kliq

Exactly my point. All these kids are good, but some are going to be busts, some are going to be studs,and some are going to be alright. It really is law of averages. This goes back to my original point that the most important part of draft isn't "draft order", it is development of the prospects that you draft.

He is good, very good. Just not as good as some make him out to be. Like I said earlier, I put him at the level of Bergeron and Kopitar.

Just to show you an example of how EA Sports ranks based on popularity along with skill, in the most recent UFC game CM Punk was ranked higher then many good fighters without ever having a single fight. EA Sports ranked him an "85". There was a ton of backlash online by the hardcore MMA fans (which I find funny) and they changed it so he was ranked dead last. Case and point, EA Sports ranks based on skill and popularity. Fans (kids especially) want to play as Toews and they want him at a high level. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/1/11/10752028/mma-news-cm-punk-given-85-100-rating-ea-sports-ufc-2 http://whatculture.com/gaming/cm-punks-ufc-2-rating-downgraded-by-ea-to-dead-last.php

I would think by now the Wings have squashed this. Of course the higher you pick, the better chances of grabbing a stud, but how many guys do the Wings have to develop into stars from low picks for people to realize that having high picks isnt the only way to go. In the NFL, NE does the exact same thing, they trade away first rounders, and draft multiple times in the second round etc. If you draft and develop properly, you dont need high picks. Ill use the 2008 draft as an example of how a high pick does not equal superstar: Pick 1,2, and 4 are studs, but nobody else in the top 14 is one. Then you have Karlsson at 15, Eberle at 22, and Carlson at 27. 3 studs in the top half, 1 right in the middle, and 2 in the bottom half. Not to mention, now its even harder to be guaranteed the top pick with the lottery rule changes. 1 Steven Stamkos © 2 Drew Doughty (D) 3 Zach Bogosian (D) 4 Alex Pietrangelo (D) 5 Luke Schenn (D) 6 Nikita Filatov (LW) 7 Colin Wilson © 8 Mikkel Boedker (LW) 9 Josh Bailey © 10 Cody Hodgson © 11 Kyle Beach (LW) 12 Tyler Myers (D) 13 Colten Teubert (D) 14 Zach Boychuk © 15 Erik Karlsson (D) 16 Joe Colborne (LW) 17 Jake Gardiner (D) 18 Chet Pickard (G) 19 Luca Sbisa (D) 20 Michael Del Zotto (D) 21 Anton Gustafsson © 22 Jordan Eberle (RW) 23 Tyler Cuma (D) Canada 24 Mattias Tedenby (LW) 25 Greg Nemisz (RW) 26 Tyler Ennis (LW) 27 John Carlson (D) 28 Viktor Tikhonov (RW) 29 Daultan Leveille © 30 Thomas McCollum (G)

This game is a perfect example of how he is overrated.

Apparently if his "team" wins, it proves he is a better player then Datsyuk.

They also had different people from his career say some words. They had Yzerman, Holland, D-mac, Draper speak to name a few (prerecorded, not live).

Of course lol, there is no better way to compare individual accomplishments then to look at team success.

If you guys want to compare the two statistically seasons, you obviously cant take total careers because Datsyuk has played so much longer, you can take up to 27 due to what was said above, and you cant take career averages as Datsyuk's averages have gone down with decline and injuries while Toews is still in his prime. If you want to compare stats. the only thing you can do IMO is compare the averages of their top NHL seasons. Take each players best 3 years, find the average numbers and compare. I would do it, but I don't care enough as IMO this is no competition as I have made my opinions of Toews clear. *EDIT* lol, I wrote my response before reading this.

My Bad, with some of the posts in this thread you can see why I could think that lol. By nominated I meant final 3, wrong choice of words.

I could have this wrong, but didnt the coach that ran the PP go to Toronto with Babcock?

Just got home from the game, one of the best I have seen this year! First two periods were so so, but the third and OT were awesome!

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but if you are: When the narrative some fans and media try to create is "best player in the NHL, the face of the league!" and you have not even been nominated for a Hart Trophy, AND you have never even been named to the "NHL first all star team", (he's only been named to a "NHL second all star team" once) I consider that overrated. Again, he is a very good player, I put him at the level of of a Patrice Bergeron which is still a very high level, he's just not as good as some say he is. Not even the best player on his team.

Not saying Toews is a bad player, he is a very good player, he's just not one of the top 3 in the world like some make him out to be. He's not even the best player on his team. Take him away from the Hawks and replace him with Bergeron or Kopitar, I don't see the Hawks being any worse, or winning any less cups. Again, this is not a knock on him, I do respect the guy as a player (though like I said before, he lost some in my book when he had his temper tantrum against us). I use Bergeron as a comparable player because he is also a very good player and a very clutch player, and MO he is a good example of the level Toews is at. The big difference is Bergeron doesn't have "the machine" for lack of a better term behind him like Toews does. The NHL needs stars, I cant even say I blame him. When you can make a guy look larger then life, go for it. I'd rather it be Toews then Kane.

What did the league do? The penalty they received for circumventing the cap?

Agreed. I am referring to cups when I talk about hardware meaning nothing. The Hart trophy obviously means a lot, but I don't think Toews has ever even been in the conversation for that. He's just not at that level. Has he even ever been a first team all star? (not to be confused with starting the all star game).

That's easy to say now as hindsight is 20/20. The market is what the market is, when Howard was signed he was signed for market value. Problem is, you never know who a goalie is going to turn out to be. Great goalies have fallen off the map, and bad goalies have turned it around. If you have a rule that you only sign goalies at the caliber of Lundqvist/Price to long term contracts, you are likely never going to sign a goalie to a long term contract. Having that philosophy will likely lead to instability in net for a long time. Would you sign Mrazek to a long term contract?

Wow! He always had a rep as having a bad attitude. NJ is lucky that he walked away, that cap hit for who knows how long would have been crippling.

I was watching the game yesterday, and I couldnt help but think about what to do with Quincey. The easy answer is let him walk, but I dont think its that simple. Qunicey has a very interesting story, two years ago he was probably the second most hated player on the Wings by the internet fans (Second to Cleary), but since the arrival of DD, he and DD have formed the best pairing we have had since Lidstrom retired. Right now we are playing pretty good hockey, and the guy is on the top pairing, that does say something. With that being said, I'm sure his strong play is also going to up his value. Does some team come around and pay him like a top 4 d-man to a long term deal? Or does he garner little interest on the open market. IMO we have 3 options: 1. Let Him Walk 2. Sign Him and deal with the consequences later 3. Get Rid of a player currently on our roster with a similar cap hit, and get rid of that player to offset the signing of KFQ. Which means get rid of Kronwall or E, and we aren't getting rid of Kronwall. Thoughts?

Ok, I've never heard you say that about Lucic before, fair point. I do believe though that a player like Subban would bring alot to this team. I could only imagine him Quarterbacking our PP. I would definetely trade Mantha and some for him, but that would never happen.

For the record, I am not saying Towes is a bad player, he is obviously a very talented hockey player. I just think he is overrated because he has been lucky enough to play on great teams, with great coaching with players better then himself. As much as I hate Kane, and think Toews is 10 times the guy that Kane is, I believe Kane has been more instrumental to Chicago's success then Towes. I also think that Keith/Seabrook have been more instrumental to Chicago's success then Toews. I lost a lot of respect for Toews when he had his temper tantrum against us and Seabrook had calm him down. BTW, who scored the gm.7 OT goal again.....it was Seabrook. This is why you cant just count hardware when evaluating a talent. If Seabrook doesn't score that goal, they dont win that cup. If Crosby doesn't score his OT goal, Toews doesn't win a gold metal. The guy has had a ton of help.

I have to ask Frank, how does Subban's antics bother you, yet you have said before that you are a fan of a guy like Lucic? What is it about Subban's antics that bother you?

That just solidifies your point. If Towes was the best player in the world, it shouldn't matter who he plays with, he should bring up his linemates.

Completely agree. Take Keith and Kane off that team and Toews becomes nothing special with his accomplishments. I'd love to see Toews on an average or below average team, he would be completely exposed. I cant think of a player who has been blessed with better teammates as him throughout his career.

I was always say to people who question the talent of a great goalie for having a bad game, or losing a game for the team to show me a goalie who is 82-0 with a 0.00 GAA and 100% SP lol.