Would you trade Samuelsson for Lapointe?

[superstarsingh 23]

Defense does win championships. I am well aware of such. But Selanne was an integral part of their success, if you dont see that, its not my problem. Martain Lapointe is 33...WHO GIVES A s***? He could be 23 and I still would not want him because he is not what we need. He can fight, big deal. Watch, this season, Sammy will out perform Marty. Face it, his better days are behind him. Chicago is not shopping Marty, they are shopping his salary. Thankfully, Ken Holland is our GM and not kindlwillbegreat. Any Wings fan knows damn well that Kenny would not trade Sammy for Martin Lapointe, now dont go crazy saying that I think I know Holland. I know his characteristics and I am sure there are people who know what I am talking about.

Many will argue that defense wins championships...Yeah Selanne did his part; if he were out/not playing for 1 reason or another I'd say the Ducks were still in a position of winning it all. It's not as though their success hinged on Selanne, & Selanne only - remember it's a team sport, & the team as a whole contributed, & they won.

We're off topic - are we not?

I stand by my original answer; yes I would like to have Martin Lapointe back for what he can provide which I have stated numerous times already...I'd prefer only to have Marty if he "came cheap", or an even-up trade for Samuelsson, & if Holland made every attempt to sign other UFA's that would be of greater benefit to the team.

He cannot come cheap. He deserves league minimum. There are many UFAs that we should think about over Marty. Marty should not even be thought of.

Dont even know who you are. Never heard of nor seen you before. You must have a real big impact on the boards pal. The band of computer nerds must stick together eh? lol Isnt there some star trek episode you're missing right now? Hurry up! Go! You're world is a play button away! Wooooooooooooooo!

If you do not know who who Crymson is or if you have not heard of him before you should be banned from LGW. Its pretty much impossible to not know who Crymson is.

[Production Line 1]

Nope, there again was a time for Lapointe and he left...come back at the hometown discount and we will talk...trade for him, NO WAY...

[Guest Crymson]

Dont even know who you are. Never heard of nor seen you before. You must have a real big impact on the boards pal. The band of computer nerds must stick together eh? lol Isnt there some star trek episode you're missing right now? Hurry up! Go! You're world is a play button away! Wooooooooooooooo!

Well, in that case, hi! Nice to meet you.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Crymson

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Defense does win championships. I am well aware of such. But Selanne was an integral part of their success, if you dont see that, its not my problem. Martain Lapointe is 33...WHO GIVES A s***? He could be 23 and I still would not want him because he is not what we need. He can fight, big deal. Watch, this season, Sammy will out perform Marty. Face it, his better days are behind him. Chicago is not shopping Marty, they are shopping his salary. Thankfully, Ken Holland is our GM and not kindlwillbegreat. Any Wings fan knows damn well that Kenny would not trade Sammy for Martin Lapointe, now dont go crazy saying that I think I know Holland. I know his characteristics and I am sure there are people who know what I am talking about.

He cannot come cheap. He deserves league minimum. There are many UFAs that we should think about over Marty. Marty should not even be thought of.

If you do not know who who Crymson is or if you have not heard of him before you should be banned from LGW. Its pretty much impossible to not know who Crymson is.

they could of won the cup without selanne , its not my problem if YOU dont see that lol ......sammy will outperform marty lmao ,if you just keep looking at the stats which is obviously what determines to you if a player is good or not

Thankfully, Ken Holland is our GM and not kindlwillbegreat. ------------im sure most people here feel that way about you

Any Wings fan knows damn well that Kenny would not trade Sammy for Martin Lapointe, now dont go crazy saying that I think I know Holland. ------------------ dont worry i will , you seem to have convinced yourself that you know him better then anyone else in the world so theres no need to tell you what you already know , and i dont give a crap who crymson is , hes just some dude who posts on the boards that you seem to agree with alot and i dont , who cares , if you think hes some god on the msg board then you got bigger problems then i thought lmao

and you guys still havent mentioned a player capable of doing the same role as marty that you think would fit here so theres no point talking to you guys , you just like to complain

Dont even know who you are. Never heard of nor seen you before. You must have a real big impact on the boards pal. The band of computer nerds must stick together eh? lol Isnt there some star trek episode you're missing right now? Hurry up! Go! You're world is a play button away! Wooooooooooooooo!

LMAO

Edited June 26, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[superstarsingh 23]

You are a different breed of fan. Almost all of the people on this board know Ken Holland, not personally obviously. But when you are attatched to a team for so long and you follow that team and such you learn the GMs characteristics and Ken Holland does not really trade players away who had one mediocre year for a player who had a mediocre year and is older. Hollland trades away youth and guys like Williams when he gets something back. Dealing away picks and prospects for guys like Lang and Bertuzzi who were stars in the league at one point. Williams for Calder was a simple trade, Williams was on the block and had fallen out with Babs, he needed to be moved. Samuelsson does not have the same situation as Williams, he is not being shopped. We are not complaining, we are stating the obvious. We have Martyesque players already, why go and burn 1.2 million when we have such players already? It is a waste of money, money that we do not HAVE to waste. We have to lock up our own UFAs and pitch to others with only 10 million.

Yes Crymson is a poster. Yes, I agree with him on this topic. I have also not agreed with him many times in the past. But the one thing I RESPECT (not worship) about him is the LOGIC involved in his posts. I do not know Crymson, I know OF Crymson, he has been an LGW member for about as long as I have and again, he is a LOGICAL poster which is something this board needs a bit more of.

Edited June 26, 2007 by superstarsingh

[Guest Agalloch]

Pretty ironic, coming from you.

Ha, so true. The guy's a complete dumbass. It's best to ignore him, or he'll start with his insults that make little sense, and only embarrass himself. He reminds me so much of ZDH -- a fellow moron.

Anyway, no, Lapointe is not still a "great player" as the moronic thread starter wants to believe. He's an awful player, and one that is making 2.4 million at that. Yes, let's take up more cap space for a guy that will, you know, do next to nothing for the team! Sounds ******* great!

[Wildwings44 5]

Sounds good to me

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Ha, so true. The guy's a complete dumbass. It's best to ignore him, or he'll start with his insults that make little sense, and only embarrass himself. He reminds me so much of ZDH -- a fellow moron.

Anyway, no, Lapointe is not still a "great player" as the moronic thread starter wants to believe. He's an awful player, and one that is making 2.4 million at that. Yes, let's take up more cap space for a guy that will, you know, do next to nothing for the team! Sounds ******* great!

the moronic thread starter lmao ......if anyone here is a moron its you , and i never said he was GREAT , i said he was still a good player for what he does ( and you morons have yet to name a player that can do the job marty would that would cost us less money wise , or giving up sammy ) , nice way to over exagerate once again ....i guess your problem really lies is what the 2.4 million hes making , i can guarantee you if he came here at 500k and was doing a good job for us , you'd be like what a great pick up ! nice job kenny! lmao

Yes, let's take up more cap space for a guy that will, you know, do next to nothing for the team! Sounds ******* great!

since you seem to only pay attention to stats , lapointe on a really crap team scored 1 goal less then samuelsson , yes he did have 30 games more , but as i mentioned he played with an awful team while sammy , who yes is way overrated even though you seem to wanna kiss his ass so much played with a great team , sammy is so good he came close to going back to sweden before we got him

[C-Dub 0]

Would you trade Samuelsson for Lapointe?

No, I wouldn't. The time for signing aging players that may help us push towards a Cup is over. Sammy has a future in the team. Lapointe's time (as much as I loved the guy) is over in Detroit.

Edited June 26, 2007 by C-Dub

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

You are a different breed of fan. Almost all of the people on this board know Ken Holland, not personally obviously. But when you are attatched to a team for so long and you follow that team and such you learn the GMs characteristics and Ken Holland does not really trade players away who had one mediocre year for a player who had a mediocre year and is older. Hollland trades away youth and guys like Williams when he gets something back. Dealing away picks and prospects for guys like Lang and Bertuzzi who were stars in the league at one point. Williams for Calder was a simple trade, Williams was on the block and had fallen out with Babs, he needed to be moved. Samuelsson does not have the same situation as Williams, he is not being shopped. We are not complaining, we are stating the obvious. We have Martyesque players already, why go and burn 1.2 million when we have such players already? It is a waste of money, money that we do not HAVE to waste. We have to lock up our own UFAs and pitch to others with only 10 million.

Yes Crymson is a poster. Yes, I agree with him on this topic. I have also not agreed with him many times in the past. But the one thing I RESPECT (not worship) about him is the LOGIC involved in his posts. I do not know Crymson, I know OF Crymson, he has been an LGW member for about as long as I have and again, he is a LOGICAL poster which is something this board needs a bit more of.

how do you know ken holland if its not personal ?? you hear interviews on tv and check the sites and you assume automatically that you know what player he would take and which one he wouldnt ?? I assume you also knew he wanted markov before we even got him right , cause "you know" kenny lmao , your excuse about following the team for so long is crap , i been following the wings for 20+ years and you cant 100% know who he would bring here or wouldnt , your main thing like the others about marty not coming is cause his salary even though you say its cause hes a past wing , i can bet you if marty was a free agent and wanted to come here for 700k kenny would take him, he wouldnt say , sorry marty your time here has come and gone lmao, and enough with the older stuff marty is just 3 yrs older then sammy

Holland trades away picks , cause we have all seen we are capable of finding good players in later rounds , and the youth he gives up are players who arent top prospects to begin with and never will ......fleischmann,matthias, williams .....we got enough of those types of players coming up . And how do you know for certain samuelsson isnt being shopped ?? next to hudler and lilja hes the most likely guy to be traded on our team , theres no one else after those 2 i can see us shipping off , sammy is definetly tradeable

We got enough marty players on the team do we ? Funny cause i cant rememeber seeing anyone stand up for our team and who is willing to fight for us , i do remember pronger cheap shotting holmstrom and seeing holmstrom on the floor bleeding , and pronger skateing like nothing happened and our players acting like it was ok , and not even going up to that punk

And crymson is a poster .......good for him lmao , you agree with him thats your right man , your entitled to your own opinions as i and others on the board are , incase you havent noticed there were people here who agreed with me , i did notice there were some that agreed with you and thats their right as well , you can say crymson is logical all you want , lets just again , lets agree to disagree , i wont change your mind on this situation and you sure as hell wont change mine

[Guest Agalloch]

the moronic thread starter lmao ......if anyone here is a moron its you , and i never said he was GREAT , i said he was still a good player for what he does ( and you morons have yet to name a player that can do the job marty would that would cost us less money wise , or giving up sammy ) , nice way to over exagerate once again ....i guess your problem really lies is what the 2.4 million hes making , i can guarantee you if he came here at 500k and was doing a good job for us , you'd be like what a great pick up ! nice job kenny! lmao

Yes, let's take up more cap space for a guy that will, you know, do next to nothing for the team! Sounds ******* great!

since you seem to only pay attention to stats , lapointe on a really crap team scored 1 goal less then samuelsson , yes he did have 30 games more , but as i mentioned he played with an awful team while sammy , who yes is way overrated even though you seem to wanna kiss his ass so much played with a great team , sammy is so good he came close to going back to sweden before we got him

Are you DetroitIan's brother? I said I don't like Samuelsson in my first post in this topic. Wow, you're talking out of your ass. What a surprise. He takes bad penalties, misses wide open nets because he's a terrible player, and is making 2.4 to boot. He would provide nothing to the team. The only reason you want him back is because he used to play for the Wings. And hey, 99% of the people in this topic agree that he shouldn't come back. You're outnumbered here, and you're wrong.

And I wouldn't even take him for 500k (which is beside the point anyway, because he ISN'T making 500k). You have to use your younger players eventually.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

No, I wouldn't. The time for signing aging players that may help us push towards a Cup is over. Sammy has a future in the team. Lapointe's time (as much as I loved the guy) is over in Detroit.

i respect your opinion but as you already know i disagree , the fact that some of you guys bring up the age factor is laughable when you consider marty is only 33 , 3 yrs older then sammy , plenty of 33 yr olds still can play , and dont bring in the stats again( not you specifically , but others) cause marty isnt a goal scorer even though he can get 10-15 during the season , hes a physical gritty player who goes in the corner for pucks and fights for his teammates.......

.i still think he can play , and if any of you catch chicago games online or with the center ice package then check it out for yourselves and youll see he can still play for an "OLD MAN" lmao

and as for sammy having a future on this team is laughable , even he makes it to the end of his contract , if he gets a couple of other 20 goal seasons hes gonna wanna get 2 million + per season and thats when kenny says take a hike chump cause some other young kid we got could come here and do what you did

Are you DetroitIan's brother? I said I don't like Samuelsson in my first post in this topic. Wow, you're talking out of your ass. What a surprise. He takes bad penalties, misses wide open nets because he's a terrible player, and is making 2.4 to boot. He would provide nothing to the team. The only reason you want him back is because he used to play for the Wings. And hey, 99% of the people in this topic agree that he shouldn't come back. You're outnumbered here, and you're wrong.

And I wouldn't even take him for 500k (which is beside the point anyway, because he ISN'T making 500k). You have to use your younger players eventually.

i dont have a brother , like im gonna remember what you said on your first post , the way you talk about sammy you sure seem to be *** for him

He takes bad penalties, misses wide open nets because he's a terrible player, and is making 2.4 to boot. ----------how do you know he misses wide open nets ?? cause you seen it happen once you think it happens all the time ? LMAO , now whos talking out of their ass ?? Sammy sure as hell misses the net alot , his shots are laughable , everytime hes on the ice i laugh

AND how many times do i gotta tell you and your "friends" that marty being a past wing has nothing to do with me wanting him back ? I said i wouldnt take back mccarty, fedorov, kozlov ........this has nothing to do with his past , got it ?? If draper last played for us 7 yrs ago and came back now would you be complaining ?? No cause draper is good at what he does, he wont get 20 + goals but hes a good checker and penalty killer

99% percent of the board agrees with you .........LMAO maybe you should go back and check all the people who agreed with me , i remmeber seeing quite a few , once again stop talking out of your ass, i do agree we gotta use our younger players eventually , i just think marty is a good fit for our team for the type of role he brings , id much rather have him on the team then maltby , now maltby is a player who we have where most of our players can play his role and kill penalties

Edited June 26, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[C-Dub 0]

and dont bring in the stats again( not you specifically , but others) cause marty isnt a goal scorer even though he can get 10-15 during the season , hes a physical gritty player who goes in the corner for pucks and fights for his teammates.......

Again, I loved Marty when he was in Detroit, but heck, the only reason I would want him for is physical and defensive play. I'd be hesitant to sign him for that task, given he's not had a positive +/- rating for the past four years. He's not what he used to be anymore, that's what it comes down to.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Again, I loved Marty when he was in Detroit, but heck, the only reason I would want him for is physical and defensive play. I'd be hesitant to sign him for that task, given he's not had a positive +/- rating for the past four years. He's not what he used to be anymore, that's what it comes down to.

You gotta take into consideration where a players been playing as well , hawks and bruins of the last few yrs have stunk it up .....look at selanne and kariya , they were just awful in colorado .....a change of teams can do wonders

[Guest DetroitIan]

Ha, so true. The guy's a complete dumbass. It's best to ignore him, or he'll start with his insults that make little sense, and only embarrass himself.

Sound like anyone you know? Like....maybe YOU. HAHAHA! Man you just described yourself to a T. ******* *****.

Talkin s*** over the comp is gettin old. PM me ANYTIME you wanna meet up near downtown Detroit. Dude ANYTIME. Then we'll see how much s*** you talk then. Other then crying to your mama. Little *****.

[Guest Crymson]

You gotta take into consideration where a players been playing as well , hawks and bruins of the last few yrs have stunk it up .....look at selanne and kariya , they were just awful in colorado .....a change of teams can do wonders

Since you seem hesitant to listen, I will refer you to the league standings for the years in which Lapointe played for the Bruins.

In '01-'02, the Bruins finished with 101 points, FIRST PLACE in the Eastern Conference. In the NHL overall, they were second in points only to Detroit.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...hl19272002.html

In '02-'03, the Bruins finished with 87 points, good for 7th in the Eastern Conference.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...hl19272003.html (Boston 87 points, finished 7th place in eastern conference)

In '03-'04, the Bruins finished with 104 points, good for SECOND PLACE in the Eastern Conference. In the NHL overall, they were tied with the Sharks for third in points, behind Tampa Bay and Detroit.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...hl19272004.html

Now, please don't try to tell me again that Lapointe has played on crappy teams since he left Detroit. Boston was not a crappy team in the regular season in any of those three years, and indeed in two of them Boston was one of the best. Lapointe managed to put up a decent +/- in ONE of those years, just as he always struggled to put up a decent +/- in his years with the Red Wings. If you look into Lapointe's overall stats, you'll see that he has put up a significant + total a whopping TWO times in his career, despite playing for the Wings and Bruins most of those years. Upon moving to a mediocre team for this first time in his career, he promptly logged hideous +/- totals; in fact, his +/- totals have been amongst the worst of the Blackhawks in both of years with the team. What does that tell you about his true play? The obvious conclusion is that he's a terrible defensive player, and that he can only log a DECENT plus/minus if he has a fabulous defense behind him. He will NEVER log a good plus/minus no matter who he is on the ice with; he has proven that. In short, he needs a whole ton of help on defense while he's on the ice, and if he doesn't get it then watch out.

Like I said: what's your deal?

Edited June 26, 2007 by Crymson

[Guest Shoreline]

Hell no. Today I'd always take Sammy on my team over Marty every time.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Since you seem hesitant to listen, I will refer you to the league standings for the years in which Lapointe played for the Bruins.

In '01-'02, the Bruins finished with 101 points, FIRST PLACE in the Eastern Conference. In the NHL overall, they were second in points only to Detroit.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...hl19272002.html

In '02-'03, the Bruins finished with 87 points, good for 7th in the Eastern Conference.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...hl19272003.html (Boston 87 points, finished 7th place in eastern conference)

In '03-'04, the Bruins finished with 104 points, good for SECOND PLACE in the Eastern Conference. In the NHL overall, they were tied with the Sharks for third in points, behind Tampa Bay and Detroit.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...hl19272004.html

Now, please don't try to tell me again that Lapointe has played on crappy teams since he left Detroit. Boston was not a crappy team in the regular season in any of those three years, and indeed in two of them Boston was one of the best. As you can see, Lapointe managed to put up a decent +/- in ONE of those years.

If you look into Lapointe's overall stats, you'll see that he has put up a significant + total a whopping TWO times in his career, despite playing for the Wings and Bruins most of those years. He has played for a mediocre team for precisely two seasons, and has promptly logged hideous +/- totals--in fact, his +/- totals have been amongst the worst of the team both years. What does that tell you about his true play? The obvious conclusion is that he can only log a decent +/- with a fabulous defense behind him.

Like I said: what's your deal?

hesitant to listen lmao , i think your the one whos hesitant to listen , i told you this before but i guess it went in and out ......yes the bruins had a couple of good seasons when marty was there ( the 7th place season was nothing to brag about) .....and since your an all "stat" guy im surprised you didnt mention the fact that he had 17 goals in his first year there .......

anyways as i stated previously joe thornton , murray and others were the main guys in boston and didnt perform stat wise in the post season , martys role has never been to be a goal scorer so how you can blame boston for losing in the playoffs as his fault , thornton was under performing in the post season for years and even in this post season his lone goal was an open net , and boston never had solid goaltending , yet marty was a main reason for them not moving forward , as we know too well if you perform well during the season as a team and then lose in the 1st round then it doesnt matter , marty had 17, 8 (in 53 games) and 15 goals during those seasons in boston , he did more then his part for the kind of player he is

He has played for a mediocre team for precisely two seasons, and has promptly logged hideous +/- totals--in fact, his +/- totals have been amongst the worst of the team both years. What does that tell you about his true play? --------------------that tells me exactly what you just said , that hes been playing for really awful teams , when he was with the wings he had only one bad +/- season

now if you wanna be such a wise ass about the stats ( cause thats the only way you can determine if a player is good or not ) , then check sammy's +/-

he was + 1 last year , far from being great numbers , and besides last year with the wings he was -21 on back to back seasons , but of course you dont bring that up

and heres another stat for you , sportsnet description on his assets

Assets

Is extremely industrious, tough and usually disciplined. Can score big goals and plays a strong two-way game. Has excellent leadership skills.

good 2 way player , but i guess there wrong right ??? because he had those really awful +/- the last few seasons since he left here he just sucks as a hockey player .........you say he just gets a decent +/- when he has a good defense surrounding him ?? isnt that with everyone ?? if a good player is surrounded by bad defense and an average goalie then the +/- stat wont be so good

brad richards was -19 last season but according to you he sucks and you would never take him right ? ( forget his salary , im talkin about his playing ability, and before you complain no i wouldnt take him here cause his salary is way too high) Theres more to a player then just stats , if martys +/- were so high its cause the team had alot more problems going for them then just marty's "supposed" horrible 2 way play

Edited June 26, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[Guest Crymson]

hesitant to listen lmao , i think your the one whos hesitant to listen , i told you this before but i guess it went in and out ......yes the bruins had a couple of good seasons when marty was there ( the 7th place season was nothing to brag about) .....and since your an all "stat" guy im surprised you didnt mention the fact that he had 17 goals in his first year there .......

Please don't even try to pull out this horribly weak argument. The Bruins were near the top of the EC two out of three seasons. That's significant.

Marty had one decent season there. Good for him. This was '01-'02, the season in which he first got his contract. If you hadn't noticed, his number have steadily gone downhill from there.

anyways as i stated previously joe thornton , murray and others were the main guys in boston and didnt perform stat wise in the post season , martys role has never been to be a goal scorer so how you can blame boston for losing in the playoffs as his fault , thornton was under performing in the post season for years and even in this post season his lone goal was an open net , and boston never had solid goaltending , yet marty was a main reason for them not moving forward , as we know too well if you perform well during the season as a team and then lose in the 1st round then it doesnt matter , marty had 17, 8 (in 53 games) and 15 goals during those seasons in boston , he did more then his part for the kind of player he is

I do believe I said nothing about the playoffs. When were we speaking to the playoffs? I was always speaking to his regular season stats. I believe we're looking at +/- here when talking about his defensive play. His +/- has, pretty much, sucked, and that was on good teams. Also, his goal production was not anything to brag about, again considering that he had lots of good players around him.

He has played for a mediocre team for precisely two seasons, and has promptly logged hideous +/- totals--in fact, his +/- totals have been amongst the worst of the team both years. What does that tell you about his true play? --------------------that tells me exactly what you just said , that hes been playing for really awful teams , when he was with the wings he had only one bad +/- season

now if you wanna be such a wise ass about the stats ( cause thats the only way you can determine if a player is good or not ) , then check sammy's +/-

I believe my point was that he was hardly able to log a significant plus with GREAT teams. When he got onto a team on which he did not have significant help from a stellar defense, his +/- went from around even to terrible. If the guy can't log a good +/- on a great team, what does that say about him?

he was + 1 last year , far from being great numbers , and besides last year with the wings he was -21 on back to back seasons , but of course you dont bring that up

Nice try. You do realize that Sammy was a +27 in '05-'06, with 45 points, yes? That isn't the mark of a bad defensive player. Has Sammy ever pulled a rep as a bad defensive player? No. Has Marty? Absolutely--constantly. That's the point.

and heres another stat for you , sportsnet description on his assets

Assets

Is extremely industrious, tough and usually disciplined. Can score big goals and plays a strong two-way game. Has excellent leadership skills.

Ah, I don't think that the SportsNet description is the be-all, end-all of a player's capabilities. Ever seen Cleary's description? They still refer to him as lazy, with a sub-par work ethic.

good 2 way player , but i guess there wrong right ??? because he had those really awful +/- the last few seasons since he left here he just sucks as a hockey player .........you say he just gets a decent +/- when he has a good defense surrounding him ?? isnt that with everyone ?? if a good player is surrounded by bad defense and an average goalie then the +/- stat wont be so good

Yup, they sure are wrong. There are a tremendous amount of hockey fans who would disagree with that assessment. Did you watch the Wings back in the day? No? Then you wouldn't really know, would you?

Sure, if a good player has a crap defense around him he won't do so well. However, Marty couldn't even manage to rack up a significant plus with a GREAT defense around him and a GREAT goalie behind him.

brad richards was -19 last season but according to you he sucks and you would never take him right ? ( forget his salary , im talkin about his playing ability, and before you complain no i wouldnt take him here cause his salary is way too high) Theres more to a player then just stats , if martys +/- were so high its cause the team had alot more problems going for them then just marty's "supposed" horrible 2 way play

If Marty scored 70 points with only 23 PIM, I'd be willing to overlook any defensive flaws of his. As is, he doesn't score nearly that much and his defensive play sucks, and he has a tendency to repeatedly produce PP chances for the other team.

I do believe I didn't say a thing about the playoffs. We were speaking on the regular season.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Crymson

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Please don't even try to pull out this horribly weak argument. The Bruins were near the top of the EC two out of three seasons. That's significant.

Marty had one decent season there. Good for him. This was '01-'02, the season in which he first got his contract. If you hadn't noticed, his number have steadily gone downhill from there.

I do believe I said nothing about the playoffs. When were we speaking to the playoffs? I was always speaking to his regular season stats. I believe we're looking at +/- here when talking about his defensive play. His +/- has, pretty much, sucked, and that was on good teams. Also, his goal production was not anything to brag about, again considering that he had lots of good players around him.

I believe my point was that he was hardly able to log a significant plus with GREAT teams. When he got onto a team on which he did not have significant help from a stellar defense, his +/- went from around even to terrible. If the guy can't log a good +/- on a great team, what does that say about him?

Nice try. You do realize that Sammy was a +27 in '05-'06, with 45 points, yes? That isn't the mark of a bad defensive player. Has Sammy ever pulled a rep as a bad defensive player? No. Has Marty? Absolutely--constantly. That's the point.

Ah, I don't think that the SportsNet description is the be-all, end-all of a player's capabilities. Ever seen Cleary's description? They still refer to him as lazy, with a sub-par work ethic.

Yup, they sure are wrong. There are a tremendous amount of hockey fans who would disagree with that assessment. Did you watch the Wings back in the day? No? Then you wouldn't really know, would you?

Sure, if a good player has a crap defense around him he won't do so well. However, Marty couldn't even manage to rack up a significant plus with a GREAT defense around him and a GREAT goalie behind him.

If Marty scored 70 points with only 23 PIM, I'd be willing to overlook any defensive flaws of his. As is, he doesn't score nearly that much and his defensive play sucks, and he has a tendency to repeatedly produce PP chances for the other team.

I do believe I didn't say a thing about the playoffs. We were speaking on the regular season.

weak excuse ????? LMAO the team as a whole did nothing in the post season , marty had good regular seasons , its not an excuse its a fact , one player doesnt doesnt make a team win a series by themselves unless its a goalie , marty had a 15 and 17 goal season in boston i think its more then just one decent season , and in the other season there he had 8 goals in 59 games , and after he left boston he had a 14 and 13 goal season ( Since your so obsessed with stats )

For the type of player lapointe is those are good seasons , he was never a 20 goal scorer so i dont no wtf your talking about, if you just wanna talk about +/- he was + 12 his 1st year , -19 when they finished 7th and -5 his 3rd , granted not great but neither was samuelsson at +1 this past season ........brad richards was -19 so i guess he sucked too , numbers dont always tell the truth but you wouldnt know that

Also, his goal production was not anything to brag about, again considering that he had lots of good players around him. ------Im not bragging about his goal productions but it is a nice amount for a player who isnt suppose to score and wtf you talkiing about good players around him ?? its not like he played with thornton and the best bruins players

Its hard to log good +- numbers when you play with weak teams with no good goalie and no defense , again stop looking at that stat cause it doesnt always tell the truth , if you put draper in chicago and he was -14 would you say he sucks ?? Again doesnt tell the truth

If the guy can't log a good +/- on a great team, what does that say about him? -------he was + 12 in his 1st year at boston but you dont mention that , 2nd year you said they finished 7th:?? That doesnt make it a great season , he was -19 in 59 games , i cant remmeber that season specfically but maybe boston was struggling and during the last 20 + they fought to make it into 7th ?? Regardless he did miss 20 games where he could of cut it down , and his last year there he was -5 not great by any stretch of the imagination but not as awful as you seem to think it is , again sammy was only +1 nothing to brag about either , and his next 2 seasons he played for the awful hawks

You do realize that Sammy was a +27 in '05-'06, with 45 points, yes? That isn't the mark of a bad defensive player. Has Sammy ever pulled a rep as a bad defensive player? No. Has Marty? Absolutely--constantly. That's the point. -----------------See your a joke man you only see what you wanna see you dont mention the average +1 this past season or his previous -21 back to back seasons , and your delusional if you think playing witth the wings wasnt the reason he was +27, and your marty constantly is laughable

Ah, I don't think that the SportsNet description is the be-all, end-all of a player's capabilities. Ever seen Cleary's description? They still refer to him as lazy, with a sub-par work ethic. ------------ever heard of players stats dont always tell the tale of a players capabilities ????? Obviously not

You wanna keep talkin stats when boston finished 1st , they were 12th on goals allowed in the season , hardly 1st place numbers for a "great" team as you put it , there defense was never great , and alot of other teams were close to them so they could of easily been 15-20 in the goals allowed, i dont know where you get tthis idea of great defense and great goaltending , 2nd season they were 24th in the league in goals allowed , and the last season he was there they were , 7th in goals allowed which seemed to be the only decent year they had in goals allowed

Again stop lookin at the stats and nice cover up by saying if marty got 70 pts it would be ok if he was -20 , thats your little story your using to explain brad richard's -19 season .........he had 70+ pts so its ok lol , as if i havent said it enough marty lapointe isnt a goal scorer and hes not a 50-70 pt guy , 10-15 goals for what he brings to the table is good , and again stop looking at the stats they dont always tell the true story of a player , but if you wanna play it that way sammy wasnt impressive before he came here

Anyways its pretty obvious we wont agree with one another on this subject

[canadienhater 0]

You gotta take into consideration where a players been playing as well , hawks and bruins of the last few yrs have stunk it up .....look at selanne and kariya , they were just awful in colorado .....a change of teams can do wonders

you gotta take into account that sammy gets it done with not much ice time

[savaking72 0]

I would trade him in a second. Sammy didn't show any passion during the playoffs. He wasn't battling-giving up good chances. He is way to streaky to be cosidered dependable. Myself, I would send him packing.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

you gotta take into account that sammy gets it done with not much ice time

sammy had powerplay time and the past few seasons had lots of chances to play with zetterberg , not hard to get 15-20 goals under those circumstances

I would trade him in a second. Sammy didn't show any passion during the playoffs. He wasn't battling-giving up good chances. He is way to streaky to be cosidered dependable. Myself, I would send him packing.

yup , sammy is awful , the people here who are arguing to keep him , want him here cause hes making 1.2 and getting 14-20 goal seasons , i guess there not paying attention to his play on the ppl and his constant turnovers

Edited June 27, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[superstarsingh 23]

Nobody here is overly fond of Sammy. I do not care about him. I would rather have him than have Lapointe. Case closed.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Nobody here is overly fond of Sammy. I do not care about him. I would rather have him than have Lapointe. Case closed.

Actually, I thought he was awful last postseason - along with alot of other guys. I had hoped the Wings would get rid of him last summer, but.....they didn't. This post-season though, he was pretty solid. Stats aren't on fire, but pretty good for a role player guy - 15 mins per game, he had 3G 8A +/-2 with a GWG. Plus I thought his all around play was good - well the whole team's was. I guess I've become a Sammy fan - took awhile though.

So therefore, NO I would not trade him for LaPointe. Marty is done in Detroit - probably done period, esp rotting in Chicago.

edit: oh I forgot he was - let's just say - not stellar on the pp point - but he's not Schneider and he shouldn't of been there all things considered

Edited June 27, 2007 by RockyMountainWingGal