kliq

Cant say I disagree, your essentially agreeing with my original post.

Honestly, probably Andersson. Which I cant say I really bothers me.

I hate this "accomplishments" argument when it comes to Fedorov, its just not true. To say Fedorov does not have the accomplishments of those who are up there is wrong. Sure if you are comparing him to Yzerman, Lidstrom or Howe. But not if you are comparing him to Lindsey, Delvechiio, or Abel. Please lets just be honest, Fedorov is not up there because of how he acted off time ice. He lacked respect to the organization, and pissed people off with the way he left. If we are talking "accomplishments" here is why this is BS: Fedorov accomplishments: NHL All-Rookie Team - 1991 NHL First All-Star Team - 1994 NHL All-Star Game - 1992, 1994, 1996, 2001, 2002, 2003 Hart Memorial Trophy (MVP) - 1994 Lester B. Pearson Award - 1994 Frank J. Selke Trophy - 1994, 1996 3-time NHL Stanley Cup Champion: 1997, 1998, 2002 Abels accomplishments: 2-time NHL First Team All-Star (1949, 1950) 2-time NHL Second Team All-Star (1942, 1951) 3-time Stanley Cup champion (1943, 1950, 1952) 1-time Hart Memorial Trophy (1949) Delvecchio's 3-time Stanley Cup champion with Detroit (1952, 1954, 1955). Named a Second Team All-Star in 1953 (at centre) and 1959 (at left wing). Played in the All-Star Game 13 times (in 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965 and 1967), a total surpassed by only six players. Lindsey: NHL 1st Team All-star (8 times) NHL 2nd Team All-star (once) NHL All-Star Game (11 times) Art Ross Trophy winner (1950) 4-time Stanley Cup champion (1950, 1952, 1954, 1955) Also, please note that Fedorov did all this while playing aginst the best players in the world, unlike the others here who played against the best players of North America. MUCH easier to win a cup when there are 6 teams in the league. Fedorov was a big fish in a big pond. Abel, Lindsay, and Delvechhio were big fish in a medium size pond. Please don't misinterpret my comments as putting the older guys down, I am not at all. I have a ton of respect for these 3. My point, is that Fedorov is on the same level accomplishments wise, and did it at a time that it was harder.

Agreed

In most cases you could say this is accurate, but not in the case of Fedorov. Had Fedorov had a career ending injury in 2003 and not had the RFA drama, I think he there would be no debate. Based on who/what he was on the ice, he is deserving. People don't want him up there because of the other issues and the fact that he never seemed to truly respect the Wings organization. The real question becomes, what defines a jersey to be retired? Loyalty/respect to an organization? Accomplishments within an organization? True elite talent? Or all of the above? I think most Wings fans feel all of the above. Yzerman and Lidstrom fit in all three categories. Osgood fits in the first two, Fedorov in the last two. This is why I think neither will get in, and why I do think D and Z will get in.

Not sure why people are surprised. Prior to the 2013/14 season, the rumor was that Holland/Cleary had a hand shake agreement for 3 years. (that's what the Flyers offered him). I was under the impression all season he would be coming back for one more season. Cant say I really want him back, but I guess someone has to sit in the press box. If anyone is losing a spot because of him, I'm guessing its Andersson.

We won in 2008 without Fedorov. Why would we still be in a cup drought without him?

I don't think either will be retired, but if one of the two do get retired I think it will be Osgood. He may have not had the natural skill set as some other players, but his accomplishments were impressive. Too bad the Wings didn't win the cup in '09 with Ozzy winning the Conn Smyth. One more cup, and a conn smythe, I believe that would have been enough for HOF & getting his jersey retired. He really was 1 game away.

Completely agree, Stevie will never publicly say he is better then someone.Way to humble. I don't ever remember Stevie having a temper tantrum in a big game after taking 3 penalties in a row needing to have one of his teammates come over and calm him down. You don't think of that being a trait of the "best" leader in hockey.

I have no problem with Montreal giving out a dumb contract. Better for us!

If I were a Montreal fan, its not so much the $ amount per year that would upset me, but rather the term. 5.5 per year for 3 years I could live with. 6 years is a long time.

This is a perfect example of why going the route of UFA is not a good idea. A bunch of average to above average players paid like they are superstars.

Thats the only way people who are not happy with Holland can maintain their argument that Holland put a crappy team together. Saying we are a good team or saying we played great D kills their argument. Saying TB just played bad or seemed uninspired doesn't make them look wrong.

They technically traded Halak for Ryan Miller, then let Miller walk for Brian Elliot. But same point stands I guess.

Yzerman hasn't done anything great as a GM....YET. I believe that Yzerman himself would tell you this. He doesn't come across like a guy with a massive ego who wants people to admire his work before he has actually accomplished his goal. Don't get me wrong, he has done ALOT of good. Up to this point, Yzerman has taken a franchise that was not doing so well and has brought them back to relevancy. As we stand right now, he is 4 wins away from winning TB a Stanley Cup. If he accomplishes this goal, myself and many other Red Wings fans will be happy for him and will respect his accomplishment. I dont think anyone on here is lacking respect for Steve Yzerman, most people don't seem to be bashing him in anyway. The issue is when youself and some others want to give him credit for something before he has actually done it and act like he is the next coming just because he is Steve Yzerman. He very well may end up going down as a great GM, but how about we let him earn it first, and not just hand it to him which is what I guarantee he would want. Lets also not forget, 99% of those arguments are because in every other thread you talk about how Yzerman should be the Wings GM and not Holland. I think most of the comments back are more pro Holland then anti Yzerman.

Yet we took TB to 7 this year, and Chicago to 7 two years ago. That I am proud of

There is parity, you will never see the exact same 16 teams pretty much be in the exact same spots year after year. Of course some teams will always be good and maintain a position, especially if they keep their core in tact during their prime (ie. Chicago), there are always exceptions to the rule as there always ends up being an outlier. Before the cap, you would never have seen this many shifts in top teams: LA won the cup last year, didnt make the playoffs this year Boston was #1 seed last year, didnt make the playoffs this year Pittsburgh was #2 seed last year, #8 seed this year. Colorado #2 seed last year, didnt make the playoffs this year. San Jose #4 seed last year, didnt make the playoffs this year. Back before the cap, you may have seen one shift like this if a major roster change or a ton of injuries happened, but not this many. The telling thing, is these teams didn't see any major changes with maybe the exception of Boston.

We also got a little lucky due to Cloutier not being able to stop a shot from center ice lol.

Good teams make teams gag away a series. Chicago deserves some credit, they are a great team. I hate them, but they are a great team. Go Bolts! Plus as a Wings fan, the Bots winning makes me feel good given the fact we took them to 7.

Wow! Watching those highlights, the game seems so much slower then it does now a days. Amazing how the game evolves. I do miss that time, on paper possibly the best Wings team ever.

Its kind of sad to see the way he is treated by many on this board. Sure the guy is streaky, but some people make him out to be the worst forward to ever play the game. If he didnt have his concussion issues, I would love to have him back in this lineup.

All I can say is.......wow!

What is a post Godtrra?

I would love to have a 100% Franzen back, but unfortunately I don't think that is possible. Too much damage has been done . He needs to think about his quality of life, not hockey.

Given that we don't even have a coach, I would say we DO NOT have a definitive #1. With that being said, considering Blashill coached Mrazek and won a championship with him, I would guess he is the front runner. But I see it being more of a 60/40 split. If we are going to trade Howard, we need to get his value up, and be 100% sure Mrazek can handle a full load.