LeftWinger

Well, there one UFA down:

If we want to be players in the JT sweeps, or luck out and sign him, they will be just a cap dump, with very little return. But I think we'd survive.

We have ZERO need to move Glenny. His cap does not and will not hurt us in the future, he is our best faceoff man, kills a lot of penalties and is relied upon to shutdown top players on some nights. To me, a 3rd, 4th or 5th is not worth trading him. I am not so sure Turgeon is ready to step in and replace Luke as of yet. Besides a 3rd round pick from a top 5 team, which is where Toronto sits ATM, is basically a 4th rounder and the 5th they offered, yep a high 6th! Insult! I feel the ONLY reason we accept anything less than a 2nd is if we were actively trying to get rid of him for cap reasons or personal reason (Mrazek) which we are not, so if Toronto feels they need what Luke brings, and we all know how much Babcock loves him, then they better ante up or he's not for sale. Like mentioned, his cap is not hurting us now, nor will it be hurting us throughout his contract. With the $12.8M plus Franzen LTIR (TTL $16.7M) we'll have plenty of money for ALL our RFA's plus enough to offer Green a lower returning salary (if he wants to.) IF we sign JT and find ourselves behind the Cap 8-Ball, then we will have to shed salary in the form of Nyquist/Tatar/Abby/Helm for example and we will be dealing from a point of weakness with the returns not even getting us a 3rd, at least not without conditions.

I guess his point was if he we are to believe all the hype (I'm not saying its unwarranted) that he is ready to take over all the NHL records for D-men (much like KRS was saying about Hyped up more than Potvin BEFORE the draft) then why on Earth is he not playing 20-30 minutes in every game? re: open ice hitter, if Dahlin IS all the hype, and will be Lidstrom/Karlsson hybrid machine, I really could care less if he open ice hits on my team. I'll find a defense partner to do that stuff for him! If he bulks up too much in order to withstand the open ice hits with 225lb beasts, he may lose some of the skating ability. I still take him #1, as I believe all 31 teams would as well, but Woodsy does bring up an interesting question. And maybe it is just a egotistical coach who didn't want the Gold medal in the hands of 17 year old...shame on him!

He's also at a 58% FO% which is good for top 10 in the league. I am not saying that Luke has more fair market value than Tatar or Nyquist, but when a team calls you and asks for a specific player because they NEED what that player brings, it raises his personal value. Again, in the hypothetical situation that we need to, if we are in a position to where we want to shed cap, then we'd be calling teams asking them to take payers from us, and that in turn, lowers their return value because we need to trade them. In a case like this only would Luke's value possibly garner a better return because he is wanted for his specific skill set rather than us just trying to dump him for whatever we can get...Like Mrazek. Outside of possibly driving the price up for Tatar/Nyquist because teams are calling for them, if we are up against the cap come off season and need to dump, we are in a position of weakness at that time. If a team is feinding after someone we have and don't necessarily want to deal, you better come in with an offer better than a 5th round pick. Hell, look at when we traded for KFQ, Holland felt he really needed this guy on our team for specific reason and he had to pay up to get him. In no ******* reality in this universe is KFQ, a run of the mill left handed average d-man worth a 1st round pick, unless some GM feels that he fills an absolute specific need and/or hole on the team. Honestly to this day, I still cannot figure out what the f*** hole was so deep that we had to give a 1st round pick for KFQ!

I guess I am just wondering why his name hasn't been mentioned by any insiders or teams asking about him. He is a player with a +6 stat on a team that is a -20 goal differential. Plus he's been a heck of a lot better in other aspects of the game than he has been.

Speaking of the salary dump. The only reason we may want to dump salary is if Holland wants to run at JT or JVR for example. We have $12.8M in cap right now for next season. Which could be as high as $16.7M with Franzen's salary 100% on LTIR, even more if the cap goes up some. That should be plenty enough to re-sign ALL our RFA's, including Coreau as backup to Jimmy, maybe sign a mid-tier UFA (like we did with Witko) PLUS bring Green back on a lessor contract. But then we'd have basically the exact same team, maybe worse with the goaltending situation. Holland had said that he feels that he needs to clear some cap space before July 1, so that puts us in the position of need, so again, we may be forced to accept less than market value to attain our goal. But no, you are right, if we remain status quo we have no pressing need to clear cap, if we want to have a similar team as this year with no chance at making the team better via UFA, we can keep our guys and not have to clear cap in order to re-sign out important RFA's.

I agree that we don't NEED to dump salary, unless Holland is setting up for a run at JT (which why wouldn't he) and yes Tatar and Nyquist shoud, on an even market, bring back a higher return than Glenny. BUT As stated, if we are clearing cap for a reason, then it is OUR need to move some higher paid players, which means, we may be forced to accept less than market value in order to move the money. Sure if a team is hot on one of them (like we heard NSH may be) then ya, we should get a higher return. But if we are trading them for OUR benefit (cap space) then we'd have to get what we could get, because the prize in that exchange would be the cap space cleared rather than the asset received. Again though, in the case of disney.com, they called us, we weren't/aren't actively trying to get rid of him, Toronto obviously was very interested in the specific set of skills that Luke brings to the table, PLUS they are inter-divisional, they should have to pay up to our price, IF they are that interested in prying him away from us. If not, we keep him, because he is worth more to this team now and the future than a 5th round pick that may or may not ever see the NHL.

My point is, we don't need to move or are shopping Luke. He is a very important player on our team. He is a RH'd defensive minded center, PK'er, shutdown player that is sought after this time of year. If someone is calling us asking for his availability, then they better have an offer we cannot refuse because we have no pressing need to trade him. A 5th was insulting and a 2nd from a top 6 team is basically a very high 3rd, so IMO, no it's not over-payment from someone who feels they need him for his specific assets he brings.

Last night, Paul Woods made a very interesting point with regards to Dahlin. He said that you cannot believe all the hype you hear about these young players. He mentioned that if this kid is the hands down best defenseman that Sweden has, then why, in a tourney that has zero NHL caliber players, why has he only logged 4:36 of total icetime at the Olympics. He only played 1 game, and he only played 4:36 total. He was not saying he stinks or he may not be all the hype, but his point, and it was a very good one, was, if he is having some issues in the Olympics where there are no NHL players, then he may not be so NHL ready to lead a franchise because the NHL is the highest/fastest/best league in the world and even a kid with all that potential and hype still needs to learn the NHL game and learn how to play at its speed. Again, not saying that he is not all that the hype is touting, but Woods really does have a good point. If he is hands down the best Swedish D-man, then why is there other Swedish D-men playing in every game in the Olympics and he was stuck at 1 game w/only 4:36 icetime?

maybe this puts us to page 2? YEP! Anyhow, I listened to it on my drive down to Detroit, didn't sound real good outside of a few things here and there. Kudos to E for scoring, who is this Ericsson guy and what happened to my Swedish Pylon? I still don't know why his name isn't out there showing interest from playoff teams. I hope his play continues and reaches into next season as well! Maybe if we're a lottery team then (which we probably will be) he can bring us a 2nd round pick at the TDL 2019.

According to Paul Woods on last nights broadcast, on average, if a player is drafted in the 3rd round he only has a 25% chance of making the NHL. Of course the lower the round, the less likely he is to make it. With that being said, unless you are trying to dump salary (Nyquist/Tatar) or the player no longer fits into your plans/not wanted or is replaceable from within (XO/Mrazek) there is no absolutely no reason to accept any draft pick lower than a 2nd unless a prospect is coming back If the player is sought after for the experience and/or intangibles that he brings yet you really don't NEED to trade that player (Green/Glenny/Howard) you hold all the cards. Anything less than a 1st or an NHL ready prospect for Green from a Cup Favorite is an insult and Kenny should just keep him and re-sign him. If All TPA wants to offer is a 2nd, which in reality will more than likely be a #58-#62, basically a high 3rd, then I would hang up the phone. If they throw an NHL ready prospect in with that 2nd, now I'm interested. If indeed Green wants to come back, we do not NEED to trade him for a pick that has an average of 25% or worse chance of making the NHL in 4-5 years. disney.com is a very integral part of our team. He is a defensive minded RH'd center that logs a good amount of icetime, kills penalties and is matched up with teams top players a lot of times. His cap hit isn't too bad considering what you are paying Helm and Abby to be on his line most nights. For Toronto to offer a 5th round pick for a player with Luke's intangibles is insulting. Kudos to Holland for asking for a 2nd round pick. That 5th round draft pick will take at least 4-5 years to even be NHL ready, if he makes it at all. All the while Toronto would get a rare RH'd center with the defensive prowess of Glenny and we get a player that more than likely will never see an NHL ice surface outside of prospect camp. I am not saying Glenny is the hands down Selke winner for his ability, but when it comes to depth down the middle, a player with Luke's assets is a integral piece to that playoff team that needs to fill that position. So if we're listening to offers on him, it damn well better be a 2nd or an NHL ready prospect to come in and replace what he brings. Anything less no thanks! If we trade Tatar and or Nyquist, maybe 2nds and 3rds are fine because we are basically trading them to free up cap space and get a little something in return for them. If we are trading XO, he is basically a 7th D-man making over $1M, how many 7th D-men do we have now that make way less? XO for a late round pick is a no brainer because even if that pick never makes the NHL, we really aren't losing out by trading XO. That is why Holland accepted what Philly offered for Petr. He wasn't going to be in our plans, he wasn't going to be qualified, so he would've left for nothing. Even if the pick remains a 4th and we don't get the 2019 pick, it doesn't matter if that guy makes it really because we weren't going to have Petr here anyhow, so just having a player with a chance to make it is better that nothing. Why not have the same mindset on Green, you may ask? Well because Green is highly sought after by, according to Paul Woods, no less than 4 teams. Sure if he does come back, then getting "something" for him in the form of lower picks than a 1st is a bonus. But there is the chance, if he wins a Cup somewhere, he may want to stay there and try to win more, so if we're trading a player that could be the chip that gets the dip for a team, PLUS he signs there for less and helps them remain favorites, we need to be compensated appropriately. Like stated many times, a 2nd from TPA or NSH, for example, is basically a 3rd, and Green is worth more than that. So IMO Green should garner either a 1st outright, an NHL ready player outright, or if we accept a 2nd it better include at LEAST a mid-to-near ready NHL prospect. If it's less than a 2nd, it damn well better include that NHL ready Prospect. I realize that the TDL is full of surprises and let downs when it comes to what a fan is hoping to see, but honestly, for players who are still important members of this team now and the future, I hope that Holland just hangs up the phone if he receives any type of lowball offer like the one Toronto tried on him. So: Mike Green: 1st RND -or- NHL Ready Prospect -or- 2nd RND Mid-Near Ready NHL Prospect -or- Lower RND pick PLUS NHL Ready Prospect. disney.com: 2nd RND pick -or- NHL Ready Prospect Nyquist/Tatar/Howard: some kind of fair market value return in order to clear cap. XO: Mid to later RND pick * and yes I do realize they are probably not trading Howard now, but I list him because his name has been out there as a possibility, and if the offer is good, take it IMO.

3 goal Jimmy! Any way of giving the loser point back?

It's to the point now that I imagine Green has played his last game as a Wing until at least the TDL is over. I'm sure Holland is protecting him from further injury in case he indeed does get a deal done. Come on Yzerman, get that deal together!

usually I'm upset that Holland doesn't acquire enough players at the deadline, this year I'll be upset that he doesn't get rid of enough players! Ugh! I need another hobby!

If we fail at JT, how much would you throw at JVR?

https://t.co/Qmu3GWVMPL Way too much for the return! 7 pieces? Plus have to pick up Ryan's $7M+ contract with 4 years left? I would've loved to have Bobby Ryan years ago, but he is pretty average now and makes too much. That is a lot of cap to pick up, plus having to re-sign Karlsson after next season. I cannot imagine the 7 pieces it is going to take to acquire him. Let alone the amount of cap space teams will have to try to send back or dump elsewhere in order to afford the two...yikes!

Ya, this is the first time we actually have a highly sought after player, Holland will probably see two 2nds and get all giddy and say yes! Sorry, I'm just setting myself up if anything better happens I can be pleased. My expectations have been very high for a long time, I'd rather be happy than yet another Holland shart.

Yep, we'll all be disappointed. Green for conditional 3rd, and then nobody else traded. That, if at all, is what is a typical Holland firesale, just like we were all disappointed last TDL. If this happens, Holland needs to go quickly!

Speaking of UFA, sure the grand prize is JT, but beyond him there are a few other UFA's that could be a nice look here: Evander Kane - 26yrs JVR - 28yrs and there is a player in NYI with 62 points in 57 games named Josh Bailey (28 yrs) Those three would cost millions less than JT, and they are all having pretty good seasons considering all the hype over JT.

If Green came back, I think $3.5M to $4M for 3 more years would be a very contract. We'll be losing Kronwall in a year, possibly E in two, so it's not like we won't be getting some cap back for him. Of course if we're serious players on JT and then maybe Karlsson in a couple of seasons, maybe $3M to $3.5M would be better. Either way, we have $12.8M right now, if the cap goes up to (rumored) $79M that'll give us $16.8M. If we can get rid of $10M-$12M this TDL and before July 1, which is entirely possible with the names that have been linked to having interested teams, that would give us nearly $30M in cap space. Knowing the like of AA, Mantha, Larkin, Frk, Bertuzi and Coreau with probably take up at least $10M of that, we'll still be good to offer Mike $3.5M and be serious players with JT, along with filling out our roster with promotions and or freshly signed acquired prospects or draft pick (praying for Dahlin.)

If indeed Mike wants to come back in July, maybe it would be in his best interest to open up to about 6-8 teams to where he'd accept a trade so we can have a bit of a bidding war. If we get less than a NHL ready prospect and a 2nd, then its almost pointless. Having just one team that he'll go to not only hurts our bargaining power, but it also hurts his chances at a Cup. IMO, he should be open to a trade to TPA, BOS, PIT, WSH, WPG, VEG, NSH and STL at least. Out of those, heck even throw TOR in there, there would have to be at least a small bidding war. The better the return, the better the team may be when/if he comes back. Remember though, Vanek had said pretty much the same thing about wanting to stay in Detroit and liking it here. A lot of us thought he would be re-signed as well. It could be just being politically correct in saying he would love to stay (or come back) after the season. Anyhow here's what I believe would be a few good returns for Green: 1st Rounder & Prospect 2nd Rounder & NHL Ready Prospect 1st Rounder & 2nd Rounder & Mid-Level Prospect (If we're talking TPA) One of Foote, Raddysh, Volkov, Howden straight up 1 for 1 1st Rounder ...anything less than anything like I mentioned would be a travesty. Maybe, MAYBE if they got creative and gave us a Conditional 2nd (which would become a 1st in they make the Cup finals) AND a 2019 1st rounder. That would be a good return IMO as well. But honestly, if we're not getting a guaranteed 1st round pick this year, it HAS to be an NHL ready Prospect coming. I seriously hope Holland doesn't get fleeced on this...

That would be the fleecing of the century if it were true.

Oh, ok.