Richdg

That is what is so confusing. If we are rebuilding, then move pieces for draft picks and/or young prospects. yet in the other thread with the link to Mlive, Khan quotes Holland saying we were after Jagr, Torres, JayBo, and Pommy. Those are not rebuilding type of moves. those are win now moves.

Yes, in the past he has done fine. In fact great! lately not so much. As for the future, no one I mean no one knows what that holds. at best 1 out of 5 prospects ever amount to anything. To expect all of them to make it will not happen. take the group of Andersson, Sheahan, Nyquist, tatar, and janarock. I will bet you whatever that no more than 1 makes it. That is the history of sports. Go look att he NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB etc..... Over here in GR, the Whitecaps are celebrating their 20th year. This year their 100th former player made the majors. 25 players per year times 20 years is at the minimum 500 players. So the 1 in 5 holds true. But again, this isn't the point. if you beleive that those 5 I mentioned are your future, then PLAY them! Stop playing guys like Cleary, Miller, eaves, etc... They are not the future. they are role players of the past. No, it is very easy. I am fine not making the playoffs. Play the kids full time then and find out what we have, don't have. If we are rebuilding then why sign sammy, cola, and the gang? Ihave been very clear on my thoughts about the RW's. if it is one last hurrah for the cup, great make the moves and try to win. if we are rebuilding, then play the kids and take our lumps. we are half a$$ing both. Not good enough to win the cup, and not bad enough to get the high end young talent in the draft.

What is interesting is, of the teams in the CF and SC, 11 were from the East and 9 from the West. We are switching over and adding 2 more to the east and subtracting 2 from the west. It also shows that the east is as skilled or more than the west, while being bigger and more physical. as of today only 4 WC teams are in the top 10 in hits, and only 3 EC teams are in the bottom 10 in hits.

Holland didn't build our team for 97 and 98. Jimmy D did. Holland did a GREAT job maintaining that success for 10 years. it is the last 4 that we have begun to go downhill-which was to be expected, yet has done liitle to stop it. That is not ok. I am sorry, you don't rebuild by signing Sammy, Cola, resigning bert, etc..... I understand bringing in some fillers 1 year at a time, but 2 or 3 years? no way. Do you all realize that if we resign our 3 UFA's and 2 RFA's: Howard, Brunner, Fillpula, Smith and Kindl, our roster is full and doesnt not include tatar, Nyquist, or Sheahan. How is that rebuilding? Look at the 2013/2014 roster: Forwards: bert, Datsyuk, Abby, Franzen, Z, Sammy, Andersson, Filppula, Brunner, Eaves, Helm, TooToo, and Emmerton. That is 13. Dmen: Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, Lashoff, dekeyser, Q, and Cola. That is 8. G's: Howard and Gus. That is 2. That makes 23 players and no real cap room left. 8 of the 13 forwards are over 30. Young guys like Nyquist, tatar, and Sheahan will start in GR. Again. Granted we have 2 amnesty buyouts-which I am sure will be used on cheap guys in their final years, not guys signed untill they are 40+ years old like Franzen. yes trades could be made, but if the price is to high.... We could sign a UFA or 2, but we don't have cap room. The flip side of course is after next season we have a bunch of UFA's that could/should leave: datsyuk, bert, sammy, Cola, eaves, ericsson and maybe 1 or 2 more. The point of this post and the thought behind the thread is, we have a lot of work to do. We need a GM that is active, not passive. After being at the helm for 15+ years, not sure Holland is willing to do it anymore. Which again brings me back to the question of why? Being the GM of a high profile/successful franchise like the RW's is VERY stressful. Thus the thought, maybe he is going to retire? First, welcome to the Wings! Second, wasn't talking to you. was talking to someone with over 1100 posts on this forum and either is confused or a fool.

What? Who was the GM before Holland? Are you 12? Jimmy D has already been there and done it. he was the one that buildt this team from scratch. I guess you don't remember anything before 1998 or so.........

This is wrong. Well kinda. Are we rebuilding? if so, then why hang onto guys that are going to be gone soon? Example A. White. UFA after this year. Not coming back. No room for him to be honest. Move him for an extra pick. More prospects. Example B, Colavacio-see Example A. Example C Cleary. example D Miller. Example E franzen. Example F Filppula. Example G Sammy. All could have been moved thus freeing up cap room and gathering more picks to rebuild faster. Oh you mean you wanted some players? McBain would have ben nice. 25 year old RH shooting Dman. Would have fit in perfectly with Smith, Kindl, lashoff, and dekeyser. Courturier is another. 20 year old future #1 C, something we don't have. Now I could go on and on about that, and many have. but that wasn't the point of this thread. fact: Holland did nothing. Nothing good nor bad. Nothing to gear up for one last run, and speed up the rebuilding process. The question is why? Does he really believe we will be better by doing nothing? if so, then what do we need him around for? I guess we have all the layers we will ever need. trueth is, no team in any sport is EVER a finished product. You are always changing and trying to improve. We didn't. So again, I ask why? There is only 1 explaination that makes sense. he is done.

One of the things that happen to many organizations over time is, they get very top heavy. Every company that goes into reorganiztion reduces the number in management. Some streamlining could be very much in order. Commitees to make decisions never work. Go look at congress........LOL

Just an out of the box thought. philly is willing to move SC according to all the rumor sites. looking for a proven scorer or a top pair Dmen. if this is true-who really knows, this move might make some sense. We move a 28/29 year old Dman making 3.25 million with 1 year left on his contract. we pick up a 20 year old 6-3/200 pound C that everyone says will be a point per game guy in a couple of years. SC would become the insurence if/when Datsyuk leaves. yes i understand that this move may hurt us this season. but for the next 10-12 it would make us better and give us the future building block we need. Crazy i know......

Yes there is. To get proven players. You wouldn't include Mraz in a move for Ryan? Or Malkin? or hell you get the point. To have 10 Dmen and 4 G's and holes at forward is not a team that is going to win SC's. add to that you never know which prospect is going to turn out. Most don't.

Sheahan who i like is not going to be a top 6 forward. he is Abdelkader version 2.0. Which is fine btw. as for mraz..... i was driving home tonight listening to the Griffins pregame. Where Kazor was talking about Mraz having lost his last 5 games and really struggling. McCollom was starting agian tonight and playing well. Point of this is, before we talk about any player currently in the minors being a future NHL star, maybe they should produce for a few years in the minors first? History is filled with guys with talent that don't make it. It takes far more than that to even become a regular NHL player. To say nothing about becomign a star.

Yes hard to find. That is why you move the earth to get one. For example. malkin > than our entire farm system. Players of that quality just don't stand around on every street corner. They are really rare. Horde them if you can.

Interesting how this thread is going. The first response is about trading "our only true shutdown defender", then the rest talk about how much more we would have to add to the deal. Agian we have no idea what it would take. E and tatar? sure. There are many possible ways to do this. But if it can be, do it. Look at things long term. E is a UFA after next season. he is making 3.25 million per now. How much is it going to take to resign him? i would guess 5 years and 25 million. Is E worth 5 million per season? No. he is a 3/4 not a 1/2. With Kronwall, Smith, Kindl, Dekeyser, Lashoff, Q, Sproul, Oullett, Nicasctro, and de haas still in the system, we have plenty of Dmen ready and on the way. More than enough talent to replace E. Now go look at the forward group. is there a single future #1 C in the group anywhere? No. not even close. In fact some are suggesting we resign Filppula for 4-5 million per as insurance if datsyuk leaves. Courturier on the other hand is a true future #1 C. For the next year+ he would be our #3 behind dat and z. learning the trade with no pressure. In 2 years, if Datsyuk leaves he is our #2. in 3 years our #1. HF had Courturier rated as an 8.5 prospect. They compare 8's to Spezza, marleu, and Richards. 9's are compared to E Staal and thornton. So Courturier is somewhere in that range, all of which are/where point per game players. All that being said, will this ever happen? no. Honestly Holland doesn't have the guts anymore to even try.

Our D and G positions are fine long term. yes youth makes mistakes. That is part of the growing process. I am fine with that. If we can add 2 RHed shots along the way, great. But other than that, no issues with the D long term. Forwards are the issue and have been. We still control the pcuk most of the time in most games. no one is putting it into the net on a regular basis. No one is crashing the boards and pounding the other teams D. No one is setting up in front of the other team G and being a pain in the a$$. Those are the issues, most of us have seen this for a couple of years. More size, toughness, and sniping is needed. We have play makers and checkers. if we can somehow find 2 big scoring forwards, this is a very different team. But size alone solves nothing. Do the guys in question use their size? Franzen and Sammy are perfect examples of bigger guys that don't play that way. We don't need more guys like them. We need guys like Bert when he was 27-32. 25+ goals, 150 PIM, and mobile.

The only way trading a 1st makes sense is if you are getting a quality player under 28 that is signed for several years. in that case, yes i would move it. But as always, it depends on the who we are picking up.

Some thoughts. 1. About time kenny. We have all known this for 3 years now. Better late than never I guess. I like Holland, but he has gotten very conservative late in his career. 2. I saw a rumor that Car might be interested in trading McBain. They would like some more O. McBain would be a very nice pick up if we could. Another young 25, good sized 6-2/200, RH shooting Dman to add to the group of Kindl, Smith, Lashoff, and Dekeyser. 3. Someone mentioned Hanzel. Yes please! a thousand times yes! A 6-6/240 C/LW that is only 26. he would be second on our team in hits right now. yes he would be expensive, good players are. 4. Keep an eye on Buf. heck all 3 of Stafford, Panny, and vancek (spelling). Can we get the whole line? 5. Why is Howard not signed yet? Get it done!

There will be some big names bought out this summer. IIRC the 2 buyouts have to be used this year. This is the last chance for teams to free themselves of the bad contracts on there books. One of the reasons we should dump franzen-we have the chance to. TB will also be a team to watch in this regard.

lets all stop talking about the past, it is over. Discussing further is a waste of time. The only real question is, what do we do between now and Wednesday? I like our D, so all take of picking up more D seems to be misguided. Unless we are picking up a true #1 that is RHed. We need Forwards that can score, plain and simple. But we are not going to get a 40+ goal scorer. Just isn't out there. So we will need to take some risks. Find those guys that have already shown than can score 20+ goals in their past, that are also signed, and under 30 years of age. There are several guys like that available. In another thread I mentioned several. 2 of which Kulimein of Tor and Stafford of Buf come to mind. van wants to move louango, Tor wants him, and vac wants a 2nd line C. Tor doesn't want to move Bozak. This sound like a perfect Filppula move to me. Fil to Van, Louango to Tor, and recent 30 goal scorer Kulimein to us. Now is that so hard? Make that move. Then move Nyquist for Stafford. That gives us 2 former 30 goal scorers, both of which are signed for at least 1 more year, both under 30 (27 each), both are 6-2/215ish. Both are good 2 way players. The only cost is a future 2 way playmaking passing C. Simple and stright forward deals that should help us right now, and for the next couple of years.

One of the things we all have to keep in mind is, brunner, Z, and Datsyuk were all in game shape when the season started. part of the reasons for their hot start. Now that the rest of the leahue is in shape, the league "caught up" to them. This is part and only part of the reason why all 3 are struggling to score lately. Now add in the offensive limits of the others on the team and yes it does make our O weak.

This is a game where we all should just move on as fast as possible. Not a single positive to be found, by anyone!

We have 7 Dmen on the roster. Q is on the IR and Cola is in GR. The roster expands Thursday. We don't HAVE to do anything. That being said, I HOPE we do something like say, FIND SOME FORWARDS that can score!

The roster expands in a couple of days. Cola is on a rehab in GR and Q is on IR. So we have 8 Dmen on the team. Not a big issue. Now if I could move White for a pick I would. in the off season spin Q off for a F or more picks. The idea of this D is just fine with me: Kronwall-E Smith-Kindl lashoff-Dekeyser Huskins (cheap vet to help coach the kids and play once per week or so).

Great signing by the RW's. yes it will take him some time to adjust to the NHL. he needs some practice just to learn everyones moves, habits, and the communications on ice. No rush. That does give us 10 Dmen now, so yes some one or ones will be moved in some form or another. On a different note. My gosh. Some of you are just plain silly. Just because you didn't get the info YOU wanted when YOU wanted it, you go off into bizzareland. In fact, I would like to invite all of you guys to my house to play poker. Bring lots of cash. This was DD'd biggest day of his life to date, and HE had all the right to due it whatever way HE wanted to. This day was all about HIM not any of us. You only get one first pro contract. It is kinda like your first kiss, first "time" first job, first love etc.....

Ok, not real just predicted. Most people are talking 55+ points to make the playoffs this year. As of today the RW are on pace for 50 points or so. We have 11 road games left and 8 home games. We are 9-8 at home which is 53% wpct. mening we win 4.25 games. lets say we get 9 points out of those games. 33-current total plus 9 is 42 points. On the road we are only winning 38.5% of our games. That is 8.47 points out of 22 possible. 42 + 8.47 is 50 or 51 if you are feeling lucky. 51 of course is below the 55 most talk about teams needing to make it. One more little thing, 5 of the teams behind us in points today have 1 or more games in hand.

we have a pretty good group of young, mobile, big dmen. the only problem with the group is, they are all LHed. Yes we have a couple of prospects on D that are RHed but they are all 1+ years away. if we are going to add to the D, it should be for a RHed shooter. This brings to mind a big young RHed shooting Dmen that has become the whipping boy for his team: Erik Johnson. he is only 24/25 is big 6-4/230, RHed, signed for a few more years, and the Avs have some money/cap issues. He was very good with the Blues but has struggled with the Avs. they put far to much pressure on him at to young of an age. The Avs wanted him to be THE MAN on their blueline and he wasn't ready. with us, that wouldn't be the case. he would be 1 of 6 good Dmen and fill a major hole for us at the same time. he is a RHed Kindl. With Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, lashoff, and DD (wink wink), Kindl is redundent. yes he is playing great and has come a long way. But to get one has to give. Kindl is also cheaper cap wise. Kindl + tatar + a 2014 pick may very well be enough to at least make the Avs think about it. No there are 0 rumors about the Avs wanting or thinking about moving EJ. There is a lot written about him "under performing" though. I know never happen. but in the wonderfull game of "what if", it is worth a thought/phone call if I was Holland.

http://hockeytraderumors.com/briere-habs-draft-pick/ pending physical and him waiving NTC