Nightfall

It sounded to me he was slamming on our defense and "calling them out". I guess it depends on how you took it. I don't mind that you took it differently, as it could have went either way. I see what you mean, but I am merely saying that some of these people he is calling out have already demonstrated they can and have stepped up in the past.

In order to call out players like that, you have to prove that they haven't been called out before and are being asked to elevate their game today. There was a time when Ian White was elevated to the top line in San Jose. So to call him out to elevate his play is just like San Jose doing it when he was untested. Look at the man's track record. IMHO, if you are going to call out players to elevate their games, call out Smith and Kindl. Two players who have never been called out before and are now in a position where they have to step up. You don't call out Kronwall or Ian White or Ericsson. Those are three players who have proven they can step their games up in the past, and I have no doubt they will be able to do it again. In situations where they had to be that top line defensemen or be that power play specialist, they have shown they can step up to the challenge.

So, in other words, none of these defensemen have shown that they can step up in your mind. Correct? While I do agree with some assessments, like Kindl's, some are just unwarranted. Ian White playing without Lids? Hell, Ian White was playing well without Lids the previous season when he was on the #1 unit with the sharks. Kronwall not grasping the opportunity? Hasn't he given us everything the last couple seasons on the #2 line? What about his effort during the playoffs? I would say that its not unexpected to ask your D core to step up, but to say that none of these defensemen have stepped up before is really a slap in the face to all the hard work they have put in for us in the past. Give them at least a little credit.

For what Ericsson is paid, he is doing well. Weber is one of the top 3 defenseman in the league right now. If you are going to call for an upgrade to Ericsson, who would you replace him with when you consider the same payscale? So if there is someone better that makes what Ericsson makes, lets hear it.

How is this a rumor?

I agree Matt. The point is that we have options open to us. I am very eager to see what the Wings are going to do. I heard that Semin may actually go play in the KHL next season, but thats just on various rumor sites.

Part of "making a name for yourself" is to show what you have in the big show. Nyquist and Brunner don't have a name for themselves in the NHL, but they have an opportunity to do so next season. If they were already playing in the NHL on a regular basis and doing well, they would already have a name for themselves. I suppose logic is hard when it comes from a fairweather fan such as yourself.....

I have to agree with this. The amount of diarrhea like posts coming from people here are really disgusting. The offseason isn't over. We haven't made our last move yet. Give the man some time to make things happen. Dumbest post ever.... Nyquist has no chance to make a name for himself after the way he played last season? Brunner has no chance to make a name for himself after dominating in the swiss league?

I stopped trying to talk reason with this group a long time ago. Remember the "What have you done for me lately" mentality? That is what the LGW forum is all about. Forget the fact that they won 4 cups in the last 15 years. Forget the fact that they routinely spend to the cap. Forget the fact that the management and owners want to win. This is all about everything that could be viewed as a failure at this stage. Holland's fault seems to be the line right now, and that is really sad. Just do yourself a favor and do what I did, just back out of the thread. Your posts make total sense to me, but to the whining entitled Wings fans who have this negative attitude, its not going to work unless you post a big "Fire Holland" at the end of every post you make. This kind of entitled buffoonery is just what I would expect to see right now though. When the Wings do have have a couple down seasons, these entitled buffoons will be rooting for Chicago, LA, or some other team because they can't stand rooting for a losing team more than one or two seasons.

Talk about desperation moves..... They won't take Flip for Ryan straight up. Carle isn't worth a FAT contract.

People said the same thing when Yzerman left, and yet they won a cup a couple years later. To say the Wings are on the decline is about an extreme of an opinion as saying they will win the cup next year.

I am trying to understand why people are blaming Holland. He made offers to both players, and both players decided to go elsewhere. Its called free agency for a reason.

It would probably have to be Flip and Helm or Flip and Nyquist. No one wants Kindl.

LOL! So you expect us to give up table scraps for a perennial 30-40 goal scorer and Anaheim would just accept? Try again.

Detroits offer to Suter was rumored to be 90 million over 12 years. Holy s***!

Tim, I already responded to this when it was posted in General Discussion. Let me give you my take as a Griffins season ticket holder and fan of the team. The Griffins really have not played to their potential. Yes, I think Fraser was a good coach, but there was just something missing from the day to day games. Some games you watch the Griffins and they were unstoppable. Other days, it looked like my rec team could beat them. Blashill getting the job in Grand Rapids was a great move. The Griffins needed a figure quickly. Blashill has had great success coaching at the college level. This really was a no brainer for the Wings and Griffins organization. Some people called it a demotion. I choose to look at it as a lateral move. I hope this coaching change will be what really lights a fire under the Griffins. We haven't seen a playoff team in a few years. It would be nice to see the Griffins actually make the playoffs for a change. With the talent in Grand Rapids, they should be able to achieve that.

I will say that a few people here were correct. If the Pens do get Parise, they will have 3 stud forwards with a D core that only has Letang. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I am just saying that if Parise is choosing between a Cup winning team or not, Minnesota is going to be out.

If I was Parise and wanted to win a Stanley Cup, where would I go? Pittsburgh has Crosby and Malkin. That top line would be a killer. On top of that, I have a cup winning goalie on the back end, and a solid defensive core. Seems like a very easy decision. Pittsburgh is much closer to a stanley cup right now than Detroit is.

I think you need to do your math again.

Hell, Parise, Crosby, Malkin Thats a hell of a line.

Funny, I remember reading posts like this when Dallas Drake was signed by the Wings the year they won the cup.

His 1 goal and 1 assist with 12 minutes of ice time average per game against the Wings was crucial? Are you Gaustad's agent or something? Is that the same line you used in the negotiating session with the Preds? No wonder you got 3.2 million per year.

People here are kissing Lucic and Simmond's asses, saying they drive to the net, fight, and are better. Yet, their stats are the same as is their payroll cap hit. So your answer is, if Franzen drove to the net and fought but scored the same amount of goals, you would be ok with it because he could possible score more if he did? He could also possibly be out with injury more often too. Sorry, but I just don't subscribe to that method of thinking. Do I think that Franzen could use that size more to his advantage? Yes. I believe he could be a better player, but at the same time, I think that many of the people here have unrealistic expectations of "power forwards". I know that if Lucic and Simmonds were playing here, the LGW forum members would be calling for them to score more, even though they drive to the net, fight, and so on. Hell, no player is off limits to the LGW trolls. Even Lidstrom was a whipping boy recently until he retired to some people. There really is no pleasing this crowd.

So if Franzen fought, drove to the net, and scored the same amount of goals, there would be no issue?

Lucic and Franzen both have 4 million dollar cap hits. Lucic is $100,000 more, but I digress..... Lucic: 26 goals and 35 assists in 81 games Franzen: 29 goals and 27 assists in 77 games Interesting how they have the same numbers from production, and get paid the same. Would I rather have Lucic? I have a feeling the drones on this forum would ***** about him as well. As for Simmonds, he is paid $3.5 million for lower numbers, but he has a high upswing if things continue to go his way. Point is that you haven't shown me a "power forward" that is doing better than Franzen for the same cap hit.