Report: Habs offer 4-year deal to Andrei Markov

[Zeta Power 40 1]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=208871&hubname=nhl

[betterREDthandead 58]

Yeah. Andrei Markov. Being that the season's not yet over it isn't legal for teams to be offering contracts to other team's players so I don't think we have to worry about the Habs raiding our blueline just yet.

[Guest ZDH]

It's contracts like these which make me think Schneider might be gone. Holland would like to have him back but he will be offered $5 mil a year from a number of teams like the Rangers, Habs and Isles. Offensive dmen who can run a PP are very hard to come by and we have 2 of the best. I think Kenny has a number in his head with regards to #23 and if it exceeds that he will wish him luck and move on. The prices for UFA dmen has never been more crazy than it is now. Schneider will take a bit of a home town discount but will not be fleeced either. I can see the Wings going with no more than $4-4.5 mil a year but cannot see them offering 5.

Edited May 26, 2007 by ZDH

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

$5M is way out of our price range but I would've liked to add him to the roster. Schneider won't get $5M on a multi year deal from any team; he is 10 years older than Markov. If Schneider wants to stay in Detroit, and I suspect he does, Holland will probably sign him to a 1-year deal at around $3M.

I like Schneider but I'd rather the Wings not sign him. Let Kronwall handle that ice time, bring up a kid, and retain Daniil Markov. We need more of Markov's types on the team. With the way he played with Nick, I think there is a high probability of Markov being re-signed.

[Guest ZDH]

$5M is way out of our price range but I would've liked to add him to the roster. Schneider won't get $5M on a multi year deal from any team; he is 10 years older than Markov. If Schneider wants to stay in Detroit, and I suspect he does, Holland will probably sign him to a 1-year deal at around $3M.

I like Schneider but I'd rather the Wings not sign him. Let Kronwall handle that ice time, bring up a kid, and retain Daniil Markov. We need more of Markov's types on the team. With the way he played with Nick, I think there is a high probability of Markov being re-signed.

It will not be that low. Schneider had a great season and to give him a paycut? No that will not happen. Holland has to offer at least a bit of a raise. $4 mil would be the lowest offer. Age is not much of a facor because Holland only likes to give 1-2 year deals usually for UFA's.

If anyone is overpaid it's Kronwall who has not taken that next step. Even if you think Kronwall can handle being the #2 behind Nick, he can't stay healthy. So if we let go of Schneider and Kronwall goes down, then Nick is basically by himself out there as far as legit top 4 dmen go. Then there is Markov who is very underrated.

Schneider is still one of the elite offensive dmen in the game and he will not be lowballed. If Holland offered him $3 mil that is as good as a slap in the face and he will be gone.

Edited May 26, 2007 by ZDH

[Guest Crymson]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=208871&hubname=nhl

I wonder if they'll attempt to keep Souray.

I hope so, because I don't want him around here... at the very least, the protestations on this board after his constant defensive muckups would be enough to drive me up the wall.

[Guest ZDH]

I wonder if they'll attempt to keep Souray.

I hope so, because I don't want him around here... at the very least, the protestations on this board after his constant defensive muckups would be enough to drive me up the wall.

I can't see the Habs keeping Souray. From all indications he wants to move out to California to be with his daughter. So San Jose or LA likely. He is a 1 trick pony. Great on the PP but offers nothing else. At least Schneider can move the puck up ice very well and get the puck to the forwards and not just on the PP.

We will not be in the Souray sweepstakes because we do not need him and he will be too expensive. He will be grossly overapaid like Jovanovski was last summer.

I could see the Habs going after Schneider for sure. Flyers, Rangers and Isles as well. I think he will stay in Detroit though for $4-4.5 mil.

[Guest Crymson]

It will not be that low. Schneider had a great season and to give him a paycut? No that will not happen. Holland has to offer at least a bit of a raise. $4 mil would be the lowest offer. Age is not much of a facor because Holland only likes to give 1-2 year deals usually for UFA's.

If anyone is overpaid it's Kronwall who has not taken that next step. Even if you think Kronwall can handle being the #2 behind Nick, he can't stay healthy. So if we let go of Schneider and Kronwall goes down, then Nick is basically by himself out there as far as legit top 4 dmen go. Then there is Markov who is very underrated.

Schneider is still one of the elite offensive dmen in the game and he will not be lowballed. If Holland offered him $3 mil that is as good as a slap in the face and he will be gone.

Schneider will get $5m/yr from precisely nobody. He will likely get $4m/yr from precisely nobody also. One does not give pay-raises to a player going on 40. 'Tis common sense, and much of Schneider's production comes from the fact that the Wings` offensive strategy relies heavily on shots from the point on the PP. Perhaps only Montreal and Anaheim rely so much on this as the Wings do.

For those looking for an offensive PP man, Souray will be the #1 prey, and in this day there ARE many who can work on the point on the PP. Also, some teams--including the Wings--have taken to using forwards on the point in some situations. Further, Schneider is admittedly getting quite old and his performance on the ice has seen a slight decline (most notably on the defensive side of things). Finally, Schneider has had a great run in Detroit, and knows very well that his greatest chances for success lie here.

Markov is not underrated in any sense, by any team. Underrated players do not get $2m+/yr contracts.

[Guest ZDH]

Schneider will get $5m/yr from precisely nobody. He will likely get $4m/yr from precisely nobody also. One does not give pay-raises to a player going on 40. 'Tis common sense, and much of Schneider's production comes from the fact that the Wings` offensive strategy relies heavily on shots from the point on the PP. Perhaps only Montreal and Anaheim rely so much on this as the Wings do.

For those looking for an offensive PP man, Souray will be the #1 prey, and in this day there ARE many who can work on the point on the PP. Also, some teams--including the Wings--have taken to using forwards on the point in some situations. Further, Schneider is admittedly getting quite old and his performance on the ice has seen a slight decline (most notably on the defensive side of things). Finally, Schneider has had a great run in Detroit, and knows very well that his greatest chances for success lie here.

Markov is not underrated in any sense, by any team. Underrated players do not get $2m+/yr contracts.

I disagree with pretty much if not everything you just said and I totally stand by my comments because they are bang on. Common sense is that teams always overpay in UFA. One only need to look at Kubina, McCabe, McKee, Aucoin, etc. There are not many who can work the point on the PP hence the high price for such dmen. Schneider is not in decline at all, in fact he is better than when he fist came to the Wings. Markov is very underrated and you can't measure his value with stats. I expect Markov to make the same as he made last season or slightly more. Having moved around alot in his career, I'd think he would want to stay in Detroit. Playing with Lidstrom is an added bonus. However all it takes is for a desperate team to come along and offer him $4 mil and he is gone. Look how much Ottawa paid for Joe Corvo and he plays on their 3rd pair. I don't see a team offering Markov that because of his injury history. The Wings were lucky he played as many games as he did.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Lets drop this Markovs injury prone s*** right now please.

He was injured for 3 games the whole season , and never missed a playoff game.

Lidstrom missed 4 games , is he injury prone , nope. (Although , 1 or 2 games were agaisnt Chicago and Babs didnt want him playing agaisnt scrubs.)

[Guest ZDH]

Lets drop this Markovs injury prone s*** right now please.

He was injured for 3 games the whole season , and never missed a playoff game.

Lidstrom missed 4 games , is he injury prone , nope. (Although , 1 or 2 games were agaisnt Chicago and Babs didnt want him playing agaisnt scrubs.)

How about you take your condescending tone and shove it up your ass? Look at Markov's career. He has missed alot of games. He was healthy for the Wings luckily. Quit putting words in my mouth guy. When the hell did I say Lidsrtrom is injury prone?

How about you drop your s***. Because that is what it is. Sometimes I wonder if Red Wings fans even watch the games or if they only watch Red Wings games.

Edited May 26, 2007 by ZDH

[Booster313 138]

How about you take your condescending tone and shove it up your ass? Look at Markov's career. He has missed alot of games. He was healthy for the Wings luckily. Quit putting words in my mouth guy. When the hell did I say Lidsrtrom is injury prone?

How about you drop your s***. Because that is what it is. Sometimes I wonder if Red Wings fans even watch the games or if they only watch Red Wings games.

ZDH you should know something about these boards, being that you only joined yesterday. We're a loyal bunch and your not doing a very good job of making fast friends. If you keep up your antagonistic attitude you'll be black listed before you know it. It's not wise to come to someone else's party and start pissing all over the place. We welcome new members and differing views, however we all command respect. Please take this into careful consideration before you make your next post.

[Guest ZDH]

ZDH you should know something about these boards, being that you only joined yesterday. We're a loyal bunch and your not doing a very good job of making fast friends. If you keep up your antagonistic attitude you'll be black listed before you know it. It's not wise to come to someone else's party and start pissing all over the place. We welcome new members and differing views, however we all command respect. Please take this into careful consideration before you make your next post.

Respect is a 2 way street. Just because I am new does not give anyone the right to treat me like crap. I will not take it.

[Booster313 138]

Respect is a 2 way street. Just because I am new does not give anyone the right to treat me like crap. I will not take it.

Fair enough but I saw know disrespect until your last post where you asked another member of the boards to shove his opinion up his ass, for what because he disagreed with you and gave you a reason citing Lidstrom as an example. You assumed that he had a condescending tone? How can you tell? I'm not trying to start a war and if it's simply a misunderstanding then welcome to the boards. I value your differing opinions, that's what makes this so interesting...there is just no need to get nasty...unless your a ducks fan.

Edited May 26, 2007 by Booster313

[Guest ZDH]

Fair enough but I saw know disrespect until your last post where you asked another member of the boards to shove his opinion up his ass, for what because he disagreed with you and gave you a reason citing Lidstrom as an example. You assumed that he had a condescending tone? How can you tell? I'm not trying to start a war and if it's simply a misunderstanding then welcome to the boards. I value your differing opinions, that's what makes this so interesting...there is just no need to get nasty...unless your a ducks fan.

When people tell me they "guarantee" something, I find that to be ridicuous. Crymson comes across to me as a wannabeknowitall. I'm not trying to be rude here but that is what I get from his posts. No one can "guarantee" anything. None of us are Ken Holland.

I also cannot stand when people put words in my mouth. I never said Lidstrom was injury prone and did not appreciate a poster assuming this. What has Nick missed, like 3 games in his career?

I am not stupid. I know when I am being disrespected. I am all for having civil conversation. However I will not take any crap when its thrown at me. I will defend myself.

Perhaps the best thing is to just ignore the people insulting me. That way I can't be baited into wasting my time with them. I think I just solved my own dilemma. Thank you.

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

It will not be that low. Schneider had a great season and to give him a paycut? No that will not happen. Holland has to offer at least a bit of a raise. $4 mil would be the lowest offer. Age is not much of a facor because Holland only likes to give 1-2 year deals usually for UFA's.

If anyone is overpaid it's Kronwall who has not taken that next step. Even if you think Kronwall can handle being the #2 behind Nick, he can't stay healthy. So if we let go of Schneider and Kronwall goes down, then Nick is basically by himself out there as far as legit top 4 dmen go. Then there is Markov who is very underrated.

Schneider is still one of the elite offensive dmen in the game and he will not be lowballed. If Holland offered him $3 mil that is as good as a slap in the face and he will be gone.

If he wants to stay in Detroit, it HAS to be that low. If they want to make another run with the current roster, guys will have to take less money so a competitive roster can be put on the ice. Schneider can get closer to $4M elsewhere. No will shell out $5M for him. From his attitude towards the Wings since he got here, I don't think he'd leave for a million on some shoddy team that is not going to the playoffs. When you're coming to the end of your career, it's not about the dollar but about the shiny silver chalice.

Kronwall is 12 years younger than Schneider, I won't even get into that debate.

[Dominator2005 558]

I can't see the Habs keeping Souray. From all indications he wants to move out to California to be with his daughter. So San Jose or LA likely. He is a 1 trick pony. Great on the PP but offers nothing else. At least Schneider can move the puck up ice very well and get the puck to the forwards and not just on the PP.

We will not be in the Souray sweepstakes because we do not need him and he will be too expensive. He will be grossly overapaid like Jovanovski was last summer.

I could see the Habs going after Schneider for sure. Flyers, Rangers and Isles as well. I think he will stay in Detroit though for $4-4.5 mil.

I disagree - Souray said that his 1st priority is to sign with Montreal longterm deal. I think that Montreal will offer him up to $6M...

[Guest ZDH]

If he wants to stay in Detroit, it HAS to be that low. If they want to make another run with the current roster, guys will have to take less money so a competitive roster can be put on the ice. Schneider can get closer to $4M elsewhere. No will shell out $5M for him. From his attitude towards the Wings since he got here, I don't think he'd leave for a million on some shoddy team that is not going to the playoffs. When you're coming to the end of your career, it's not about the dollar but about the shiny silver chalice.

Kronwall is 12 years younger than Schneider, I won't even get into that debate.

Well if this happens then Schneider is as good as gone. He'll score 20 goals and get 60 points on another team. So the pressure would be on Kronwall to step up. I don't see him doing it. Right now he is not worth $3 mil a season. You can't be "potential" every season. Sooner or later he has to s*** or get off the pot.

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

Glad to hear you have the confirmed word on it. Do wish him good luck on our behalf.

[Guest ZDH]

Glad to hear you have the confirmed word on it. Do wish him good luck on our behalf.

I see so it's ok for you to have your "confirmed word on it" but no one else is allowed. That's nice of you. Let me ask you something. If you do very well at your job, or even better, would you take a pay cut when your contract is up? Your logic makes no sense. I've already stated Schneider will likely take less to stay in Detroit. You want him to take less than he was already making. He took less than his market value in his last contract. Holland is a fair GM. He will not lowball Schneider like that. The Wings have a reputation of rewarding excellence, not punishing it. Just because Schneider is 38 does not mean he deserves to be disrespected. If the Wings don't pay him, a number of teams will. In a 30 team league, guys like Schneider are at a premium. Because we have Lidstrom, losing Schneider will not break us. I don't see another player available in UFA we can replace Schneider with who will make less than he does. Stuart? He will get alot of money too.

Dmen who can put up points are paid well for it. That's just the way it is. I'd love to get Schneider back at $3.5 mil or 3 mil but it is not realistic. Datsyuk got $6.7 mil when most Wings fans thought he would only get 5 or 5.5. You have valuable players you have to pay valuable money. Especially when they are UFA's.

Not all players are going to take pay cuts to play for the Red Wings. In Schneider's time here he has never won a Cup let alone played in a Cup Final. So what makes Detroit a guarantee? Sure the Wings proved they are one of the best 4 teams in the league. That does not guarantee however Schneider will take a slap in the face to stay here.

If Schneider was willing to take a pay cut or play for $3.5 mil again, Holland would have already signed him. That would be a steal. Look at what other UFA dmen have signed for last summer and the one before...McCabe 5.5 mil, Kubina 5, Aucoin 4, McKee 4. None of these guys are nearly as valuable as Schneider is. Jovanovski who needs to shake his goalies hand at the end of each season to introduce himself got 6 mil. It's nuts what these guys make but that is where the market is. Schneider is a top 10 dmen in the league and he will get top 10 dman money. This is just common sense. You don't have to like it.

"Matt you played great, we want to give you a pay cut." Makes no sense.

Edited May 27, 2007 by ZDH

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

This argument comes up every single time. Real life is not comparable to sports. When you're 25 and working at a job, you might be kicking everyone's behind, but stuck at an entry level position. At 38, you could've worked your way up to being the CFO. And your experience and your productivity and your value could present you the opportunity of being the CEO at 45. Provided you are a hardworking invidividual, your skills will not decline at 38, your production will not go down, in fact, you will shoulder more responsibility and keep earning more money. And the more money your employer makes, the better you look. Oh yeah, there is no "salary cap" in the working world. There is a budget, but you can extend your budget, and you don't get penalized for it if you keep bringing in the dough.

An athlete has a limited shelf life. His/her skills are more physical. A body wears down after a while. It's fantastic for Schneider having the year that he just had. No one said he is a bad player or a bad person, but this is the salary cap world in the NHL, and teams do get penalized for extending the limit. You don't give someone money because he had a good year. You look at the team's needs and move in the necessary direction.

The Red Wings did not suffer during the season when Schneider was out. Could've used him against Anaheim but what the heck, could've used a healthy Zetterberg and Bertuzzi and Kronwall, too. Sure, Schneider is a nice option to have, he makes plays happen, especially on the PP, but he's not the pulse of the team like a Nick Lidstrom is. Or like a Datsyuk is. He's not a top-10 defenseman in this league. He's one of the top offensive defensemen; overall, not so much. I'd be shocked if anyone offers him $5M.

In a cap world, a guy like Schneider at 38 years of age at $4M is a luxury. Some teams can afford those, the Red Wings will not be able to because they're watching the wallet and looking to spend on more pressing needs -- like a physical stay-at-home defenseman and a big forward. There is no bash on Schneider, there is no bash on his play. But one needs to understand that in a cap world, one has to invest wisely, and a 38-year old with a cannon on the PP might not be more important than a guy who will go down and block a shot playing against the opposition's top line, or more important than a guy who will stand in the crease to score goals.

Schneider, in his time in Detroit has always expressed a desire to win. With the run the team just had, he knows they could make another strong one next year. He is well aware of the cap limit. If he wants to be a part of a team that has a chance, he will have to take a paycut, and he might be open to it. If another competitive team offers him more, he could go there. The guy has been here a while now, he knows the Wings can't open up their wallets to him. The choice is his, let him make it before you declare him gone already.

What the heck, the Wings might not even make an offer and let him walk. Re-sign Markov, give the extra minutes to Kronwall.

[Guest ZDH]

This argument comes up every single time. Real life is not comparable to sports. When you're 25 and working at a job, you might be kicking everyone's behind, but stuck at an entry level position. At 38, you could've worked your way up to being the CFO. And your experience and your productivity and your value could present you the opportunity of being the CEO at 45. Provided you are a hardworking invidividual, your skills will not decline at 38, your production will not go down, in fact, you will shoulder more responsibility and keep earning more money. And the more money your employer makes, the better you look. Oh yeah, there is no "salary cap" in the working world. There is a budget, but you can extend your budget, and you don't get penalized for it if you keep bringing in the dough.

An athlete has a limited shelf life. His/her skills are more physical. A body wears down after a while. It's fantastic for Schneider having the year that he just had. No one said he is a bad player or a bad person, but this is the salary cap world in the NHL, and teams do get penalized for extending the limit. You don't give someone money because he had a good year. You look at the team's needs and move in the necessary direction.

The Red Wings did not suffer during the season when Schneider was out. Could've used him against Anaheim but what the heck, could've used a healthy Zetterberg and Bertuzzi and Kronwall, too. Sure, Schneider is a nice option to have, he makes plays happen, especially on the PP, but he's not the pulse of the team like a Nick Lidstrom is. Or like a Datsyuk is. He's not a top-10 defenseman in this league. He's one of the top offensive defensemen; overall, not so much. I'd be shocked if anyone offers him $5M.

In a cap world, a guy like Schneider at 38 years of age at $4M is a luxury. Some teams can afford those, the Red Wings will not be able to because they're watching the wallet and looking to spend on more pressing needs -- like a physical stay-at-home defenseman and a big forward. There is no bash on Schneider, there is no bash on his play. But one needs to understand that in a cap world, one has to invest wisely, and a 38-year old with a cannon on the PP might not be more important than a guy who will go down and block a shot playing against the opposition's top line, or more important than a guy who will stand in the crease to score goals.

Schneider, in his time in Detroit has always expressed a desire to win. With the run the team just had, he knows they could make another strong one next year. He is well aware of the cap limit. If he wants to be a part of a team that has a chance, he will have to take a paycut, and he might be open to it. If another competitive team offers him more, he could go there. The guy has been here a while now, he knows the Wings can't open up their wallets to him. The choice is his, let him make it before you declare him gone already.

What the heck, the Wings might not even make an offer and let him walk. Re-sign Markov, give the extra minutes to Kronwall.

I see Schneider getting many offers from many teams. He is still an elite offensive dman and shows no signs of slowing down at 38. What could happen and may happen does not apply here. Teams go by what IS. Agents and GM's use numbers when it comes to players. Guys who don't put up the great stats, like Markov, things like ice time and blocked shots and other variales are entered into the equation.

They have to go by numbers or else what is there to go by? A GM and an agent have to prove their case like a lawyer would.

When looking at Schneider the agent will likely say "there are 8 teams who are willing to pay my client over $4.5 mil a year. I have 2 teams willing to go 5. What are the Red Wings offering?" If Holland says "we wish to offer him $3 mil because we have no Cap space." Schneider, like all players, has a value. The market determines it. The team decides to either pay it or not.

Lets face it. When it really comes down to it the players are about the money. Sure, they will take hometown discounts for teams they want to finish their career with. But money will always be important. If Schneider gives up a million or 2 less this summer for the Red Wings, he will never get that back when he retires.

It's a business. If I'm Schneider and I have 8 teams willing to pay me $1 million more on average than the Wings are, then I'm not coming back to Detroit. We'll see what Schneider does. Wings fans on this board seriously under estimate Schneider's worth on the open market. You guys will say I overrate it.

I keep coming back to the same facts in my logical argument...

McCabe, Kubina, Jovanovski, McKee, Aucoin...are any of these players better offensively than Schneider is who has a long and proven track record of offensive production? Not even close. Yet they were all proven in excess of $4-5 million a season.

Yes we will see what happens this summer. I for one hope he is back. We missed him vs Anaheim big time. Take him off that blueline and teams can key on Nick even more. He is an important part of the Wings puzzle.

Holland even said it himself. He would like to keep Schneider but the team may not have enough Cap space to do so. That tells me he knows Schneider's value is high and that he has to see how much less he is willing to sacrifice in order to remain a Red Wing. Same goes for Bert and Markov.

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

Babe, I know he has value but Kubina, McCabe, Jovanovski and McKee all have one thing on Mathieu -- age. Kubina is 30, McCabe is 32, Jovocop is 31 and McKee is 30. These guys are all in their prime (Not that I'm a fan of either except McKee), but Schneider is 38.

The CBA says: If you sign a guy to a multi-year deal after he is 35 years old, he will count towards the cap from his second year on no matter what happens (Unless you're the Devils). Every team will keep that mind and make offers accordingly. I can't see any team offering $5M. If someone does, good for Matty.

[Guest ZDH]

Babe, I know he has value but Kubina, McCabe, Jovanovski and McKee all have one thing on Mathieu -- age. Kubina is 30, McCabe is 32, Jovocop is 31 and McKee is 30. These guys are all in their prime (Not that I'm a fan of either except McKee), but Schneider is 38.

The CBA says: If you sign a guy to a multi-year deal after he is 35 years old, he will count towards the cap from his second year on no matter what happens (Unless you're the Devils). Every team will keep that mind and make offers accordingly. I can't see any team offering $5M. If someone does, good for Matty.

UFA signing period is nuts and is getting even more crazy. I see a team like the Habs after losing Souray panicking and offering Schneider a 2 year deal worth $10 million. We see panic signings all the time. It's like teams want to fill their needs and then think later. Schneider will not get a long term deal from any team. 2 years is what I expect. The stats don't lie. Schneider produces and teams know that. You get what you pay for.

Edited May 27, 2007 by ZDH

[Systemfel 33]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=209144&hubName=nhl

He's signed. Four years and $23M with a cap number of 5.75 per year.