Echolalia

Bowman loved to shuffle lines like nobody's business. The degree to which he shuffled lines I think forced players to play on their toes and be especially aware of their surroundings, as well as force them to be receptive to their teammates, which results in a strong, unified team come playoffs. I suspect Babcock is following Bowman's philosophy, but to a lesser degree than Scotty applied it, and consequently we are seeing diminished effects. But who knows, I'm not a coach. Bowman did a lot of things other coaches wouldn't dare try, even today.

For anyone who has read the latest proposal: Can someone explain this "make Whole" policy?

I think you are asking two unique question here, with different answers. Who was the better Wing? Yzerman Who was the better player? Lidstrom

My heaet is broken if I have nothing but Pistons to watch this year.

This is what I came to post

The guy was a staple of Red Wings hockey. I'll miss hearing his voice echo through the Joe.

The only thing that matters here is money, and like others have said, unfollowing NHL or some player or whoever won't amount to much or help solve the lockout issue. Some folks suggest boycotting the NHL altogether, but that isn't viable either. We all understand just how passionately we love the game, and the moment the Wings take the ice again, everyone will be watching and spending money on memorabilia. Besides, a boycott punishes us as fans moreso than the big guys at the top, whose wallets are already quite stuffed. As fans there is very little we can realistically do that will echo into the upper tiers of NHL management. But we aren't completely hopeless. Despite what they may want us to think, the NHL does not have a monopoly on hockey. There are other leagues around that can provide good entertainment. Instead of sitting the year out as a fan, stay invested in the game, but turn your attention (fully) to the Griffins, or the Whalers or whoever tickles your fancy. Spend the same amount of money on tickets as last year. You'll go to more games and have better seats! Buy a jersey and a hotdog on hotdog night. Go out to a local restaurant or bar before the game. Help the local economy. If we're very very lucky and enough dollars are put into other leagues, it may remind the NHL and/or players how much their losing, and may entice them to reach an agreement sooner (although admittedly not likely). At the very least, us as fans still get to enjoy quality hockey, and check out some top prospects while we're at it, and maybe some of us will start a lifelong fandom into a totally new league. There's also the plus of helping out the local economy and financially backing some of these smaller teams. You would be spending all that money on the NHL anyway, so why not? I know I'm already planning to take the 2.5 hour drive to Grand Rapids to catch the Griffins play a few games this year. If FSN gets enough votes the Griffins games will be televised, too (there's another thread floating around where you can cast your vote). I'll be staying at a hotel and eating at the local hot spots when I visit, and I'll be spending about as much as I would spend in Detroit if a lockout wasn't occurring.

So I assume then, that Brunner playing only a few games overseas until the Griffins' season begins, then playing here for the year is no longer happening? I'm thrilled that the guy can tear it up over there, but that has no bearing on his ability to be a difference-maker in the NHL. I would much rather he spend the year acclimatized to NA hockey.

Is that first in the league? Is that first in the league?

Replays if possible, please!

Oh my god yes. I have already fully committed my fandom to the Griffins in replace of the Red Wings during the lockout. It would be wonderful if FSN provided a legal means for me to watch the games.

I can go to bat for Axe on this matter if he will allow, because at least with this topic I share a similar view. In the late 80s and into the 90s there was a stigma against European hockey players in the NHL. For the most part, teams stuck to USA and Canada for all their prospect needs. After all, we're tough and hard-nosed and nobody wants to cheer for a commie anyway, so why invest resources and time into scouting an "inferior product"? The Red Wings organization went against the grain in actively looking overseas for talent, and pursuing it to the degree that they did (there are some good stories about shady activities to sneak players over here from the collapsing Soviet Union). All of a sudden there are these five Russian guys skating circles around everyone while wearing the Winged Wheel, and this young prodigy from Sweden patrolling the blue line, and other teams start to take interest, and think "hey, maybe we should invest more in looking overseas for hockey talent too". After the SU fell, more players/teams were more easily able to scout/recruit players for the NHL. But throughout the 90s and into the new century, the Wings' European scouting was number 1. We already had a decade+ of serious scouting experience while other teams were just getting their feet wet, or still focusing most of their efforts into North American scouting, and this was a fact that the Wings' brass took full advantage of. They had a pretty good idea what the potential was with players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, etc, but because no other team knew much about these players, Holland and co were able to draft them late and commit higher draft slots to more widely known prospects. Fast forward another ten years and most teams have developed a solid scouting foundation overseas, and high skill players of Datsyuk and Zetterberg's caliber aren't going to stay hidden anymore. The Wings have done a good job even in the past decade with Ericsson and Franzen, but the likelihood of scoring a keeper late in the draft are getting smaller and smaller. When you combine this trend with the parity that is injected into the league, it becomes all the more important to hold onto top picks, which aside from trading for Quincey to patch up a gaping hole on defense, Holland an co have been actively practicing.

I prefer white for the reasons mentioned above, as well as the symbolism involved with light/dark colors. White/light is associated with good, and dark is associate with evil. Ever since the color swap, it felt like the Wings were antagonists in their own building.

There are a handful of folks, including members of this board, who believe that both sides are being selfish and need to apply the actual definition of compromise to their "compromises". On the second point I do agree with you. The owners vs players debate has a lot of political philosophy behind it, and those who identify as strictly republican or democrat may be influenced by their political beliefs when determining what side to support. In that sense it will be a tough sell to get someone to "see the other side".

The effects that a lockout could have on Detroit's local economy: http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2012/09/economist_no_red_wings_games_p.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+detroit-redwings+%28Detroit+Red+Wings+-+MLive.com%29 After hitting rock-bottom throughout the most recent recession and auto crisis, it would really be a shame to watch the local businesses that are helping to rebuild and revitalize Detroit suffer. I wonder how other cities will fare.

A new league would still run into the same issues as this one, I think. Ultimately, the only people who can afford to own teams are of the super rich variety, and it takes a certain mindset to get that far financially. I don't think it is realistic to have owners who participate in a professional hockey league mostly for the good of the community or for fun, and not primarily from a business standpoint. Consequently, I expect the owners of the new league to lock out the players in much the same way that Illitch and the current 29 owners have, based on differences in perceived potential earnings.

I'm loyal to the city of Detroit, so I would definitely watch the new Red Wings, but I would also follow Zetterberg, Datysuk, Helm etc, or at least the players that I really like.

Once a fowl always a fowl

I always thought Abby was more of a Maltby type player than a Draper, minus the agitation factor, but I think he's carving his own role out as a shut-down specialist; at least that's how Babcock seems to be grooming him.

He'll push the bottom four to play harder, and gives us good depth for the inevitable injury.

This kid is slowly turning into the LGW whipping boy, but I think he's the most underrated player on the team, especially his defensive play. I'm happy to see him stick around.

The owners are not allowed to publicly speak on the matter, but I'm with you on Illitch's vote. The owners of all 30 teams are looking at gaining millions of dollars in revenue by saying "lockout" instead of "start the season". As much as we like to think some of these guys are altruistic city and fan lovers (and maybe some of them are), but they're businessmen first and foremost and the bottom line is always the most important thing in business.

Brunner has committed to the AHL in the event of a lockout, to acclimatize to North American hockey, so there you go

I like this year's lineup better than last year's.