kliq

When evaluating a team and trying to identify your biggest holes which for us is the lack of a 1A d-man, you cant have the attitude like you are expressing. You need to try to do your best and see if you can fill that hole. Again, yes I realize Weber is not coming, but what I would like the Wings to do this summer is try to go out and get a 1A d-man. I fully understand it is going to be a hard task, but you can't not try something because its going to be hard. That is the mind set that people and organizations that fail have and I dont believe the Wings are that type of organization. I am not playing "insert the name of your favorite superstar here", what I am saying is that we need to go out and find a 1A d-man, or someone who is close to becoming a 1A d-man. This is why I would like us to make a pitch for Trouba. When your need is finding a 1A d-man, having an attitude of "Well, we aren't going to get one so why bother. Lets go out and get a #5/6 d-man and pay him like he is a top 4 guy." is just going to to put you further behind. As far as Stamkos, I agree that there is a very high chance that he is going to the Leafs or staying in TB, however to say it is 99.99% IMO is short sided. There are a lot of variables is choices like this, and as much as some of us like to believe we know everything, we don't. I have my suspicions about TB as if he was going to sign there, I would think he would have signed by now. As a Detroit fan, this situation seems eerily similar to Scherzer, Suh, and Babcock and there is a good chance it could play out the same way. As for Toronto, just ask Phil Kessel or Dion Phenuef how it feels being the top player on that team. I could very easily see Stamkos not wanting to be under that kind of microscope especially after spending the early part of career in TB which is not even close to the same kind of environment. As to why would Stamkos want to come here? If I had to give reasons, here are 3 off the top of my head. 1) We are a team with a ton of young talent (Mantha, Larkin, AA etc.) , and widely considered by most as to be close to being a very good team. If you can shed some of the extra salary from this team, add that 1A d-man and a player like RH scoring threat like Stamkos, there is not a reason to think this team cant contend if the youngsters can keep getting better. If I am Stamkos, I am looking at what a team will look like after I sign, and a Detroit with Stamkos, a 1A d-man and not really losing anyone of importance looks pretty good. 2) Stamkos is from Markham, Ontario. Playing in Detroit allows him to be about 4 hours away from home by car, 1 hour by plane. He can have family and friends come and watch him play, and going home for the holidays, birthdays etc. all of a sudden becomes very doable. Yes, living in Toronto would make it easier, but if he doesn't play in that market for the reasons I stated above, Detroit would make sense. Before you someone says it, yes you could make this same argument for Ottawa or Buffalo which are also potential landing spots for Stamkos which makes your 99.9% comment even more ridicoulas. 3) The history of the Wings. Looking up in the rafters and seeing names like Howe, Lindsay, Sawchuk, Yzerman, Lidstrom etc. it means something. Regardless of the Wings right now, I do believe this is a franchise that players who respect the game want to play for especially with everything going on right now with the teams on other levels (ie arena). None of us know how Stamkos himself feels. He may love the Wings, he may hate the Wings. There are so many variables at play here, that for us to say anything as if it is definitive fact, is just wrong. Again, I dont think Stamkos is coming here. There are other teams that would be better then us with him on the roster, and just based on math alone the odds are against us. But if you are going to make statements such as "There is 0 reason for him to come to detroit". Hopefully I just explained to you why that is simply not true and just an exaggeration. Lastly, to say we haven't "bottomed out yet" is implying that to get elite, you have to be the worst of the worst first which is simply not true. We literally did this back in the 2000's. We never "bottomed out" after 2002 in order to get to 2008, we rebuilt on the fly which is what we are doing now. I am not saying we are doing it successfully now, only time will tell us that.

I just used Weber as an example, I feel like you are missing my point. I dont think you can say Stamkos is not coming here, chances are against it but its not impossible.

To be fair, if our PP was again #2 in the NHL I think we would be right up there with the Panthers at the top of our division, so its not as if he's wrong. I think our biggest issue is that we are lacking a #1 legit D-man. Put Shea Weber on this team and that improves the defense, the PP, and our ability to hold the lead in the final 2min of a game.

Me saying "You are spinning what others are saying to you to justify your argument." was directly related to your comments that we need to change things up, but people don't want to get rid of anything. What I meant is that I do not believe people are against bringing in a new d-man and getting rid of some forwards, but that they would only do this for the right d-man, not any d-man. To myself at least, Schenn at 5mil/year he is not the right d-man, to you he is. But to say: "Some on here love circular firing squads. Our team needs to improve, yet at the same time we can't live without any of our players...... But hey the early tee times are coming." IMO is constructing a false narrative as I do believe that 99% of the posters on here would be more then happy getting rid of some of our forwards (ie. Tatar or Nyquist or Pulk etc) for what they deem the "right d-man". Again, it's just that very few if any believe Schenn at 5mil is that person.

You are spinning what others are saying to you to justify your argument. Nowhere in my posts did I say that I didn't think this teams needs to improve the defense or that I was unwilling to part with anyone. What I was saying is that signing Schenn at 5 million/year is not a step in the direction of making this team a serious contender, what it does is handi-cap us even more with another contract that we dont need. I think you and I actually agree in theory that this teams needs an upgrade at the position, its what constitutes an upgrade that are opinions differ.

Yes I posted 1 article, but that is pretty much the opinion of of every writer/journalist that I have ever read write about him. The Leafs gave up on him, the Flyers gave up on him, and yes the Kings did take him, but not at anything even close to 5 million. According to nhlbythenumbers his cap hit this season is 1.8 million and is an expiring contract. http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/LAK?year=2016 In another post you said that you trust the opinion of Kings management over a writer but this is a very flawed argument as this apples and oranges. I have not read anywhere from the the Kings front office that they believe he is worth 5 million/year which is what you are trying to claim he is worth. This writer says that he is a competent 3rd pairing guy, which he is. The Kings are paying him like a third pairing guy. Seems pretty similar to me. My argument is not that the guy is useless and not worth a contract, but that his is not worth 5 million/year. If the Wings signed him as a #6 d-man to a 1 year 1.5 million contract, that I would be open to. Long term at 5mil per year is not just bad, but an awful contract for Schenn.

Thanks for posting, interesting. If the guy never comes off LTIR from the year before (think Pronger) does that change things?

I've been on the fence about renewing my season ticket plan this year as the exchange is such a killer. Though, because I want to go to the last regular season game without paying $300/ticket I ended up renewing. I'm excited for the arena, but nervous as with the Joe I can get out and over the border in like 20min (not leaving early) and am not sure if this will be the case with the new arena.

I dont know if its because he now plays for the Kings who are a very good team, but you are overvaluing Schenn big time. Here is an article from broadstreethockey.com, and this following line sums Schenn up: "With only one year left on his current contract and young prospects banging on the NHL door, Luke Schenn was always the most likely trade candidate. The chances of Schenn being in Philadelphia's future plans are slim. But waiving Schenn would be a drastic move, especially for a player who on average has performed at the level of a competent third-pair defenseman over the past three seasons." http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2015/10/3/9446261/could-the-philadelphia-flyers-waive-luke-schenn The guy is decent, but he just another E or Quincey. I would rather just keep Quncey then sign Schenn at 5 million per. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Please elaborate? I was under the impression that if a guy is on LTIR his salary does not count against the cap. If they never take him off, how will his salary have any impact. For easy math, lets say Franzen carries a 3 million dollar cap hit and the cap is 70million. If we go into day 1 with 73 million including Franzen, even if on day 1 we then place him on LTIR, then we get 3 million in relief. Right? I dont see how that impacts us in any way which is what my original point was. Or is there something I am missing here?

He's on LTIR which means he does NOT count against the cap. I think it is pretty safe to say he is never playing another game again. He couldnt last 2 games this year despite not taking any major shots to the head, just the basic wear and tear of a game two times gave him another concussion. Baring a miraculous comeback, he is not an issue what so ever to this team

I would agree DD is a #2 guy right now, and that Kronwall is a very good #3 guy. I think E/Green are fine as #5 and #6 guys. E is not as bad as people make him out to be, but I dont love his cap hit. Either way, love him or hate him, he isn't going anywhere and this is why Schenn is not a good fit. Sure if you get rid of Smith, then E/Green can be your 5 and 6, but I'm not ready to get rid of Smith just yet for Schenn who would be a much higher cap hit. What we need is exactly what krsmith17 said, a legit #1 d-man via trade. I like the idea of going for Trouba. You get him you have: Trouba-DD Kronwall-Smith Green-E Ouellet, Jensen, Sproul I am not listing Marchenko because I have a feeling a trade with Winnipeg would involve Marchenko given that they wouldn't want to take E or Green's contracts, we wouldn't give them DD or Kronwall, so as a replacement for Trouba that leaves Marchenko or Smith. With Marchenko being the cheaper option and Smith being so close to being a UFA, Marchenko appears to be the logical choice.

Overpaying for another average defenseman via free agency is not something I want to do. We have enough #3, #4, #5 d-men. I would also say its debatable that he's better then Quincey.

Have you watched Schenn play? I'll admit, I havent seen him play since he left Toronto, but when he was in TO, he was playing 6min a game and was basically their version of E.

I'm going to be at the game. I'll totally be paying attention for it lol.

If GM's ran their clubs doing what the fans would want, this entire league would be like the Philadelphia Flyers.

Philly Lost

Nice!!!! What a pass by Richards!

Ya, that's the mentality you want your team going into a huge game with.

You're starting to sound like Bill/Miller, if you hate Nyquist so much just make a thread about him and contain it in there. Nyquist/Tatar definitely are not the next euro twins, but they are still very good third line wingers. Its annoying how quickly people will just turn on a player. In all honestly, I doubt Holland signs Qunicey, Helm, Richards or Miller. I could see him maybe signing one, but I would say the chances of all four coming back area pretty slim especially Richards.

Really.....in 2016. Haven't we gotten past Cleary jokes by now.

I completely agree. My point was that if we get rid of him, I want it to be in a way where we dont eat salary. Getting anything picks/prospects would just be a bonus. My issue with retaining any salary is this: Howard has a 5.29 million cap hit, lets say we retain 2 million, then we are left with 3.29 in cap space. If we sign a good backup at 1.5 million a year (a hillier type), that leaves us with a saving 1.8 million. I would rather have Howard then an inferior backup if the difference is only 1.8 million. Now, if we can trade him and not retain anything, I would do it in a heart beat.

I don't see Howard getting moved until after July 1st anyways, so I'm pretty sure getting Stamkos or not will happen first. I say get rid of Howard when the right deal comes along. If we get rid of him but retain a large % of salary, I would rather just keep him. If a deal come along where we get assets and retain nothing, do it. Nothing against Howie, just cap management.

Nothing against the kid, but that thought scares me. I look at Montreal and what has happened with the Price injury and would hate to see what would happen if we traded Howard, then Mrazek went out for the season. If we get rid of Howard, I feel we need a legit backup (ie. Reimer, Hillier etc.).

This is a very valid point. I am on the record of saying that I want the Wings to pursue Stamkos, but the notion of signing him to a giant deal does scare me a bit because he has shown some signs of decline. But, to win in the NHL you have to take some risks, and this is one I am willing to take. We're not talking David Clarkson here (ie. stupid risk).