kliq

You dont think trading Matt Moulson, a first-round pick in 2014 and a second-round pick in 2015.for Vanek, then 5 months later trading Vanek for Sebastian Collberg and a conditional 2nd round selection in 2014 which I dont think they are getting because he signed on Minny a great move lol. Possibly the worst move in any GM has made in years.

Can I ask what his poor track record is? I'm guessing you will say the Legwand trade, which I dont think is fair yet as we dont know what Jarnkrok is going to become. Other then maybe the Quincey trade, I cant think of one that bad. Hasek trade? Stuart trade? Schnieder trade? The Jurco/Ouellette draft pick trade?

People have very short memories, its as if Weiss and Alfie never came here. The fact that Weiss was injured last year some how dismisses the fact he came here in the eyes of some. In the case of Alfie, he left a team he played on for almost 2 decades and turned down a reported offer from the Bruins to come here. But since he is older, again, people dismiss it.

I think he will play at some point, but for fantasy hockey he would be a wasted pick unless its a keeper league.

I dont think many people on here are overrating this team. The general consensus is we are a middle of the road team with a lot of upside moving forward if we stay healthy and the young kids keep progressing. The other opinion is we are awful and being led into the ground by the worst GM in history and nobody wants to play here (not my opinion). I dont see anyone here saying that we are elite, or that we are a cup favourite. That would be overrating them. One point I will give is with prospects, I do believe all fans think their prospects may be a bit better then they truly are. I just hope we are right lol.

You asked what his appeal is. He clearly has one due to his popularity. My response was he speaks for a generation. He says crap, that alot of old school Canadian hockey fans feel. I am not one of them, and I am not saying the guy is some type of living legend, great player, or great coach, I'm just telling you what I think his appeal is.Someone else said it best, he's a personality. He's not some generic guy in a suit, telling you what 4 other broadcasters are telling you. Watch the Don Cherry documentary from CBC, from that you can see why he was/is popular. He was never scarred to give his opinions regardless of how stupid some of them are lol.

He speaks for a certain generation. When I watch leafs games with my father-in-law (he is 55 and a HUGE Leafs fan) when Don Cherry comes on the whole house has to be quiet. Personally I think the guy is very outdated with his way of thinking, but he does make good points every once in a while.

Wouldn't you agree, that if the Wings did have a guy willing to drop the gloves, it would benefit the team more if the guy served a purpose outside of just fighting? I would much rather have a Shanahan, McCarty, Hartnell etc. then a Brian McGratton who is a liability every time he steps on the ice? Secondly, guys who fight day in day out, are putting themselves at huge risk for really no reason. Its one thing if someone cheapshots a teammate, and you stick up for him, because at the end of the day, I can see the argument that you are trying to ultimately do good and protect someone (whether that works or not is a different argument). However, when I see guys dropping the gloves 2 seconds into a game just for the sake of fighting, to me its senseless and putting these guys at a high risk for concussions, and long term health problems, and in the most extreme circumstances possibly death due to depression. I cant imagine the amount of undiagnosed concussions guys that fight every night, sometimes multiple times a night get. In my case (I cant speak for everyone), a lack of respect couldn't be farther from the reason for the points I make.

He was good his first year, I don't know what happened to him. If he was a UFA, I would be completely okay signing him to a 1 year deal with a small cap hit. But, I wouldn't trade for him unless it was for Quincey.

I'm not against playing tough, I would love to have a Shanahan on our team. Having a guy who is a good player, tough and willing to drop the gloves can never hurt. My issue is wasting a roster spot on a guy like McGrattan.

It was Luke. I used to watch him on the Leafs all the time, he was their 6th D-man in his last year and used to play 6min a game. He has been regressing like crazy over the past few years. This would be a horrible trade, he comes with a 3.6 million cap hit for the next 2 years.

Is that including Marc Savard? I think once the season starts, a large portion of that goes against LTIR. I'm not 100% sure how that works. Same things with Philly/Pronger.

Which in the end, doesn't help your star player whatsoever. If we are talking about whether or not a goon results in vengeance, nobody will argue that. If we are asking if having a goon prevents injuries, I personally think very little.

I'm all for a big move, but only if its the right move. There is nothing worse in sports then when a GM makes a move just to make a move. I remember when Philly was looking for a top d man and traded JVR for Luke Schenn. I was baffled by the move at the time from Philly's side of things. Horrible trade for the Flyers. Long story short, I would rather Holland do nothing, then trade one our young studs for a middle of the road d-man or an average big winger. At least with the Cleary and Quincey arguable bad moves, it really doesn't hurt us long term and with Cleary he was keeping his word, which I commend. (He know the crap storm he was getting into making that move and did it anyways). With Quincey, I admit I don't like that move for the price/term given, but doesn't really hurt us to bad. But to get back to my point, when it comes to a trade, your not just acquiring a potential dud, your also losing something of potential huge value. As much as some want to believe it, teams aren't offering guys like Booby Ryan for Andersson, Glendenning and Kindl. I'm also sick of people saying we cant land free agents, do people already forget about Weiss and Alfie? Regardless of the outcomes, they were top UFA's 15months ago, and we got them. Losing out on Boyle (wanted to play with St. Louis), Erhoff (lost out on to an elite team), Nitkansen (Wsh offered more $$ and he had ties), and Sutter (wanted to be closer to his family) does not make us a place nobody wants to go. If we were a place nobody wanted to play, we would be losing players. There is a reason the majority of our guys want to finish their careers here, and will do it taking a pay cut, Holland/the Wings organization treats its players well.

Other teams do deal with injuries, but what we dealt with was just unreal. We didnt just lose 2 or 3 guys, we lost our very best players, and a ton of them with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Franzen, Erickson, Cleary, Helm, Howard, and the monster. (I may be forgetting some) all hitting the injury list. I think any team with our bad luck would have struggled. I don't think Boston would have been too good if they had lost Rask, Lucic, Krejci, Krug, Marchant, Iginla, etc. I will agree with you on taking a wait and see approach with guys who really haven't played in the NHL (Mantha, Sproul etc.). I do think some will break out and hit their potential, but i'm sure a few will fade away and not reach their potential. As far guys like Nyquist and Tatar however, I think they have proven enough to earn our respect as future stars. I remember in the Anaheim/Wings series a few years ago telling my cousin that Nyquist was a star in the making, he just stuck out as being something special. For some reason he just couldn't beat the goalie, I cant remember how many times after making some amazing move his shot would either go wide, hit the post, or be stopped by some ridiculous save. He was no fluke last year (not saying you said he is), I think he is the future of this team.

Here's an interesting story (my apologies if someone already mentioned this, I didnt read the entire thread). I gave my pre-season tickets for the Det/Tor game away to a friend (I have a 10 game package), and apparently in the third period some drunk guy a couple rows behind my friend decided to take it out and pee on his seat! Security rushed in and took him to Joe Louis jail. Crazy!

Of course people mention this frequently, its fact. If a person is going to make a rational and logical arguement, I would expect they use facts in their arguments opposed to emotion. You constantly refer to the Wings as an old team, yet if you look at their lineup its filled with young players. Do you really think there is a better change of Z, D, Kronwall, regressing, then Gus, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Smith, DD getting better? Young players improve, the Smith of 2014 is not necessarily the Smith of 2015, I would hope with 1 more year of experience, and with Babcock leading the way, all these players will get better. Then throw in less injuries, I dont see how you can be so overly pessimistic regarding this team. Yes we probably know what we are going to get with Franzen, Cleary & Quincey, but that's 3 players.

LOL, thats the second time I fell for something like that.

It all seriousness, what does that have to do with this?

See bold below lol. Not to say there are no valid points in there, but there is a giant negative cloud over this team right now by some fans. I'm in no way saying we are something we are not, I believe our ceiling is #3 seed (if absolutely everything clicked) and our floor is #10th seed (if we have another year of injuries, a decline/sophomore slump of our kids, and another bad year from Howard). Realistically, we finish between #6 - #8. For a team rebuilding, I would take this any day. Being a Lions fan, I have seen a team being run into the ground, this is not it...alot of Wings fans view us as being garbage, I hope our kids prove them all wrong.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but this can be said for most teams come playoff time. Its very hard for a team to play well for 4 rounds if they dont have a hot goalie for the majority of it.

I would disagree with this. I believe most Wings fans right now are completely underrating the Wings due to the frustration they have with the style of re-build the Wings are undertaking. Some fans have expectations of immediate results, and the fact that we have not been contenders for a few years just eats away at some. You cant read a single thread on this board (which is filled with die-hards) without reading how how "Holland ruined this team". I think fans underrate them, I think overall the media are somewhere in the middle.

LOL, only here would this even have to be said. I get that this freaking out over a few minor injuries is simply a conditioned response to the past few years. But at the end of the day, we have only had 1 real injury which was to Datsyuk, and it should only keep him out around 4 weeks. Its not like Zetterberg broke his leg, Datsyuk tore his ACL, and Howard suffered a hernia. People are getting worked up over nothing. I also don't think that Colton Orr (or someone like him) is the savior for this team. You have a guy like that, people still will hit our our top guys, someone will just also fight Orr afterwards. Its the NHL, guys who hit are going to hit regardless of who is on the other team. If people were scared to fight guys like Orr, they wouldn't be fighting so much. People have referenced Darren McCarty. Its not like having McCarty stopped Lemieux from smashing Draper face into the boards, all it did was create many fights afterwards. Having Todd Bertuzzi and co. did not stop Steve Moore from throwing an elbow at Marcus Naslund's head, it just led to a fight, and obviously the incident. Philly being one of the toughest teams in the NHL did not stop Scott Stevens from knocking out Lindros over and over again. My point is, guys are going to hit. I dont believe having Orr or someone like him on the Wings would have stopped the hit on Datsyuk, or other normal hits being thrown.

According to the Free Press he's going to be okay. http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2014/09/27/gustav-nyquist-detroit-red-wings/16370525/

Ya, but just like when Shanny, Hull, Yzerman, Draper, Lidstrom etc. were getting old, we had guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Fillpula, and Franzen coming up. Now as the new crop are getting old, we have Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Mantha, Sproul and others coming up. Best case for us, the kids develop before the older crew start to decline. If this can happen, we have one hell of a team! Your cousin could have had a third degree shoulder separation which is much worse. Below I pasted the difference of the 3. As per http://www.sportmedspecialists.com/sms-in-the-news/shoulder-articles First Degree: The most common and the least serious is the first degree. This is merely a bruise to the joint. The athlete will be painful but can play as soon as the pain is diminished enough to allow him to function fully. This will vary from not even missing a shift to a week or so before the pain settles down. The second degree sprain is more serious. It involves partial tearing of the ligaments. Second Degree The second degree sprain is more serious. It involves partial tearing of the ligaments. There is more swelling in the joint and usually bruising will appear a few days later. There is a small bump evident where the clavicle is now sitting a bit higher. A sling can be worn for comfort for a few days. Sport therapy is started immediately to maintain range of motion and regain the strength in the shoulder. Again, pain and function will guide the athlete on when they can return to play. the athlete will usually be out 4-6 weeks Third Degree The third degree separation involves total tearing of the ligament in the joint. The clavicle is totally out of the joint. In the old days(10-15 years ago) we used to operate on these to put the clavicle back in the joint. Now we treat it the same as a second degree separation, except there is a longer recovery. We now know that an athlete or a worker for that matter will get back to activity sooner and with more strength if we do NOT operate. I t is the only joint in the body which we will actually leave out of joint once it is injured. The athlete is usually out for 6-8 weeks. The most important thing is to protect the shoulder when they go back to play. We use a special pad under the shoulder pad to protect the joint and probably use a better shoulder pad. Shoulder pads are a lot better now but can be very cumbersome. You would be amazed to see what some of the NHL players use to protect their shoulders. Some of the pads have been worn since bantam hockey. I am now working on design for a better shoulder pad to protect this Acromioclavicular joint. As with any injury I would rather prevent an injury than treat the injury.