Support The Wings

[blind 0]

you know what, why not, all our excess revenue now goes to subsidize small market teams so they can afford bigger players...even though their tickets are way cheaper, and they dont earn all the money themselves.....in other words communism.

if theyre going to force it down our throats, we should be able to keep all our players and have the same budget even if we dont make as much money off the lowered tickets. if other teams can dip in the jar, then so can we.

lets see what shary bettman does once his beedy eyes realizes that the big market teams like Det, NYR, Col, Mon, Tor etc are selling tickets for much less, and revenues from our excess are no longer funding the small market teams. Maybe that will dissolve the communistic cap agreement.

He should go into fast good next. Wonder if he can get McDonald's to pay all their extra profit to ensure that smaller restaurants can make the same profit. Maybe McDonald's should bail out Burger King if they start going down. What a joke. If you have a loyal fanbase like US WINGS FANS, and we're willing to buy the tickets and merchandise and it gives us the power to pay for good players, then WE DESERVE IT. I don't think we should be indirectly funding the enemy or the small markets. They should earn a fanbase and support it for years like we have.

PS you guys know that the Windsor Essex Country school board automatically puts money into funding the Toronto Maple Leafs as a stock investment for their teachers? What a joke, most of them cant stand the leafs, would rather fund the wings, or at least have a choice of a canadian team we could stand. more examples of communism. So they dont even earn the right to have all that money in TO. They don't even tell the teachers that its going on either.

I also love not having the option in Windsor to have the red wings symbol on my plate, even though they offer the leafs II asked for a blank spot to be left on the left of my plate and letters....and I'd make my own sticker, but they told me they'd ticket me and revoke my plate! TRUST ME IM DIE HARD WINGS ALL THE WAY!

OK RANT! lol

I would love to pay whatever price for a ticket if it means we win. Hockey on a professional level is a business, and in a free market society we should be allowed to support the teams and things we like in life, and they should be allowed to profit and have the budget to keep making their goods better, IE wings have a budget to not only keep all their stars, but get more, because they reinvest and we love them for it!

Sorry bitter at this new NHL.

LOVE THE WINGS AS MUCH AS EVER!

tomorrow s date is 19, so WIN FOR STEVIE

I don't mean to offend as I found this rant quite interesting, but I have some counterpoints.

1) If society is truly communist, all these poor college students would be given a chance to go and we wouldn't have this thread. Granted, it might have been once in few games, but it's more than the 0.

2) Does it matter who Essex county school district is investing in as long as they are making money? Isn't that what matters under pure capitalism? As far as I can tell, the Leafs are pretty profitable. No matter how bad they are, you'll always find people buying up tickets and swags.

3) The profit sharing plan and the cap is in fact a capitalistic movement for the NHL as a whole. The Illitchs and all the other powerhouse owners agreed to instate a cap and profit sharing. By increasing the viewership and interest in hockey in markets that aren't great like majority of the US, all the owners gain money. So, it's an investment.

4) The business and capitalism doesn't necessarily mean holding a sellout streak, not if it means getting the max profit. So if you can make more money by raising the prices and the lower turnout still makes more money than a lower ticket price and full turnout, then it's all good.

5) And lastly in accordance to the business decision, going to the game just isn't good business from the individual standpoint. It requires too much of me financially to pay 100 dollars when I can satisfy my desires watching the game. I'd love to be a good communist and support the cause and team spirit in person, but I’m just too selfish for that.

John

[Wingsor 2]

Takes deep breath lol....ok to address your points.

1) you said " If society is truly communist, all these poor college students would be given a chance to go and we wouldn't have this thread. Granted, it might have been once in few games, but it's more than the 0."

Response: This may sound harsh, but we're not trying to just get a little more than zero people to come out once in awhile to support the wings at the joe. Unfortunately that demographic, if that's how they support something, it won't keep any business afloat.

Well then maybe the rediculous expense of education should be dropped a bit as well. So should forcing students to take extra classes (and pay for them) that have very little or nothing to do with their majors. EG if youre working at McDonalds, teach the kitchen how to flip the burger, not how to raise a cow and slaughter it.

To be honest most students who cant go to the games due to price right now, couldnt go even if prices dropped. Theres schoolwork and expenses with limited income vs. travel time to joe, expense of ticket, drinks, food etc. Students have little time to work to make money and ticket prices will make no difference.

The way the money works in the NHL now is a bit communistic. In the free market, if you put a better product (on the ice) out there, and the people enjoy it and support it, you make more money. It is then your optioni in a democratic society to reinvest and make it better. None of this is now allowable to big market teams.

2) you said "Does it matter who Essex county school district is investing in as long as they are making money? Isn't that what matters under pure capitalism"

Response: NO THATS NOT ALL THAT MATTERS. North America is supposed to be a free market society with freedom of choice. The teachers should have a RIGHT to invest the money for themselves, or at the VERY LEAST an option as to which team they want to invest in. Putting money into a stock or bond, or giving you the option to invest in a corporation is one thing, but going behind your back and FORCING YOU to invest in the TO Maple Leafs is a joke. (plus anyone know knew of the Harold Ballard way they run things in TO, you would never want to invest in them. they build teams there to make money for the owners, not to win cups for the fans, that's the Ballard legacy) Give people the option if they want, but how dare you force people to invest in something they don't like. THATS NOT DEMOCRACY OR FREE MARKET SOCIETY. Thought it could be a good investment (WHICH IT'S NOT), it's not ONLY money making that defines a democratic vs communistic society. IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN IN THE USA, heads would roll...and they should.

3) you said "The profit sharing plan and the cap is in fact a capitalistic movement for the NHL as a whole. The Illitchs and all the other powerhouse owners agreed to instate a cap and profit sharing. By increasing the viewership and interest in hockey in markets that aren't great like majority of the US, all the owners gain money. So, it's an investment."

I disagree. The owners in the big markets LOATHE the new rules. It was forced on them, and they had to roll with the punches. Their hands were forced to agree with the powers that be. This so called profit sharing does not help the big market teams who have lost their payroll space. The exess revenue the Wings have to pay to the nhl collection jar goes to finance teams with low ticket prices and not so hot turn outs. There is not much left after that. Whether the NHL makes more money or not is never going to benefit the Wings or big markets much. All that will happen is the NHL will up the CAP. The system will remain, of draining money from the loyal fanbase and giving it to the others. There is never ANY incentive now for a big market team to reinvest money, make a better team that could win the cuip, and make their fans even happier. The dream of working harder, and being more loyal and becoming an exceptional success story is now lost in the NHL. I HATE IT, IT'S UNAMERICAN. I dont want my dollars when I buy red wings tickets, or red wings memorabilia to go to other teams, and that's only sensible.

4) you said " The business and capitalism doesn't necessarily mean holding a sellout streak, not if it means getting the max profit. So if you can make more money by raising the prices and the lower turnout still makes more money than a lower ticket price and full turnout, then it's all good."

Response: That is untrue. Look at all the big market hockey teams. They make the most money because their fans are loyal. That loyalty means those seats ARE sold all the time, that loyalty is what GIVES THEM their budget in a free market system. Otherwise by definition we wouldnt call them "big market" BIG MARKET is actually quite synonymous with "loyal enthusiastic market" in this case.

As for raising or lowering ticket prices, thats the call of each owner to make, not a centralized nhl fist. If a team can raise prices (like the wings) and the fans are willing to pay, and in turn they get to see the amazing stars we have over the last 15 years play in Detroit, then its worth it. If they fans DONT think its worth it, they WONT come out, the budget for such players will dry up, and owners are forced to lower prices. THAT is how free market works.

The honly teams that I know of that ever tried to make max profit and not reinvest it for the purpose of winning a cup was the Harold Ballard years of the Maple Leafs. Even big market teams dont win for awhile, theyre still reinvesting, look at the stars that have come through organizations like NYR.

If other small market teams dont have the budget, thats because people arent interested in the area (and you cant force it), or they dont have the cash in their local economy, or the people running it are lost. Look at teams like the Dallas Stars. They have quite a loyal fanbase, and theyre in TEXAS. They didnt need a communistic new NHL to build their fanbase. The fact is Dallas enjoys hockey, and therefore it stays. Any city that cant do it that way should FOLD. Maybe its possible Bettman is capable of making mistakes, maybe its possible he allowed expansion in the wrong cities, too much at once etc. If you have a bad product, or your product placement is incorrect, then in a free market, you must fold, move, or try something new.

5) you said "And lastly in accordance to the business decision, going to the game just isn't good business from the individual standpoint. It requires too much of me financially to pay 100 dollars when I can satisfy my desires watching the game. I'd love to be a good communist and support the cause and team spirit in person, but I’m just too selfish for that."

Response: If you were a good communist you'd go to the game? That makes no sense, unless youre insinuating that the only way youd like to go to the game is if it were free. That's not how things work though. If you actually like something, you work to get it, by saving a couple bucks here and there and going. If you never decide to go, then you either never have the money, or you just dont like it enough. Yes 100 bucks can seem steep, but it's the playoffs, and if everyone feels like you do, dont worry ticket prices will be FORCED to drop by mere laws of business...(but don't be surprised if the talent level on the team drops with it)

Ok well that's your standpoint, but not everyone is in the same bind financially. It's unfortunate, but some of us would like to pay to build a team that can win the cup. Some of us would like to pay a little more so we can see stars come through over 15 years. The Joe is sold out all the time, so I think my opinion is the popular one. However now the NHL won't let us use the money our team earns now, to make our product better.

The fact of the matter is, YOU WOULDNT EVEN HAVE the nhl if it weren't for big market teams, people would be much more complacent, bored, by definition the draw will be much less profitable and less income per ticket, you wouldnt have important dramatic rivalries over the years with teams like Det vs Col, Mon vs Tor etc etc etc over the years. There is no real way to get ahead in the new NHL as an owner who wants to make his team the best.

Personally, i feel if you cant stand on your own two feet,and draw a crowd... then fold (that's just business). Let cities who are begging for teams have a crack at it. Let business work the way it should. The teams will stay where it's popular. Socialized corporate welfare is a joke.

The fact remains that if you build it they will either come, or it's not meant to be.

GOOOOO WINGS!

Edited April 19, 2007 by Wingsor

[OsGOD 3]

I have already been to both games 1 and 2 sooo well I am done for the year. 192% markup is about all i am willing to pay to attend a game at the Joe.

[Wingsor 2]

I have already been to both games 1 and 2 sooo well I am done for the year. 192% markup is about all i am willing to pay to attend a game at the Joe.

That's very loyal, wow! Hey that's alot of playoff hockey too, and you got to see the Wings take a 2-0 lead in the series...to me in the playoffs, it's worth it!

I'd rather have that then cheap tickets during the regular season, and golf come April.

[Chelios57 31]

I may actually just be able to scrounge up money to go to this game with some friends.

Here's to hoping I go!

[FnuLaird 0]

Wish I could go to a game so bad but......... I'm in high school...... can't really aford it...... GO WINGS!!!!!

[bobmarley 0]

I couldn't find tickets... (in calgary) =/

[Wingsor 2]

Wish I could go to a game so bad but......... I'm in high school...... can't really aford it...... GO WINGS!!!!!

yeah, its hard to get cash when youre in school. don't worry those days will pass soon enough.

watching the game on TV is good too if youre a student.

it's on CBC HD tonight in Canada, what station is it on in the US? VS HD? is it hd?

You know that in Canada, when a game is on CBC, they wont let me watch the VS american broadcast even though i subscribe to center ice! I'm forced to watch the canadian feed. Sucks. we should have the choice.

btw love your stevie pic FnuLaird...he looks so happy in it!

Edited April 19, 2007 by Wingsor

[wingfan4ever 0]

Trust me, if I could buy the tickets myself, I would be there in a heartbeat. BUT... I too am only a high school student, and I don't decide how to spend the money.

[Wingsor 2]

Trust me, if I could buy the tickets myself, I would be there in a heartbeat. BUT... I too am only a high school student, and I don't decide how to spend the money.

I didn't get to go to too many games either when I was in high school....little money, all books, and parents rules lol

(plus i often lived 2 hours to 2 days drive away, but still got down here once in awhile)

Edited April 19, 2007 by Wingsor

[Offsides 21]

It's hard to get the money when you have jobs and kids and mortgages and such, too.

I understand being a struggling college student...I've been there. But honestly it was much easier having a job in college, living at home and going to school to find the money (although Wings always sold out for me back then)

It's much harder when you graduate...have to somehow find a decent job in this hellhole of an economy, and pay rent/mortage, utilities, car, car insurance, etc, etc, etc..... and I don't even have kids yet...but there's more expenses there!

Edited April 19, 2007 by Offsides

[blind 0]

lol, taking a deep breath is right.

1) Yea, I’m all for both dropping tuition costs and cutting back on reqs (as I have yet to find a use for my 16 credits of German I took). But universities follow capitalistic mind set as well to gain funding for their prestige rather than capital. But that’s another story.

Students do study a lot, but that’s not all they do at all. Look at the turnout University of Michigan gets for its football games. In comparison, the amount the wings tickets costs is just a bit less than what I paid before for my UM football season tickets as a student.

Yes, and in this free market, you are investing in a specific team and the owners of that team see the benefit in investing in small market teams to try and increase those market sizes. This of it this way, in a big market team the fan base is well establish and the game of hockey are already integrated into the way of life. So, the money you invest in the area won't be as effective as investing in an area where people haven't had the exposure to the game of hockey and haven't really had a chance to like the game. There is more room to improve the small market and better chance of increasing your investment in a small market rather than on that's well developed as well. Businesses invest in partners all the time.

Sure if the big market teams see the monetary gains in their own cities are starting to drop, they will seek to invest more into their own cities. But seeing how much Toronto and Montréal suck and the strong loyalty of those markets still strong, it just doesn't seem necessary.

2) Who would you trust to invest money, a business person who studies it as a job or some teacher? I don't know all the details of Essex school system, but the teachers union or the person they selected with their freedom as a group to run their bonds and stuff could found it more profitable to invest in the Leafs. If the teachers aren't happy with their bond investments, they are free to simply change though a demand in their union or something to that effect. Perhaps the investment with the school district chooses is just the default investment option and they can change otherwise if they don't like it. And since they are still with the school, it could be they are happy with the return they receive. I do say, I'm just theorizing because I don't know the specifics of the issue. If they are really "Forced" then yea, heads should roll.

3) As I said in one, the owners are investing in other markets as well. If Atlanta’s small market becomes huge as they are winning more and drawing more people and establishing a greater fan base, the small market can become potentially a greater market than Detroit as the population of Atlanta is far greater. Especially now since their NBA team has been blowing chunks, it might be a good idea to invest there. If all the small market teams grow the Illitchs will eventually see their money back plus money from those growing markets that may surpass that of the wings.

As you mentioned, salary limits will also increase with the more the league earns. So if other teams are doing better the cap will also go up for the wings so they can continue to better their team as well to stay in their market.

4) I agree that the more loyal fans you have, the more you could make. But each loyal fan still has a limit of how much they are willing to pay to go to a game. And a business decision is to push to that mark where you can sell as many tickets at the amount that will maximize the total money you make. So if you raise your ticket prices to 100 dollars from 90, and you go from a sell out of 20k people to 19.5k attendance, you will make more money with the 100 dollar ticket and 19.5k attendance, $1950k versus $1800k (sell out). The point of business is to find that point where you make the most. And the more loyal your fans are the higher amount they will pay for a ticket, which allows you to raise the price more and still get the highest attendance to maximize profit. With big market teams you can push that higher.

You are also right in that you can't force people to like the game. I think the position of hockey or at least the horrible business man named bettman, believe that the reason the markets in the south are small is because there is that they aren't exposed to the game or a good team yet. But owners are starting to see that people really don’t have an interest for hockey in places like Atlanta and Nashville, which is why they are putting in last ditch efforts to put a good team on the ice and see if it draws any further interest in the game to make them bigger markets. The cap allows the NHL to test the markets in those places to see if they can grow. I'm all for moving both of those teams to cities like Quebec and Winnipeg again.

5) What I was insinuating is the nationalism and belief in a cause greater than just the individual required in communism, which is the idea as the faith and loyalty one has to a sports team. So I meant my loyalty for a sport team is not as high in comparison to my capitalistic mind set of business decision making. But I guess I or anyone else for that matter wouldn't mind free games either.

I agree you need big markets as that's what business is all about, finding the big markets and increasing the markets. What the league is trying to do along with all the owners in increase the global market as a whole through investment in potential markets or markets that could possibly grow. There is only such a limit market in Detroit and it's shrinking with all the people moving out of the state. So the NHL needs to find markets that can grow as well, and for Illitches, it would be a good idea to expand their investments than just hockey in Detroit to hockey all over.

Lastly, go wings!

John

[Wingsor 2]

ok, some of what you said makes more sense now, however I think the business dealings are all misguided and to the detriment of the nhl as a business, and the game as a sport....there are other ways to acheive what bettman wants, without penalizing the big market teams (which he is)... ill address that later or tomorrow, gotta clean up this place, having a bunch of people over to watch the game on my 65inch 1st gen sxrd in 5.1 woo hoo (unfortunately on the stupid CBC HD, i cant get the american feed...stupid CRTC and canadian broadcasting rules....if its on CBC, they dont show us the american feeds, even though i pay for the center ice package. oh yeah and when its on fsn or whatever, we also dont get the post game reports, they deliberately go out of their way to turn it off on us...argh)

GO WINGS

btw wings are already a global fanbase

Edited April 19, 2007 by Wingsor

[Wings_Rule_1010 4]

I didn't get to go to too many games either when I was in high school....little money, all books, and parents rules lol

(plus i often lived 2 hours to 2 days drive away, but still got down here once in awhile)

When I was in high school I somehow got my parents to drive my sister and I to the Joe for a playoff game and just drop us off. I had to pay for my seats (125 bucks!!), but it was totally worth it, because the wings won game 5 versus nashville

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Lets be real, just for a quick moment. Your typical Wings fan simply just can't afford to go to a playoff game. Here is a simple breakdown of cost for 1 person to attend a game.

Cheap ticket- $100

Parking - $25

Food - $20

Beverage - $10

Total - $155

Or, I could go to Cheli's, get food, beverage, and a great atmosphere to watch the game for about $30. Yeah, it'd be awesome to be there, but it's just too damn expensive.

[Superman54 91]

Going to the game tonight. Should be a good one, GO WINGS!!!

[OsGOD 3]

Lets be real, just for a quick moment. Your typical Wings fan simply just can't afford to go to a playoff game. Here is a simple breakdown of cost for 1 person to attend a game.

Cheap ticket- $100

Parking - $25

Food - $20

Beverage - $10

Total - $155

Or, I could go to Cheli's, get food, beverage, and a great atmosphere to watch the game for about $30. Yeah, it'd be awesome to be there, but it's just too damn expensive.

Depending on where you live... Gas to get down there as well.

[Wings_Rule_1010 4]

Lets be real, just for a quick moment. Your typical Wings fan simply just can't afford to go to a playoff game. Here is a simple breakdown of cost for 1 person to attend a game.

Cheap ticket- $100

Parking - $25

Food - $20

Beverage - $10

Total - $155

Or, I could go to Cheli's, get food, beverage, and a great atmosphere to watch the game for about $30. Yeah, it'd be awesome to be there, but it's just too damn expensive.

And then the problem is, no one really ever goes alone. So for a family to go, it was be super expensive. You're looking at 300 bucks for tickets alone for a family of three.... that said, because I only have to worry about myself (I am going with my roommate), I can afford to buy a ticket and split the price of parking.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Wings_Rule_1010

[OsGOD 3]

And then the problem is, no one really ever goes alone. So for a family to go, it was be super expensive. You're looking at 300 bucks for tickets alone for a family of three.... that said, because I only have to worry about myself (I am going with my roommate), I can afford to buy a ticket and split the price of parking.

Bingo Bango... Most people complaining from the computer desk about the vacancies at the joe are single seat ticket prices... So you are very right, for a Family to go (espically when both or more are from the same family) are vastly drained.

[Wingsor 2]

Bingo Bango... Most people complaining from the computer desk about the vacancies at the joe are single seat ticket prices... So you are very right, for a Family to go (espically when both or more are from the same family) are vastly drained.

you forgot to add teh price of the border for many of us who pay ten dollars per trip to go one mile across the border lol.

however most people i go with all pay for themselves, including me, which means single ticket prices are the deal.

when it comes to the playoffs, i set aside some money anticipating a great time full of wings wins, kowalksi sausages and mgd on tap! to me its worth it, but when I was in school all i could afford was a ticket per round and maybe one beer lol.

now if i had a family to pay for its harder, but i heard family packages are in the works for next year, plus i would just save up a little longer, and have to go a little less.....however regular season is one animal, the playoffs are another.

ALL I KNOW IS I WILL GO AS LONG AS IM ALIVE AND THE WINGS ARE WITHIN DRIVING DISTANCE! lol even when me and my gf go on trips we try to go to games in the other cities, eg, nashville, miami, minneapolis, chicago etc.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Wingsor

[OsGOD 3]

you forgot to add teh price of the border for many of us who pay ten dollars per trip to go one mile across the border lol.

Did not... Your obviously canadian and that is evil in detroit right now, not to mention you have your own teams to support

J/king, you are right... I omitted that aspect on accident. Thank god we don't have to pay fees like that, that is crap to...

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

And then the problem is, no one really ever goes alone. So for a family to go, it was be super expensive. You're looking at 300 bucks for tickets alone for a family of three.... that said, because I only have to worry about myself (I am going with my roommate), I can afford to buy a ticket and split the price of parking.

EXACTLY!!!! That, and like Wings_Rule said, who goes alone? A friend of mine and I went to about 10-12 games this year, we always sit in section 210, row 23 or whichever row is as high as you can go. I like sitting up that high, it gives a great view of the ice. Anyhow, face falue for tickets there are $22-$30 per. With all the BS fees from ticketmaster, it would typically cost us around $60 for our tickets (the pair). I know the WIngs haven't raised ticket prices in years, but they were one of the few teams who didn't lower ticket prices after the lockout. Come on Illitch, GIVE US POOR FANS A BREAK!!!!!!!! I would LOVE to be at the Joe for a playoff game, but it's too expensive. Easily between my friend and I we would spend $300. That's crazy.

[Wingsor 2]

Did not... Your obviously canadian and that is evil in detroit right now, not to mention you have your own teams to support

J/king, you are right... I omitted that aspect on accident. Thank god we don't have to pay fees like that, that is crap to...

dont worry the prices will come down a bit...AND MY FAVORITE TEAM IS DETROIT (second nyr, then nyi and montreal tied - however other canadians dont often consider quebec as very canadian-which is rude)...trust me IM NO FLAMES OR MAPLE LEAF FAN lol i dont hate anyone, but i dont like any canadian teams except montreal. I will always side with the wings no matter who they play

as for the wrong side of the border, i agree, but i dont live here by choice...its really hard for me as a very american (more american than most americans alot of my michigan friends say lol)- canadian to get in to live over there. seems its easier to get into the USA or Canada if you dont speak the language, know nothing about the place and have nothing but the clothes on your back.

GRRR im bitter lol....

its annoying i know alot of americans who want to live here, and i'd swap citizenship with them anyday lol

but if i must live in canada, im happy to live right next to hockeytown. the only city in canada i really love is montreal, but their winters are too damn cold, and its too far from the joe.

we both have great countries, i just would prefer to live in the US, i just like it there better myself, for many many reasons... lol...just being honest.

I wish the US would take over southwestern ontario, the rest of canada considers us the US anyhow so, im down, when's the vote? lol

GO WINGS!

Edited April 20, 2007 by Wingsor

[DETMURDS 7]

As the original poster said, "FOR STEVIE!" Lets hear a "For Stevie" battle cry!

FOR STEVIE!

[Wingsor 2]

As the original poster said, "FOR STEVIE!" Lets hear a "For Stevie" battle cry!

FOR STEVIE!

That was me with special regard to the date on the calendar, today the Wings turn the series back around and never look back

APRIL THE WHAT???? the 19 th that s right 19

THIS YEAR IS FOR STEVIE, especially on this day which bears his number!

LET'S GO RED WINGS!

Edited April 20, 2007 by Wingsor