LeftWinger

No more losing? Do you think they just didn't renew the trademark and want to move forward with new philosophies? I certainly hope so...but I do despise the commercialization of center ice. But, that's the corporate world! What's next, advertising on game sweaters?

What I find ironic is you talking about growing the discussion, yet not accepting the fact that I've maintained the same stance this entire time. We have no "facts" only our opinion of what was negotiated and how and why. I've stated my opinion many times, it's not going to change. I didnt once try to tell you that your opinion is wrong or try to prove to you why mine is right. I simply, over and over, stated why i came to my opinion. You dont agree, that's great, I said in one of my many posts that I understand your point, so really there is only one path going forward, drop it and stop making yourself look like a baiting troll.

You seem to be trippin. If I were changing my story over and over, that would be tripping over my own feet. But, I've said the same thing from day 1 to now. That is not tripping. BTW, 8 minutes.

This is all just your opinion. Much like we all have our own. Plus as always, you like to cherry pick words and leave out the ones that don't support your opinion. Even everything you have quoted shows that I have said the same thing since the signing and have not flip flop as you have suggested. IMO, if Z was 100% playing, hands down the cap hit would have been smaller. Period. That is being team friendly. Since its obvious they waited to find out more of Z's mindset before the contract, Larkin got the larger cap hit, which will be essentially a wash of Z's LTIR, thus STILL leaving lots of room for the three kids. Now, if Z somehow miraculously plays, these cap hits are NOT team friendly, and that would be Holland's fault. Exceeding the cap with the assumption Zetterberg is playing, thus not allowing the team to get better and be competitive and win, AND having to waive/trade players, is not team friendly. But if they waited to hear more of what Z's mindset was, then they knew they had a lot more cap available, thus settling on what is pretty much a wash of Z's cap, is team friendly. It all works together and matters on each other. I'm sorry if you cannot understand that. Now, my side of this talk is over.

Yep, you just don't get it. Talk over...

Ok then, so I guess saying it isn't team friendly, especially if Z plays, each time I address this with you is not maintaining my position on it, then okie dokie. What's next, when Z is done, I never maintained that opinion all summer long either?

If he starts getting his facts correct, then maybe he can blow up. He seems to have great intentions and wants to be known for his "wealth of knowledge," but just a little bit more research and fact checking before he actually publishes the video(s) isn't too hard to do. Especially with website's like Hockey-reference.com, hockeydb.com, eliteprospects.com and capfriendly.com just to name a few. I believe some of you guys on here could do a better job than that guy when it comes to making informative and factual videos. Hasek: Joseph: I mean, sheesh, someone has done all the hard work already...as we see, (and I was unaware of) Cujo was actually traded to Calgary 2 days before he signed with Detroit obviously because they want at least something in return for him.

I've maintained the same stance the entire time. I don't see any flip flopping. I just said, maybe since they probably knew at the time of the signing that Z was done, $6.1M was team friendly because he probably could've asked for more. But my original stance was/is, if Z plays, it's not team friendly. $5M to $5.5M WITH Z 100% playing is team friendly. Done. I'm not arguing this. If you don't understand, then that's your issue. 6x5 is 30, 5x6 is 30. If I am making 30 million either way and want the team to have cap room, I take the 5x6. BUT since Z is done, the 6x5 was signed and its a wash. IMO, they signed the deal once they knew Z's fate. They've been posturing since July, reporters, insiders, Wings insiders, that he may be done, isn't training, isn't ready, isn't cleared. It's a setup for his eventually departure from training camp to LTIR. He's had back issues for a few seasons, never have we heard all this talk that he might be done. So, yes, them knowing that Z was Done, thus opening up $6M possible cap, he could've asked for more. So MAYBE with all that available cap, $6.1M IS team friendly, but again, and final time, if Z is 100% playing, going over the cap, thus not allowing Zadina or Rasmussen to be here PLUS having to waive or trade someone is not team friendly. That is just my opinion.

Dan "The Mighty" Quinn? It's the way of the future.

IMO, I feel that Both AA and Mantha got good term and AAV, Vanek should've been about $2.5M, Bernier about $2M, Larkin between $5M and $5.5M and Green should've been around $4.75M. I honestly did not care whether we signed the three UFA's to begin with. But I do understand that Holland wants to be (somewhat) competitive. I just feel that if the AAV's where a bit lower, it would've allowed more flexibility to promote the kids. To me, its not all about total value of the contract, its about the cap hit. I understand the market, I understand where you're coming from CRL, but I just believe if they were 100% sure Z was coming back, the term would've been $30M over 6 years instead of 5 years, giving us room for Rasmussen, Zadina and Hronek. We know from reports that Larkin wanted 6 years and Holland was pushing for 5 AND Larkin wanted a Team Friendly deal so we had room to make the team better, so I feel that there were probably two options on the table, With Z and Without Z. $30.5M either way. Maybe I am crazy, I don't know, but that's how I feel about it. I am nor mad at any of the RFA deals, glad they are all back and still part of this team. I am pro kids and even want Frk to still be here and hope he does not get waived. I hope Z is healthy enough to play, but I am 100% feeling he is not going to. I want this team to have ALL of: Larkin, AA, Mantha, Zadina, Rasmussen, Hronek and Frk on it come October. If Holland was 100% sure Z was coming back, those contracts all would've been a bit lower term in order to fit. I wish we could fit them all in WITH Z. I would hope not, but you are probably right!

$30M is $30M. Whether it be 5 yrs or 6 yrs. Thats all im saying. Cap hit. Same money, different term. Yes, AA and Mantha could've done the same with the extra year. That's my definition of being more team friendly to save cap space. I wouldnt be mentioning it ehen it comesto Larkin as much except for the fact that he himself had said he wants to give the team a friendly deal so they can be better and have flexibility. The only way taking the team over the cap, thus blocking any chance of having better players here, with this contract is team friendly is if they knew it's going to be a wash of Z's contract. For Larkin's worth, future worth to this team as C, he could very well be making over $7M AAV. So $6M is probably team friendly with them knowing Z is not playing. Then that gives them over $6M (with Franzen LTIR) to promote 3 or more kids. And to your question about Vanek. on July 1 i did say I felt both he and Bernier got a bit too much, as well as Green. So really its not just about Larkin's term.

Guy needs to get his facts straight. He says Buffalo traded him to Detroit in 2001 and Detroit wanted him because they had tried and failed with Curtis Joseph. But CuJo was not here until after Hasek retired the first time out of Detroit in June 2002. Plus he said we traded to Buffalo Vlad Kozlov. Who? Dont you mean Slava Kozlov? Sorry hockey guy, if you're going to have a name like hockey guy, know your facts. Until then just stop making videos.

Zetterberg would be I'll advised to risk permanent injury to be on this roster when it's going nowhere. If we were a playoff team or better, then I could see him play, but it's pointless to play when this team is a bottom 5 team. Larkin got the contract because Z is not coming back. If Z were 100% healthy and playing, Larkin's cap hit would have been about $1M lower. Neither Holland or Larkin were going to handcuff this team. If Z were healthy, Larkin would've taken less.

I agree, there are a lot of scenarios and options. Which is why the sky is not falling. I'd love a way to keep Frk and Witko as our extras and have all of Rasmussen, Zadina and Hronek on the team. Ufortunately, that will only be an option at the expense of Zetterberg LTIR or a Trade of some significant salary. ie...Nyquist. BUT I, as all of you do, believe that Nyquist value will be highest at the TDL, so we'll see what happens come October.

If Zetterberg does play, I will be mad that Larkin didn't get a more team friendly contract. IMO, a hurt Zetterberg is not better than having Zadina and Radmussen up here, along with a D kid. That is why am I still 100% convinced Zetterberg will not play, or Larkin WOULD have gotten a slightly smaller cap hit. Him getting nearly exact cap hit as Zetterberg is a huge tell. IMO...

No cap room for Rasmussen without a trade or waiving Frk. If Zetterberg plays, there WILL HAVE to be a trade in order to promote Rasmussen. If no trade, then no kids. Period. Unless you waive BOTH Witko and Frk. Basically if Zetterberg plays, no kids. If Zetterberg LTIR, Three kids at least.

Exactly. This is all IF Zetterberg plays. If Zetterberg goes LTIR, we will actually NEED Glenny's defensive ability. Plus then, of course, there will be plenty of cap space and roster space for all of Rasmussen, Zadina and Hronek.

Here are some lines IF Zetterberg plays and Glenny is traded. If we want Zadina and Rasmussen up, The cap will just not work if Zetterberg plays, UNLESS there is a trade like Nyquist or Glenny. Even after waiving Witko and Frk we are still $25,000 over the cap. If Zetterberg plays (which I have maintained all summer that he won't) there MUST be a trade or we will not see Zadina or Rasmussen up here. Until a LTIR injury of course. Here is your roster WITH Zetterberg playing, no trade and of course no Zadina or Rasmussen...pathetic. (no, not lines, just roster)

Glendening and the conditional 2019 7th (prev. Arizona) to Toronto for their two 2019 4ths. E100. If Dubas trusts Babcock to tell him what he feels is a player that could help solidify their run, he should have no issue taking Bab's advise and acquiring Glenny. Trading Glenny (along with putting Franzen on LTIR) will allow us to remain under the cap EVEN IF Zetterberg plays AND we promote BOTH Zadina and Rasmussen. In order to make this happen, we may have to accept less for him considering our cap woes. Glenny for ONE 4th rounder should get it done, but would love to have both from them. ...no those are not lines. This will require Witko to double duty again as FWD/D for we would still be over the cap if Hronek is recalled. Of course Glenny would have to be traded BEFORE the season for this to work.

I didn't say I'd be pissed if he played. I simply said, is gladly eat a huge helping of crow if he plays, but when he is LTIR, there won't be enough crow to pass around to everyone. I didn't say anything about how I would feel.

I'll betting that Glendening is a Maple Leaf sometime this season. I believe with a new Gm there, Babcock may be able to convince him that Glenny would help that team. I wish that he wanted both Glenny and Helm, that would open up a good amount of space for the new wave and eventually UFA day.

Crow is a dish best served piping hot. I'll have a heaping serving if he plays, but when he is LTIR, I don't think there will be enough available to serve the rest of you guys. Maybe one feather each?

Watch the movie #iceguardians here's a quote from the movie: Take the weapons off the elbows and shoulders and we'll see less problems with concussions. Bring back the Ice Guardian, we have less problems. Get rid of the instigator penalty, we have less problems. We have less blindside hits, we have less elbows and shoulders to the head. When you have to pay the price for being dirty, you stop being dirty. In the 80's and 90's, you didn't get a penalty for running at Yzerman, your penalty was getting your ass beat by Probert or Kocur. If Crosby (as much as I dislike him) had a legit Ice Guardian, like Yzerman and Gretzky, etc... had, he'd have less concussion issues, guaranteed. Because he wouldn't get run at all the time.

But he hasn't even started his off-season training yet. Camp is upon us soon, he is a month or two behind in even off ice training. We are going to have to face the music soon I believe. I'm ready, I'm prepared. Bring on Zadina and Rasmussen.