Richdg

Fil.... I think Holland screwed up here. he should have resigned or traded him last summer. Now he is having a down year and a UFA. His value is much lower than a year ago. Could he get a late 1st round pick? maybe. But that is about all. if we can, do it! frees up the cash and adds more young talent to our system, which we badly need.

Yes jimmy was still in charge, but Holland was very much running/learning to run the team. To think that Holland had nothing to do with any of it is silly. Just as today Nill is very much involved. But if you want to split hairs, then so be it. Eriksson was the guy that Chicago wanted. It was discussed at length on every talk radio show in Michigan and Chicago. Everyone thought he was going to be a long time superstar. It was after the trade that his nickname "Bubblebutt" came out. Homer wasn't a star? OMG..... he was the best front of net player ever in the game. 30 goals a year all from within 10 ft. Give me 4 of those guys right now today! Draper and Maltby were both better than any forwards not named Zetterberg and datsyuk that we have on our roster today. Its not fatal. But it is a long term thing that will take time to recover. Heck i had to root for the wings for 12 + years before they won a PO series. Don't get me started on the Tigers............ 84 untill...... is a long time between WS wins....... At least they are in teh fight atm, which is a major improvement.

Yes 10-12: Z, dat, hommer, Nicky, Cheli, hasek, Land, sammy was still good then, Draper, maltby, Bert (late pickup), etc.... By that time Yzerman was done and wasn't a big time loss. Shanny was at the time but was dropping off even with the good goal totals. was out of the NHL 3 years later..... So yes we were still a loaded team. But that also shows the issues we are having. all but 4 of those guys are gone, and the guys that have replaced them are not half as good.Heck that roster today might very well beat our current roster....Even with half of those guys in their 40's.......

Prems for Shanny. That was a big one. But the NHL was also different then than it is now. There was always teams looking to dump salary and we had no problem picking it up. Chelios for Eriksson was also a pretty big trade. But again, the NHL has changed, so Holland is going to have to change as well. Will he? We will see.

Ya, I hope we keep him, develop him, and don't trade him away. He is definatly outside the small european skilled player model that Holland seems to love so much. Could this be Nill or babcock getting more of what they want?

Not sure what you are trying to say here? That I don't give credit? Nothing could be further from the trueth. But in the end it has nothing to do with what nay of us think. It all comes down to on the ice production. The only way to KNOW is to play. I am all for playing young guys so we can fine out if they can play. There is no reason for Nyquist to be in GR. He can play at the AHL level. We all know that. Can he play at the NHL level? None of us know. Play him, then we all know for sure. As for development time, it varies greatly for each player. There are bunch of 19 and 20 years olds that make it into the NHL each year. Many factors come into this, but to say any draft pcik is 3 or 4 or 5 years away is incorrect. Most guys take a few years, that is true. One other thing. In 83 there was no talent on the RW's. Now there is some. We have 2-3 stars and another 5-6 legit everyday players. far cry from 83. That atkes the pressure off of the new draftee's.

rgr. see typos and brain farts happen! lol. In 06 yes there was some worry heading into the season. But we as a team were still 10-12 legit stars deep. Those stars were already on the roster and had proven themselves. That is not the case now.

I don't think we have in future stars at forward. I think Mraz could be one at G in 2 years or so, and there are a couple of legit potential stars in the D corps. In this years draft we should be able to get a star player, baring something tragic. keep in mind Getzlef was a 19th pick or so (last 1/3 of the draft) and we should be around 15th this year. So we do have the chance to load up, and is we draft well, we could get a 1983 type draft. In 83 we got Yzerman in the 1st, lambert-20 goals per year in the second, probert in the 3rd (who also was good for 1 goal every 4th game for many years as well as the baddest a$$ in the game), Klima in the 5th (yes he was a 1st rounder that no one drafted because they didn't know if they could get him out), Kocur in the 5th-another alltime bad a$$ and could score 10-15 goals per year, and just for fun, Grimson late. So out of one draft we got 4 20+ goal scorers and 3 of the all time tough guys. Take the same type of class and add it to our team now, it would completely transform us within 24 months.

Well yes it is. I am not a Holland sucks type of guy. He has donea great job for us for a long long time. But he is the one that resigns all of these old players. Players do tend to get hurt more often and take longer to recover, the older they get. Bert has had a bad back for years. Franzen is banged up every year, sammy same thing. Cola misses half of every season. So yes in some ways this is the team that Holland built.

How do you even run a real practice with these injuries. Man. But we have to win these 2 games. Just to keep pace.

Holland is in a bind, so what his own fault. But, where do you try to improve? The real answer is everywhere. But how does he do that? We are so thin everywhere, that to make one move only weakens us further at another position. Add to it the injuries and we have a major mess. It is a sad state of affairs when the next 2 games are must wins for us, or we may-key word there, may be toast.

BS. No one was saying any such things in 96. We were all saying "with this much talent we should be wining cups". Then Holland and Jimmy D made the move for Shanahan, to add to Yzerman, Federov, Kozlov, Lirionov, McCarty, Lapointe, Draper, Kocur, etc etc etc........ The only 2 guys that currently compare with that group are dat and Z. That is it. Again, AHL points mean nothing. Zero. Zip. Nadda. nice comment. way to add some intelligence to the convo. BTW I don't play video games. Never have. don't even own a game system. I would rather do things in real life than hide in a video game. You should try it sometime.....

Stop times I can understand that feeling. But I grew up in the 1970's and remember the Dead Wings all to well. Watching us play now is like watching a close family member slowly die. That does hurt and upset me, as it should all RW fans.

ya missed the n't in there. not the greatest typist in the world. as for trading drft picks, hell no! This draft is the deepest since 2003, we need to pick up picks, not trade them away. Most of the draft sites are talking this draft is 90-100 players deep that are legit prospects. I would love to see us with 5 picks in the top 90. We have 3, just need 2 more, which we could do by moving a couple of guys, and not suffer for it. as for prospects, I count 10, but that is my opinion vs yours, no biggie. The bigger question is, do we have many stars in there, and how many spots to we need to refill on the varisty club. History shows only 1 out of 5 draft pciks ever play 200+ games in the NHL, which also says we have 2 or 3 guys that will make it in our system, and even with 5 picks in the upcomign draft, we may only add 1 more. But that is the current world of the NHL, you have to have young cheap players to free up cash for stars.

Holland has never done a full rebuild, because he ahs never had to. we do now. When the captain and shanny left, we were still a loaded team. Which he did go out a couple of years later and added Hossa, rafalski etc too. Now wea re not a loaded team and we are tied by the cap. As for new, LOL! I have been a RW fan longer than most on thsi forum have been alive.

you are not really silly enough to judge any player on 7 games are you? Didn't Smith have a great little 8 game streak last year as well? The question with tatar is can he do it over 80 games? i don't think he can or will. Untill he plays a full season or 2, we will not know. I have said on many different threads, PLAY NYQUIST and Tatar so we do know. When it is all said and done, I beleive they will settle in as 40 point per year players. 18-20 goals and 20 or so assists every year. Horrible, no. Stars? No. I agree. It is the type of move we need, but we will not make.

That is a good way to win 30 games per season. Oh wait, the season is 82 games long....... So is it Fleischman? Kopecsky? Who else have we traded away over the last decade and are still playing in the league?

So what former RW's is Holland looking to bring back? That is the MO right?......LOL I hope he starts the slow rebuild of the team, and doesn't take the band aid we just need a key vet here and there approach. We need more than that.

The POS posts are really weird. Hockey is a tough game for tough guys. Sooner or later everyone gets hit with the puck, the stick, and elbow, etc.... it happens at every level. This play was a classic bang bang play where both guys turned around and realized they were going to run into each other. they both tried to put their arms-and yes their sticks up to protect themselves. One did and one didn't. I could care less if he gets fined or punished in any way. I am far more concerned about the fact we had a 4 min. PP and didn't score. Again.

we were very good into the late 60's/early 70's. It wasn't untill the mid/late 70's that things feel completely apart. as for the draft, I want to see lots of big young fast forwards drafted. we have several good youg D prospects already. they just need time. the forward stack is almost empty. On the D we have Kronwall-signed long term, Kindl 25, E 28, lashoff 23, Smith 22, Sproul in the next year or so, the big russian kid-if he comes over and you never know with russians, Oullett, etc.... There is lots of talent there. Other than Kronwall they all have good size and mobility. At forward, we have small speedy guys and checkers. Not a single 30 goal per year guy in the bunch. Even now, our stars are not big time goal scorers. Most are pass first playmaker types. need guys that can drive the net, crash the boards, and put the damn puck in the net.

Hindsight is always 20/20. There is no perfect GM in any sport anywhere. heck even fans can't agree on what type of players they want. Some like small speedy guys, other big power guys, others yet a mixture. Same thing with drafts. IIRC about 63% of first rounders become career NHL guys. That means they play more than 200 games. in the second round it drops to 25%. For the 3rd round on, it is only 12%. 1 out of 6 drafted players ever play more than 200 games in the NHL. Now those that become stars...... well it is a really small number. Has Holland done things that I disagree with? Yup. has he done things I like? Yup. Point is, it is always a mixed bag. We were on top of the league for 20 years. To stay there we traded picks and young players. Now we are paying for it. Would I trade a single SC for 3 1st round picks today? hell no. Now it is time to rebuild. This will take 2-3 years to do it right. No it will not be fun. But it is what it is.

But in the end, you have to give to recieve. We don't have much to give, that is the problem. The number of truely tradable assets on our team/in our organization is very many.

To be fair, we were playing another 1 line team. For that game it worked. well, not really we still lost. But verses a deeper more balanced team we are really screwed by doing this.

I watched the game that we lost. Becasue we had no secondary scoring. That is the problem. If you put all your play makers on the same line, you become one demensional. D, Z amd sometimes Fil make others around them better. Now no one is doing that.

When you put all your scoring threats on one line, it makes it much easier to defend. Not a big fan of this. But then again nothing is really working atm.