gcom007

Is it just me or does Osgood sound a lot better this year than last? Seems more confident and at ease. And I'm glad you still get the local commentary with Game Center.

Even if you would've liked to see Howard stop that, it's absurd to go out of your way to get on his case when the play never should have developed. E blew that, plain and simple.

I just said a few minutes ago when they were talking about how we're outshooting them and they've got nothing, and I said, half-joking, "yeah, but Boston will score on their first shot." s***.

Sounded like it to me.

Same, but who knows? Different team, different circumstances, and it's not like we don't have a history of giving the cold shoulder to some of the guys we sign who we're not happy with. It's not a regular thing, but it also wouldn't be the first time. Not to say it isn't warranted on some level if the player doesn't come close to holding up their side of the deal. It's by far the most curious situation heading out of camp. I think the Kindl/Ouellet stuff will only go on for a very short while before Kindl's either traded or waived, so I'm not too concerned with that drama. Weiss is just plain weird though. Something doesn't add up.

I spent 10-15 minutes waiting for carry out with Steve Yzerman in that little room off the side of Hunter House in Birmingham when I was 12 or 13. Not quite a man-date, but it was an incredible experience. My mom sent me alone from the car to order and wait, and he walked in just a minute or so after I did. Before I saw his face, I was a little scared because he had this black leather trench coat on that just made him look a bit ominous. Then I saw his face and instantly started freaking out inside, but I tried to stay cool. All I could mutter at first anyways was, "Hi, umm, can I just shake your hand???" He was really friendly but I remember even from that young age how shy he seemed, though he was very friendly and incredibly humble and gracious. He was my favorite player and hero from a very young age, so once I got talking I really went off and he was just very cool about it and had no problems talking with me about my hockey team and what position I played and when I told him I always fought to get number 19, he seemed honored. We left at the same time and my mom recognized him and waived and he smiled and waived back. She couldn't believe my good fortune and said, "aren't you glad you went in to get the food now?!?" It was just a really cool, unique and random experience that I won't soon forgot.

So you're okay with the numerous veteran's signed to terrible deals because Holland didn't want to rely on youth? You don't think the makeup of this team could've been far stronger if we had turned to youth earlier, skipped some of the garbage we've signed the last few years and focused in on quality targets that were attainable, even if it meant overpaying? After all, entry-level deals are cheaper than the mid-level deals that lead to cap money being flat-out completely wasted on guys that didn't even end up dressing the vast majority of the time. I would have much rather overpaid for guys when they were still willing to come here and gone with youth then bury the youth and waste mid-level money on washed-up vets. Just because we've made the playoffs (by the skin of our teeth I should add, thanks almost entirely to our youth picking up where our useless vets dropped off) does not mean things played out as well as they should have. We're in a deep hole and struggling to get out of it largely because Holland failed to see and use what he had, skipped over guys he deemed too expensive, and wasted money on guys that were completely ineffective. Nothing about that has worked out very well if you ask me. Yeah, I've had similar experiences. They give you a little ribbing in good fun, but they're hockey fans just like you, and that tends to make up for it. They don't have the elitist attitude that I've experienced with other fan bases which is refreshing.

I don't disagree at all. I'm optimistic about Ouellet and I was not one of the ones going nuts about Kindl. But I'm always cautious with prospects, because the NHL is just a very different game and the lifestyle is also very different. You just never know how guys will respond until they get there. And I think it's insane at this point that we're not getting our AHLers into the NHL sooner. I'm not betting on any of them to be our saviors, but like I said, we don't know one way or the other until they get here and prove themselves to be a keeper, trade bait, or a waiver candidate. In this era of NHL hockey, you need to start figuring that out sooner rather than later. And you stand to benefit far more from those that will work out by getting them on the team a bit earlier. There's nothing wrong with waiting for a player to be "ripe," but it's pure insanity to wait for players to become "overripe" in today's NHL. Ugh. I just moved to Nashville over the summer and am already getting dragged to Preds games. If Kindl lands here, I'm going to take it personally as some sort of cosmic joke. And while I'm a die hard Wings fan, I've got to give some of these Preds fans some credit. Quite a few of them really know the game and are passionate about it and their team, despite the struggles and lack of post-season success. They've got good attitudes. Plenty are fans who go to games because it's something to do and tickets are oftentimes cheap if not free, but it's been a better experience talking hockey with some of them than I really expected.

Something hairy must have gone down with Weiss. Whether he just pissed management and Babcock off last year with the way he handled his injury, or whether his work ethic is lacking, it's too big of a statement for him to be a healthy scratch in the opening game of the season for there not to be some behind-the-scenes ugliness. Maybe he just has a bad attitude. It's pretty damn crazy when you really think about it. You don't throw $4-5 million at a guy to be a healthy scratch at the start of the season. I know it's way too early to be going there, but if this proves to be another Sammy-like bust on the inside, they really need to get him playing on the top line with Dats and Z and make him look as good as possible so they can work with him to get his ass traded. That is just way too much money to be swallowing for a guy you don't want to dress.

I definitely think Babcock is frustrated. Does he get along with Holland? Sure. I think they respect each other. I don't think it's a huge, tremendously ugly situation. But I don't think things are as rosy as Babcock suggests they are at times. I think he's a professional talking to the media and trying not to go too hard on his boss, but clearly, enough has slipped out over the years to suggest that they have a fair amount of disagreements, and it does seem as if more is coming to light lately. That said, it might only be because the media is focusing in on the issue more after so many years of Holland dropping the ball in the off-season. Perhaps their prodding has just grown more intense and focused. That doesn't mean Babcock isn't just as frustrated as many others, and on some level, I'm sure he is. Any way you shake it, there's no way he can be happy about how little his team has improved from free agency or trades the last few years. How frustrated he is at Holland specifically though in reality is something only Babcock truly knows. If he does in fact leave after this year, I think we'll know where he stands. If he stays, then it's likely in the gray area that he occasionally opens up about to the press. Another thing I've been thinking about lately is how many strong hockey minds we have lost over the last few seasons. It's easy to pin our struggles with acquiring players on Holland, but there is a management team in place. You could say that Nill or Yzerman or Bowman were the brains, but in reality, those were all smart hockey people that were in the fold and helping out on a team. Isolate any of them on this team in Holland's role and they might struggle too. But any way you shake it, at this point, the management team has taken a huge blow in losing those guys, and perhaps it proves not so much that Holland was overrated at one point so much as the entire management team was generally underrated. I don't want to go out of the way to defend the guy, because I'd still fire him in a heartbeat if it was up to me just to get some fresh blood in to shake things up, for better or for worse. Holland's had enough chances the last 4-5 years to prove he can run the team effectively and I feel like he's failed and continues to fail in too many areas to warrant continuing on with him. But perhaps it's not as simple as him just losing his touch so much as him losing too many top notch minds and not being able to pull the load on his own, especially after so many years of having a wealth of talented people to help out and names like Yzerman and Bowman in the fold, names that no doubt resonate on an emotional level with players more than Holland might, and that's no small thing. Factor all of this in with Holland having to learn to play within the confines of the cap and it might be fair to say that he was destined to fail. It's a tall order to keep the plates spinning in a transition era when you have to worry about the cap and you don't have as many bright minds to utilize on your management team. I'm not trying to make excuses so much as say, maybe we shouldn't be surprised that he's floundered on his own in a new world.

And for what it's worth, I really don't care if Ouellet starts in GR so Holland can try and get something for Kindl. So long as we're talking a week or two, it's really not that big of a deal. Is it ideal? No. But given the circumstances, I don't think it's worth getting too worked up about so long as it doesn't drag on. If it drags on, then that's a completely different and colossally depressing story, not to mention yet another example of pathetic management from Holland. But I'm willing to wait and see how it shakes down early on. If you can get something for Kindl, it's better than giving him away for nothing. I don't think having Kindl around and Ouellet in GR for a 4-5 games at the start the season is going to make or break anything. All that said, it's still at least a little bit pathetic that this didn't get taken care of sooner. Who didn't see Ouellet beating Kindl for a spot coming, really? My biggest critique of Holland is not dealing with his problems before his back is completely against the wall, crippling his chances of getting a more fair deal.

I remember a rather extensive period of time here when half the people on this forum were as high or higher for Kindl as they seem to now be for Ouellet. But heading to the NHL and having to face that level of competition and pressure while continuing to grow is no easy task. I hope Ouellet works out a lot better, and he very well could and probably should, but I won't be shocked if he doesn't. We've seen days like this before, and we'll see them again. Prospects, no matter how promising, are just prospects until they prove they can really do it at the NHL level. You just can't put all your faith in them unless you're fine getting burnt at least half the time if not more.

Good for him. Weird to like a guy who was once an enemy so much. Once he was on our team and I learned more about him, my opinions on him changed dramatically. Nice to be able to say, and I wish him the best.

Wow. That is kinda shocking. Crymson seemed utterly incapable of muttering anything negative about the team, so that's just weird to read.

But Hasek did prove himself to be an over the hill fruitcake by the end of it, though one who went out in truly classy fashion given the demotion. That was the best year for goalie arguments. I ended so many arguments defending Osgood that year and the next with "get back to me in June" and man, that really worked out well for me down the stretch. But man, Mindfly, man...I forgot about that guy, but as soon as I read the name, it was like a dark cloud crept up over my head.

If he's as good as we hope, I expect Jimmy will be traded in the next 1-2 years. I can't see them keeping both guys around, and if Mrazek is going to win the starters job quick, which he could do, $5 million+ is too much for a backup goalie. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Jimmy needs a strong year right from the get-go after last year, or he could well lose the spot to Mrazek this year. I'm pulling for him, and I think he's fully capable, but I'm at least a tad bit worried based on what I've heard of the pre-season, though I recognize that the pre-season only tells you so much. Absolutely agree. It's definitely time to start bringing prospects up to the NHL a year or two sooner than we typically have in the past.

Might have more to do with how they're practicing and preparing than what they're producing in games or even scrimmages. Maybe he just doesn't see them working hard enough.

While I'm mostly in agreement with all those rolling their eyes, there's a part of me that wouldn't be shocked if this ended up coming true. We're at a point where it's pretty obvious that we have too many holes that can't all be addressed by drafting, and we have a surplus of talent in certain areas. And reasonable or not, I think it's pretty clear that we need some sort of a jolt to the system to try and get this team back on free agent's road maps if we ever hope to be able to even overpay for half-way descent NHL talent any summer soon. A big trade could be that jolt, especially if it works out, but that could be a big if... Again, I wouldn't be shocked if Holland made a move, especially if he's looking to do it sooner rather than waiting for the trade deadline. And you know, it might be for the best, but it'll be ugly around here no doubt, as if we bring in anyone even remotely noteworthy, we're going to be overpaying. Might as well accept that now. But our core is still stronger than it seems and the right guy could really help bring some energy to the squad or help balance out the defensive pairings which would go a long ways, and if we're looking like a stronger team heading into the trade deadline than we have recently, we'll have a much better chance of landing on player's short lists than we've had for awhile, and that too is no small thing, especially if we're aiming to sign what otherwise would be a rental. Our chances would no doubt be better with a rental than it would be trying to land the same player on the open market if we get them in, have a good run, he forms some bonds with players, and perhaps see that the city isn't all so bad. At some point, something's gotta give. Too many years of missing out on guys, too many bad signings, too many holes, too many guys have moved on, and two more big ones will be moving on before too long. Even if we only land a stable 3/4 defenseman with a right handed shot, it's going to make the defense and subsequently this team's chances of winning any given night a lot better overall, and that's a damn good start. The longer Holland goes without making a serious move to improve this team and address some real holes, the weaker he and the team looks from the outside, and that's just not good business. Again, it'll likely be a bit ugly on our end, and that could come back to bite us down the stretch, but he's got to do something at some point to try to improve this team from the outside. It's inevitable, even for Holland.

One area where I think Holland is very strong and where Babcock is weak is in dealing with goaltenders. Maybe it's just because Holland was a goalie and has a better understanding of how they work, or maybe Babcock has too much of a black and white approach to thinking about and dealing with goalies, but there have been a few instances where Holland speaks up and takes action and pushes Babcock in a different direction and it's typically worked out for the better. I was never the biggest fan of Holland bringing Hasek here as I thought he was the type of player that would bring unnecessary drama, which he did on his first comeback stint, but other than that, I think Holland does a pretty good job of signing goalies and influencing goaltending decisions, and I think it's a weak area of Babcock's so I appreciate the balance there.

I generally agree with the idea of what you're saying, and it's certainly more true with higher end talent, and it's pretty fair and reasonable overall, but I still think there's a lot more to making it in the NHL than any sort of AHL or other minor league development would suggest. Too many guys have all the tools and progress at a great pace in the minors, and they often hit the NHL running and have strong starts. But then something snaps and things fall apart, sometimes slowly, and sometimes in a giant flame. Some guys hit the NHL and despite what all the projections say, they just never find a way to keep things moving upward on the arc. If you hit the NHL and don't continue to develop in your first few years, you're going to be on the other end of the arc of your career fast, because nothing will drive a player down harder than playing at the NHL level. There's plenty of reasons for why projections oftentimes don't mean much in reality. Maybe it's the mental side of it and the pressure. Maybe it's quirky injuries taking more of a toll than we realize. Maybe they just always overachieved in a small pond. Hell, maybe it's as simple as the work ethic going down the drain as soon as the big money starts coming in. Even guys on cheap entry level contracts become "rich" generally speaking, at least so far as their immediate future's are concerned. Having plenty of money to blow and the lifestyle that goes along with being a rich professional athlete can be distracting, and it can get the best of some players. No matter what the reason or circumstance, I've learned that the most reasonable route if we're being objective is to not get too high on anyone until they've really proven themselves at the NHL level for at least a couple of years. It's just too hard to anticipate how guys will respond to the NHL game and all that comes along with it on and off the ice even if they have a ton of talent and potential. And don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that I'm not optimistic about a lot of our young guys, but I'm not willing to go so far as saying that I'm sold on their ability to carry this team out of the Datsyuk and Zetterberg era yet, and that's no small matter that we'll be dealing with in the not too distant future. I don't say that to knock any of our prospects at all, but I'm going to typically default to a "wait and see" viewpoint until they get to the NHL level and prove they're going to be able to continue to develop and not succumb to the grind and the pressure, the mental agony when you're slumping, the lifestyle, and now more than ever, especially with this team, the injuries. Also, for the record, given that it's harder to ever to buy talent like we could before the Cap, all that I've said above is why I've become more of a fan of the idea of getting our prospects up to the NHL sooner than we have in the past. I think it's more important than ever to really know what we're working with, and I don't think you truly know about the vast majority of guys until they get to the NHL and prove they have what it takes to not only last, but also to have a solid role with the team that fills a hole that needs plugging. If they can't hack it or if they're redundant, they need to be gone, either to make room or to at least try to package up to trade for guys that can fill the holes we have. I really believe that this team needs to get a lot more agile than they've been in dealing with prospects and acquiring NHL-level talent, even if it's not of the flashy variety. We don't necessarily need the flashiest of teams if we have a well-balanced team.

I'm not worried about Holland not wanting to sign Babcock at all; he's clearly been trying to since early in the summer, that is if we are to believe what he's said to the press numerous times. And for as little faith as I have in Holland these days, I don't think he's even remotely stupid enough to want to let Babcock walk without a fight. That Babcock has been at least marginally resistant to getting a deal done is what concerns me slightly. Combine that with Holland not wanting Blash talking to any NHL teams and it's easy to think that Holland isn't so sure Babcock's dead set on continuing to coach the Red Wings. Then again, that could be nothing more than wanting to keep a good coach as long as you can, which is perfectly understandable, though it does seem in contrast somewhat to how the Wings typically approach those sorts of circumstances with other coaches. In any event, I don't think it would ever amount to a case of the Wings letting Babcock go so much as Babcock deciding to move on if it were to happen. Hopefully it all really is much ado about nothing, which I'm hoping and thinking it likely is. But there's been enough subtle hints that at this point I just wouldn't be entirely shocked if it went either way.

Anyone who thinks some other coach would be able to get more out of the teams Babcock's been given lately is out of their damn minds. Losing him would be a major blow. I hope his words are sincere and not PR speak. All things considered though, at this point, I wouldn't be shocked if he stayed or went. I want to believe he's leaning towards staying, so that's what I believe. But again, the fact that no deal is done yet and that there seems to be a bit of a run around going on over the last few months with the whole idea, and just given that he has been here awhile and might want a new experience, I just wouldn't be shocked to see him go either. I really, really, really, really, really hope he stays though. Can't say it enough.

Just signed up for this for the first time now that I'm living in Nashville. Love those proxy servers... And maybe I was confused, but the last few years, I thought Game Center Live had preseason streams, but when I go to "Todays Games" in the app or on Apple TV, it still just has the last Stanley Cup Finals game from June.

Everything should be fine. Injuries happen, especially in the pre-season, and given that it's the pre-season, far more care is taken in dealing with them so they might appear far more worse than they are. I get that everyone's sensitive after the last couple years, but this isn't worth getting too worked up about at this point. If half the team is injured again by December, then we can all collectively weep and bemoan our fate.

Datsyuk is the very best of the best.