kliq

I know its unlikely but I prefer they took E. Glendening's 1.8 mil contract isn't really cap crushing. Then again, if they take him I am completely fine with it. Please do not confuse this post with me saying I like his contract, or the collection of contracts we have.

I get this is likely a rhetorical question you are asking, but I never said injuries were not an issue, that was my point. When healthy Jimmy is a very good goalie, calling him a dime a dozen when healthy is just ignorant. Calling him injury prone, different story. Source? I remember their were rumors that we could get a first for him, but I dont remember reading that we demanded a first. Who reported that? If true that is interesting.

Its not a total breakdown. What I did was I took the top 20 D-men points wise and broke down where they were drafted. Unlike forwards, the majority were not taken at the top of the draft. Here is it: 1/20 drafted in top 5 2/20 drafted between 6-10 3/20 drafted between 11-15 1/20 drafted between 16-30 13/20 drafted out of the first round/not drafted 1) Erik Karlsson -15th overall 2) Brent Burns – 20th overall 3) Kris Letang – 62nd overall 4) John Klingberg – 131st overall 5) Roman Josi – 38th overall 6) P.K. Subban 43rd overall 7) Oliver Ekman-Larsson – 6th overall 8) Mark Giordano – undrafted 9) Tyson Barrie – 64th overall 10) Ryan Suter – 7th overall 11) Shea Weber – 49th overall 12) Drew Doughty 2nd overall 13) Dustin Byfuglien - 245th overall 14) Brent Seabrook – 14th overall 15) Duncan Keith – 54th overall 16) T.J. Brodie – 114th overall 17) Andrei Markov – 162nd overall 18) Keith Yandle – 105th overall 19) Shayne Gostisbehere – 78th overall 20) Kevin Shattenkirk – 14th overall I'm fine with UFA's if they are superstars (ie. JT), but the chances of that are slim to none so I essentially agree with you.

I disagree with this, I think Jimmy is a very underrated goaltender. His issue is his inability to stay healthy, not lack of skill when healthy.

I dont want to retain 2mil. If we retain 2 mil, then sign a backup for 1-2 mil, all we are really saving is 1.3mil in cap space, whats the point. I would prefer to just trade him for peanuts to get rid of the cap hit all together. Now if the other team wants us to retain cap for future assets, that is a different story.

The issue is more that Defenseman are harder to assess at such a young age then forwards. Highly drafted forwards have a higher success rate the highly drafted D-men. While a large % of top D-men in the league were actually drafted later in the draft. I'm pretty sure Keith, Subban, Letang, Weber etc, were all picked way way way out of the top 10. I posted a breakdown at an earlier time that I can find if anyone wants to see it.

The the obstacle they become is completely situational. If you have a player who has a NTC because he does not want to leave the city he is playing in, I think its a very big obstacle. Even with a 10 team no trade list, you can manipulate that list so there are likely no destinations for you to go. On the flip side, if you have a NTC simply because you want control of where you go, then its likely not an issue at all. If you are a soon to be UFA with a team wanting to trade you to a contender, likely not an issue at all. Left Wingers comment of "they don't matter" is just wrong. (not that you were disputing that)

This is just wrong. Clearly Bishop was willing to waive clause. Those clauses do matter, you keep focusing on all the times players have waived them, what about the times players choose not to. The best example I can think of is when SJ stripped Thornton of the C and tried to trade him but he refused. They are as important as the player makes them.

Absolutely zero desire to trade for Bishop. Props to Kenny for not falling victim to Left Wingers rants lol. First of all as a re-building team I would hate to give up a picks for a goalie who is 30 and could very well be headed for a decline. Secondly, Bishop is likely getting big money this off season, the last thing we need is 15 mil tied up in goalies as it is no guarantee we could move either Mrazek or Howard without eating cap with Howard's injury history and Mrazek's value being at an all time low right now. We have to stop with the mindset of trying to fix things overnight (unless we are talking an impact elite players like Tavares) and we need to continue with the re-build. Signing a 30 year old goalie for big money is a move that is made when you think you can contend next year.

If you go back to the 3 Bold Predictions thread, one of my predictions was that Nashville would win the Cup over Washington. The major reason that I thought/think this is because I view this trade in a similar fashion to the Shanny/Coffey/Primeau trade. I believe it is going to go down as the trade that gave Nashville the piece they needed to finally put them over the top. I don't believe Weber is a bad player, and this is in no way an effort to put him down, but I do believe that Subban is the superior player in 2017. I also believe that making a change like this completely changes the dynamic of a team, and I do not believe that if Weber was there over Subban they would still be doing what they are doing this post season. Hockey is not that simplistic, this is not a video game where if you simply take player A out, and put player B is, nothing changes. In my mind, Nashville is the run away winner, and that is not even taking Weber's ridiculous contract into consideration. Montreal got fleeced here.

So is there anyone out there that still believes Montreal won this trade? @frankgrimes?

So many different directions you went in, I'll stick to just two. To be fair though Frank, changes made in the Leafs scouting really have nothing to do with their turn around. The majority of the players that are turning into stars were their prior to these changes being made with the exception of I believe Matthews. No doubt Babs is a huge reason for the Leafs success, I was not one of the one's who was happy when he left. If we had Babs and Toronto had Blashill. no doubt in my mind they do not make the playoffs and we are a lot closer (possibly slipping in). Why do I rag on Buffalo? Because they have made the playoffs 2 times in the last 10 seasons meaning they have had 8 "top 15" but probably closer to top 5 picks and have nothing to show for it. This is why I use them as an example, if you tank and are bad for a decade, you can still be a bottom feeder in the standings. Tanking is not some pill that just magically makes you a contender, it's alot more complicated that that and to think otherwise is just a simplistic way of looking at things. I am not saying that Buffalo will never be good again, but they are the perfect example of how tanking does not guarantee success. If "tanking" is a 10-15 year process, I want no part in it. We need to make moves, no doubt. But there is a huge difference between making moves and just trading everyone/scorched earth. This is why I constantly bring up the Leafs. Shanny and company got rid of the massive contracts, traded a lot of second tier players/upcoming UFA's, hired a new coach, and have a good mix of vets/kids. This is what I want to do. Doing this they pretty much transformed the team in only a couple seasons. They DID NOT tear it down.

Not to speak for anyone, but I think the point that @Dabura i trying to make is that it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other which is the same thing I keep trying to tell you. I read the initial post and there was nothing about hanging on to the streak (which doesn't even make sense to say anymore), signing vets to long term contracts, or magically hoping for players to get better. That's an extreme argument that you always go to in an effort to make other posters sound stupid. It would be like me saying to you "Well Frank, I dont think we should tank and attempt to be bad for 20 years". Using hyperbole in an argument just makes a person sound like their argument is a weak one. Like I have said, I really like what the Leafs have done. They didn't just blow everything up, they made the right moves that appear to have really helped them turn the corner. I would prefer to be a Toronto then a Buffalo or an Edmonton (pre McDavid).

Ya hopefully they axe this situation.

Lefty, he has 2 years left. Unless his contract is blocking us from re-signing someone, or signing a stud I'd rather just let him play the contract out. If we buy him out that is 4 more years of a cap hit.

If we are sellers at the deadline,unless he goes through a huge regression there is no doubt in my mind that he could go for a 1st round pick, or at worst a 2nd.

Hopefully they change the lottery rules so every team that doesnt make the playoffs has an equal chance at every pick, I think this is the only way to fix the "tanking" mindset. lol is anyone arguing otherwise? I've said many times I like the re-build on the fly approach that Toronto has used in the past few seasons.

I dont want to go near a 30 year old goalie who is going to want north of 6mil per year for a lot of years.

That's not what you said though, your exact words were "It says he wasn't used as a center." which it doesn't. Either way, what a press release from 3 years ago from the Barrie Colts website says really is not important. Hockeysfuture.com also lists him as a LW, in an article in the freep he says he prefers playing center, I'm sure he has gone back and forth. Either way, my hope is that he can settle into being our 3rd line center, or if the coaching staff thinks he is better suited at winger, a top 6 winger. I prefer center because centers are harder to come by.

More then what Crosby got for taking a guys finger off.

Maybe I'm just blind, but where do you see it say that? GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. – The Detroit Red Wings on Tuesday reassigned left wing Andreas Athanasiou and defenseman Mattias Backman to the Grand Rapids Griffins. In addition, the Griffins signed center Mattias Janmark to an amateur tryout. Athanasiou, 19, earned 95 points (49-46—95) and 52 penalty minutes in 66 games with the Ontario Hockey League’s Barrie Colts this season, while posting 12 points (3-9—12) in 11 games with the team during the 2014 OHL Playoffs. The Woodbridge, Ontario, native tallied 59 points (33-26—59) and 43 PIM with the London Knights from 2010-12, before being traded to Barrie for a second-round pick in the 2013 OHL Priority Selection, a third-round pick in the 2014 OHL Priority Selection and a conditional second-round pick in the 2015 OHL Priority Selection. Detroit’s fourth choice (110th overall) in the 2012 NHL Entry Draft, Athanasiou has notched a total of 162 points (78-84—162) and 82 PIM in 132 games since joining the Colts. The 6-foot-2, 200-pound Athanasiou was named the OHL Player of the Week for the week ending Feb. 16 after leading the league with eight points (6-2—8) in four games and owning a plus-four rating. A native of Linkoping, Sweden, Backman collected 21 points (6-15—21), 16 PIM and a plus-25 rating in 54 games with the Swedish Hockey League’s Linkopings Hockey Club during the 2013-14 campaign. Detroit’s fifth choice (146th overall) in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft, Backman potted seven points (0-7—7), six penalty minutes and a plus-four rating in 13 playoff games with Linkopings this season. In 2012, the 6-foot-2, 176-pound defenseman won a gold medal with Sweden at the IIHF World Junior Championship. A native of Danderyd, Sweden, Janmark was Detroit’s third choice (79th overall) in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft. Janmark has played three seasons with the SHL’s AIK from 2011-14, earning 61 points (32-29—61) and 90 penalty minutes in 118 games. The 21-year-old Janmark ranked among AIK leaders with 30 points (1st), 18 goals (1st), 12 assists (T6th) and 56 PIM (1st) during the 2013-14 season. The Griffins will return to Van Andel Arena on Friday to battle the Lake Erie Monsters in their regular season home finale, before closing out the campaign with a rematch against the Monsters at Quicken Loans Arena on Saturday. Both games will begin at 7 p.m. Fans can secure their full-season, select-season or group ticket packages by calling (616) 774-4585 ext. 2. Single-game tickets for all home games are now available for purchase at all Star Tickets locations, including The Zone, online through griffinshockey.com, or by phone through Star Tickets at (800) 585-3737.

It doesn't say anything about him being a bad Center in that article, or about him playing center, Like I said, I didnt watch him play enough in junior to have a strong opinion either way.

Cant agree or disagree with that, I didnt watch him enough in the OHL to assess that, but based on the fact he had success in the OHL, I find that hard to believe. Either way, I'm not saying 1st or 2nd line center, I'm saying he would be a very good 3rd line center.

I see him getting a very similar contract to Nyquist, and I think he gets traded anyways (or Nyquist gets traded). I would truly be surprised if the Wings kept everyone this summer, I really do think that someone or a few are being moved. Dont forget the expansion draft, someone will be moved which will clear up some cap even its if a small amount.

That's the tough thing with D, with guys like Hronek, Saarijarvi and Chowolski we could have three top 4 D-men OR three busts, its so hard to tell this early.