wings would have drafted Jakob Chychrun with that pick. It is very possible that with his injury history the Wings weren't interested in him at that point in the draft just like the other teams that picked before them.

For the right player I'm sure he would. But I think for the players he wants, AA, Mantha, and Larkin are the guys wanted on the other end.

Extreme's on both ends are a bit ridiculous. Talking as if all the kids are going to be elite superstars is unrealistic, but at the same time being overaly cynical is just as far fetched. That's what happens in these trade scenario's, people either want to trade all the players they dont want, or they throw names out there like Larkin and Mrazek to get a rise out of those saying names that would never happen for guys like Trouba or Fowler. With that being said, if this trade ever gets made I could see something similar to your scenario happening with AA, Smith, and a pick. The only thing that would have to be added is someone with a more significant cap hit to off set what Trouba will end up signing for. Maybe they trade Nyquist and AA and no pick, who knows. Either way I would be shocked if this deal gets done.

If I had to guess, I think the reason why nobody is complaining about it, is because he and his camp have not gone public ala the Drouin situation. Plus, I'm sure there is a bias since this could benefit the Wings lol.

Again. trades do not work that way. You have no idea what Kevin Cheveldayoff would request back in return. You cannot dictate what a team will take in a trade. If Kevin Cheveldayoff is trading Trouba, many teams are going to be in on it. If he wants AA, we say Mantha, then another teams makes an offer stronger then Mantha, then we dont get him. Look at what St. Louis wanted for an impending UFA in KS, they wanted Larkin. You never know what a GM of another team wants.

Does that work cap wise? What would you say if Winnipeg wanted AA and not Mantha?

Agreed, not to mention its apples and oranges. Datsyuk for 40 games at a 6.5mil caphit as out 1C cannot be compared to Vanek as our 2W? at a 2.6 mil caphit playing 82 games. We are literally talking different positions, likely different lines, different caphit, and likely a different amount of games played. Like kickazz said, comparing Nielson to Datsyuk who has a similar caphit is a much better comparison.

This has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that a player not signing right away is often a result of said player wanting more then he is worth. I did not say Franson was better, the same, or worse then Qunicey as it is irrelevant. I would use Franson in my example again if I had to as IMO it is a similar situation. (I admit, this is speculation) I believe Quincey had a price tag that was higher then what teams were willing to pay. I'm sure if Quincey was willing to take a short term deal at a reasonable cap hit, he would have been signed extremely quick. Quincey would be a great 3rd pairing guy on a good team. I never said he was a top 4 guy. This is not how trades work. You cannot tell Anaheim, we are giving you Nyquist for Fowler end of story. They may not want Nyquist, they may want AA, Mantha or Larkin......In that 5 questions thing, Kenny basically said that he feels goose has hit his ceiling, if that's the case I cant see why he would think that Nyquist "is the future of the franchise". You're just creating a narrative because you are frustrated with the realities of today's market.

I just got my season ticket package and am pumped for the home opener!

Give him the best wingers in the world, his body still wouldn't hold up 82 games anymore. Lets not make something that has nothing to do with Holland about him.

This statement exaggerates what is going on right now. A UFA going unsigned does not nessesarily mean he is not good and usually means 1 of 3 things: 1) The player is not good (but this is applicable to players who become UFA's after barely playing (ie. Weiss)) 2) The value that the player thinks he has vs the value he actually has are not on the same page (most common reason) 3) Due to a variety of factors, teams are waiting to sign those last few UFA's once they get closer to training camp due to cap concerns/injury concerns etc. In the case of Qunicey, I would have to guess that coming off a 4 million contract, he is looking for something in a similar range and he's just not getting it. Similar to what happened to Cody Franson last year. Its not because he isnt good enough to be a top 6 D-man on any team in the NHL. Or maybe he has a ton of teams just telling him to wait a little bit once they sort out their cap issues.

Not sure I would say "meh". He had a very good career coaching in the Q, and in the NHL he has already won the Jack Adams. Sure his last 2 seasons were not the best, but lets put this in perspective, he has only coached for 3 years and he took over a team that did not make the playoffs for 3 years.

As it stands right now, I see this (in no particular order): 12 Forwards: Henrik Zetterberg Gustav Nyquist, Andreas Athanasiou Drew Miller Dylan Larkin Frans Nielsen Darren Helm Luke Glendening Justin Abdelkader Thomas Vanek, Tomas Tatar Riley Sheahan 6 D-men: Dan DeKeyser Mike Green Niklas Kronwall Alexei Marchenko Brendan Smith Jonathan Ericsson Healthy Scratches: Ott, XO, and Sproul. If jurco comes back, then I see AA being send down unless there is a trade or another injury.

Zetterberg should be protected, Kronwall....depends on how this year goes. If E gets protected I would be pretty upset.

Ya i but we would have the caphit regardless, I would rather send him down and rather then lose XO or Sproul. Also, there is no way they dont protect Zetterberg unless he is on LTIR. It would be a complete embarrassment to lose our captain and longest tenured Wing in an expansion draft. He is exactly the type of vet an expansion team would want.

In this scenario though, couldn't they just waive Bieksa?

I have no "agenda" lol, I would love to make the trade you suggested. I just believe there is no chance in hell Winnipeg ever makes that trade. Look at it from the other side....would you want to trade DD for a similar return? Quality > Quantity.

Trades are made based on need, but I don't think from Winnipeg's perspective this is the best possible deal out there for Trouba. I'm not sure why you would bring up the Edm/NJ example, that trade just shows you how much is asked for in return for what's believed to be a top future d-man. I would love to make this trade, but its not going to happen as this is NHL'17 the video game.

I dont see how the Winnipeg trades works for Winnipeg. They are trading us a potential top pairing d-man for an upcoming UFA (Smith), a good 4th liner (Sheahan), a d-man that has had trouble cracking our top 6 (XO), and a guy who was a healthy scratch for a large percentage on last year and has struggled to produce at the NHL level (Pulk). Dont take this as me bashing those 4 guys, I am a fan of all of them. But, that doesnt land you a guy like Trouba unless you are adding some high picks. Agreed that the contract would never happen Yes I think KH has what it takes to make a good trade, but more often then not, trades purposed by fans have zero chance of happening. Yes, Fowler is 24 and is still getting better. Smith is 28 and most likely is not getting much better.