The Wings, The Cap, and The Future

[rick zombo 3,739]

Sooooooooo, lets say Detroit signs Smyth for a long term deal at say 5.5M/yr.

In the 2009-10 season, Zetterberg will be a UFA.

After this season, Lidstrom will be a UFA.

Datsyuk is sogned for 6.7/yr.

How will this team be able to sign Zetterberg in 09-10?

You'd have:

Datsyuk - 6.7M

Lidstrom - 7M

Smyth - 5.5M

Zetterberg - 5.5-6M

for a total of approx. 25M

even if the cap is at 55M that only leaves 30M to fill out a roster which needs 19 more players.

[wingsfan40 0]

I have a solution...forget Smyth

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Sooooooooo, lets say Detroit signs Smyth for a long term deal at say 5.5M/yr.

In the 2009-10 season, Zetterberg will be a UFA.

After this season, Lidstrom will be a UFA.

Datsyuk is sogned for 6.7/yr.

How will this team be able to sign Zetterberg in 09-10?

You'd have:

Datsyuk - 6.7M

Lidstrom - 7M

Smyth - 5.5M

Zetterberg - 5.5-6M

for a total of approx. 25M

even if the cap is at 55M that only leaves 30M to fill out a roster which needs 19 more players.

Signing Smyth, or any other big name UFA won't happen this year. Kenny has gone on record saying Detroit has about $10 to spend. That just isn't enough to get Smyth, and the rest of what Kenny needs.

[evil204 4]

I think Lidstrom could be gone by 09-10.

Don't kill me.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I think Lidstrom could be gone by 09-10.

Don't kill me.

Unfortunately, that could very well happen. However, a good chunk of his money should go to find the next best thing on defense, since it'll be next to impossible to fill Lidstrom's shoes.

Also RZ, I don't see Z signing for $5.5-$6 million. With the cap continually rising and his value to the team (which IMO is greater than Dats') he'll sign for around $7 million.........which he'll deserve every penny of.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Dixie Wingslover 0]

I think we may have gotten a little spoiled by 2002..... into thinking we need to have big names to win..... we don't. historically, we have done really well with 'role players' - meaning maybe instead of looking at huge names.... we need to be looking for players who can be developed.... and who may have unexploited playing abilities due to circumstances tht could give the team good value for their pay.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I think we may have gotten a little spoiled by 2002..... into thinking we need to have big names to win..... we don't. historically, we have done really well with 'role players' - meaning maybe instead of looking at huge names.... we need to be looking for players who can be developed.... and who may have unexploited playing abilities due to circumstances tht could give the team good value for their pay.

I'm all for this, but you still have to have some big names and go-to guys when you're at the most crucial times of the playoffs. You need leaders to step up. This is where a team full of role-guys-only would fail.

Make no mistake, the Wings in 97 and 98 had atleast a handful of "big" names.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[JayUp88 1]

Heres a thought don't sign Smyth.

Nick wont be around forever he is getting up there and i don't see him playing forever like cheli

Zets is going to get a big pay check theres nothing we can do about that.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I think Lidstrom could be gone by 09-10.

Don't kill me.

Lidstrom will never leave this team. You can bet when he retires he'll be up in the rafters where he belongs, and thus cementing him as a perpetual part of the team.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

i dont think it will happen at all but i think it can happen

smyth 5.5 datsyuk 6.7 filppula 710k

sammy 1.2 zetterberg 2.65 holmstrom 2.25

franzen 940k cleary 660k grigorenko 858k

kopecky 500k draper 2.1 maltby 888k

( some extra forward from rapids ??)

lidstrom 7.6 regher 2

kronwall 3 lebda 650k

quincey 510k chelios 850k

meech 500k

hasek 2.5

ozzie 850k

43.916 ( including 500k for the extra forward)

we can trade for regher , before anyone complains yes im sure the flames wouldnt trade him to us or anyone for that matter .......just replace him by markov and add an extra 500k ........im sure most will say add schneider , but by keeping markov over schneider we get to keep an extra 2.5 for the cap for next year ( if matty is given a 2 yr 5 mil per )

next year we got alot of players to sign

filppula ( id say we'd resign him for a 3-4 yr deal at 2 mill per )

grigorenko ( if he does well he could get around the 2 mill mark or just go back to russia)

cleary ( he'd get around the 2 mill mark)

draper ( should take a 1 mill deduction)

chelios( same price range)

quincey ( id resign him at a lebda type deal , 750-800k for 4 yrs )

meech ( wont get much )

ozzie ( likely will be back if we want him to , no one would take him )

hasek ( probably replaced by howard so that should be 1.5+ cap space we get back)

lidstrom ( if i were holland id give lidstrom the new cap max,around 9 mill and then give lidstrom maybe 5 million the year after when zetterberg gets his big deal )

anyways going back to smyth .........i think it can happen but it would require alot of work and i dont think it will happen with alot of our guys getting raises in the next few years , plus we got a smyth type player in holmstrom for a hell of a bargain price , i see us more going for 1-2 year contracts, guys like bertuzzi, guerin ,forsberg who can help us but wont require a longterm deal like youll see the unrestricted free agents getting this summer

Edited June 27, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[StevieY9802 6]

the cap will stop going up eventually and begin to level off. I would love to see Smyth here but Hank is going to get big bucks in 2 years and you have to plan for that and other raises. It would be hard to keep them around. Not worth it in my mind. The future is more of a concern now than in the past. And I agree some people got spoiled from summers of 01-03.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

we can trade for regher , before anyone complains yes im sure the flames wouldnt trade him to us or anyone for that matter .......just replace him by markov and add an extra 500k ........im sure most will say add schneider , but by keeping markov over schneider we get to keep an extra 2.5 for the cap for next year ( if matty is given a 2 yr 5 mil per )

next year we got alot of players to sign

anyways going back to smyth .........i think it can happen but it would require alot of work and i dont think it will happen with alot of our guys getting raises in the next few years , plus we got a smyth type player in holmstrom for a hell of a bargain price , i see us more going for 1-2 year contracts, guys like bertuzzi, guerin ,forsberg who can help us but wont require a longterm deal like youll see the unrestricted free agents getting this summer

Again, the Wings don't have the cap space to sign any of the 'tier 1' UFA's this off season. Kenny needs to sign 2 top 6 forwards, and a top 4 dman. Not to mention Dom.

Getting Smyth, as much as I would LOVE it, just isn't in the cards.

As for Markov, he made $2.5 this past season, he WILL get a raise.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

anyone know how much cap space we lost this season due to chelios and hasek ?? 300k for chelios right ?? hasek 900k?? Thats 1.2 mill we already lost lol , id rather just give chelios the 1.150 you know he'll get it anyways , and we got enough players to resign next year , if we get bertuzzi back id rather just give him 2.5-3 mill for one year , none of this bonus bs, if not then take a hike , next year with all those guys needed to resign we could of already lost 2 million in cap space

Again, the Wings don't have the cap space to sign any of the 'tier 1' UFA's this off season. Kenny needs to sign 2 top 6 forwards, and a top 4 dman. Not to mention Dom.

Getting Smyth, as much as I would LOVE it, just isn't in the cards.

As for Markov, he made $2.5 this past season, he WILL get a raise.

Well i did say i didnt think it would happen , but i think its possible , it would just take alot of work , cross out bertuzzi , bring in the younger cheaper d men as quincey and meech as the 7th guy , forget schneider hes a goner , and your probably right about markov but i dont see any team giving him 3.5+ ........maybe 3 mill, 3.25 per

i wouldnt mind having a guerin say come here for a 1 yr 4 mill offer , its only a one year deal and playing with datsyuk he can get 35-40 goals

Edited June 27, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

anyone know how much cap space we lost this season due to chelios and hasek ?? 300k for chelios right ?? hasek 900k?? Thats 1.2 mill we already lost lol , id rather just give chelios the 1.150 you know he'll get it anyways , and we got enough players to resign next year , if we get bertuzzi back id rather just give him 2.5-3 mill for one year , none of this bonus bs, if not then take a hike , next year with all those guys needed to resign we could of already lost 2 million in cap space

I'm not sure how exactly is works out, but I know the entire paid bonus doesn't count against the cap. It's something like a $500-$800k hit.

Well i did say i didnt think it would happen , but i think its possible , it would just take alot of work , cross out bertuzzi , bring in the younger cheaper d men as quincey and meech as the 7th guy , forget schneider hes a goner , and your probably right about markov but i dont see any team giving him 3.5+ ........maybe 3 mill, 3.25 per

i wouldnt mind having a guerin say come here for a 1 yr 4 mill offer , its only a one year deal and playing with datsyuk he can get 35-40 goals

With the lack of quality top 4 dmen as UFA's, and overpayment by Philly, Markov could see $3.5-$4 from a team with some cap space to burn.

Edited June 27, 2007 by BringHomeTheCup!

[Guest Crymson]

I have a solution...forget Smyth

Problem solved.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

I'm not sure how exactly is works out, but I know the entire paid bonus doesn't count against the cap. It's something like a $500-$800k hit.

really ?? the whole bonus they get doesnt count against the cap fhe following year ?? thats good , weird though i thought it did for some reason, i wont complain

With the lack of quality top 4 dmen as UFA's, and overpayment by Philly, Markov could see $3.5-$4 from a team with some cap space to burn.

as much as i liked markov at that price he can take a hike lol , id rather let the kids play .........and i know we dont usually allow young kids to come in right away but if kindl is ready id bring him up , he almost made the team last year , why wait if hes good enough ?? It could be to our benefit to bring him up and let him learn from lidstrom and chelios while he's still got the chance

[Guest Crymson]

anyone know how much cap space we lost this season due to chelios and hasek ?? 300k for chelios right ?? hasek 900k?? Thats 1.2 mill we already lost lol , id rather just give chelios the 1.150 you know he'll get it anyways , and we got enough players to resign next year , if we get bertuzzi back id rather just give him 2.5-3 mill for one year , none of this bonus bs, if not then take a hike , next year with all those guys needed to resign we could of already lost 2 million in cap space

Well i did say i didnt think it would happen , but i think its possible , it would just take alot of work , cross out bertuzzi , bring in the younger cheaper d men as quincey and meech as the 7th guy , forget schneider hes a goner , and your probably right about markov but i dont see any team giving him 3.5+ ........maybe 3 mill, 3.25 per

i wouldnt mind having a guerin say come here for a 1 yr 4 mill offer , its only a one year deal and playing with datsyuk he can get 35-40 goals

All this talk about Smyth, from a guy who tried to insult me for the supposed--and incorrect--insinuation that I thought we could get him on the team.

Guerin could not get 35-40 goals playing with Joe Thornton, let alone Datsyuk. Did you notice that he didn't really score from February on last year?

[eva unit zero 271]

really ?? the whole bonus they get doesnt count against the cap fhe following year ?? thats good , weird though i thought it did for some reason, i wont complain

Chelios and Hasek combined for like 1.1m in bonuses, quite a bit of which finished out our cap space last year. Less than half of the bonus money should affect our cap.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

All this talk about Smyth, from a guy who tried to insult me for the supposed--and incorrect--insinuation that I thought we could get him on the team.

Guerin could not get 35-40 goals playing with Joe Thornton, let alone Datsyuk. Did you notice that he didn't really score from February on last year?

And le tthe arguing commence ! lol

You did think we could get smyth ........and the only reason i said it not likely to happen was cause at the time we had to resign schneider and possibly markov but now with the timonen signing , keeping those 2 guys is pretty much not gonna happen now , i still think its nearly impossible to get smyth and i wouldnt hold my breath on it happening , but i think if we brought up our younger cheaper d men , forget bertuzzi then smyth could be an option especially if he really wants to be here ( as the rumors say, but i dont believe everything i read) I can see smyth taking a bit less to go to a team he really wants to go to

As for guerin he did not play the whole season with thornton so i dont know wtf your talking about , he got 8 goals in 16 games in sj which averages out to 32 goals in 64 games which will add up to 35-40 goals in a season ..........as i said , we can get alot worse players then bill guerin to come here on a one year deal

Chelios and Hasek combined for like 1.1m in bonuses, quite a bit of which finished out our cap space last year. Less than half of the bonus money should affect our cap.

cool thanks for the info i just thought the whole bonus was shifted to the next season , i didnt know you can pay off most of the bonus if you had cap space from that season , thats good news.......if the cap goes to 50.5 next year thats even better news for us

Edited June 27, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[rick zombo 3,739]

I have a solution...forget Smyth

OK. Let's say we do that then. You're basically saying forget signing anyone but Lidstrom, Pavel, and Hank for more than 5M.

So for the next 4 years, no one in the 5 M dollar range, be it Smyth of otherwise will be added to this team.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

OK. Let's say we do that then. You're basically saying forget signing anyone but Lidstrom, Pavel, and Hank for more than 5M.

So for the next 4 years, no one in the 5 M dollar range, be it Smyth of otherwise will be added to this team.

it'll be hard to add those types of players here .......only way i can see it happening is if its a 1-2 yr deal max type deals before all of our younger guys get decent raises ( cleary,franzen,filppula,hudler,lebda etc..)

[Rice 42]

Go for Smyth. The Wings need to go for it while Lidstrom is still playing and that may mean taking risks down the road.

[Flip-check 6]

Unfortunately, that could very well happen. However, a good chunk of his money should go to find the next best thing on defense, since it'll be next to impossible to fill Lidstrom's shoes.

Also RZ, I don't see Z signing for $5.5-$6 million. With the cap continually rising and his value to the team (which IMO is greater than Dats') he'll sign for around $7 million.........which he'll deserve every penny of.

I agree, Z at 6 would be a steal, and 5.5 pointblank robbery.

I really don't think we're going to pick up Smyth though. Even if Markov and Schneider both ( ) walk.

[Guest Crymson]

And le tthe arguing commence ! lol

You did think we could get smyth ........and the only reason i said it not likely to happen was cause at the time we had to resign schneider and possibly markov but now with the timonen signing , keeping those 2 guys is pretty much not gonna happen now , i still think its nearly impossible to get smyth and i wouldnt hold my breath on it happening , but i think if we brought up our younger cheaper d men , forget bertuzzi then smyth could be an option especially if he really wants to be here ( as the rumors say, but i dont believe everything i read) I can see smyth taking a bit less to go to a team he really wants to go to

As for guerin he did not play the whole season with thornton so i dont know wtf your talking about , he got 8 goals in 16 games in sj which averages out to 32 goals in 64 games which will add up to 35-40 goals in a season ..........as i said , we can get alot worse players then bill guerin to come here on a one year deal

I've never said a thing about getting Smyth. You admitted that before. You seem to have a penchant for somehow losing information along the way. Do you have memory problems?

I never said Guerin played on a line with Thornton. Again, way to go. And I suggest you start watching hockey, because nearly half of those 8 goals came in the form of a late-season game against the Blackhawks, who had Lalime in net to boot. He then proceeded to score zero goals in nine playoff games.

Honestly, where do you get off on acting like you know everything?

OK. Let's say we do that then. You're basically saying forget signing anyone but Lidstrom, Pavel, and Hank for more than 5M.

So for the next 4 years, no one in the 5 M dollar range, be it Smyth of otherwise will be added to this team.

We did fine this year, didn't we?

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

I've never said a thing about getting Smyth. You admitted that before. You seem to have a penchant for somehow losing information along the way. Do you have memory problems?

I never said Guerin played on a line with Thornton. Again, way to go. And I suggest you start watching hockey, because nearly half of those 8 goals came in the form of a late-season game against the Blackhawks, who had Lalime in net to boot. He then proceeded to score zero goals in nine playoff games.

Honestly, where do you get off on acting like you know everything?

We did fine this year, didn't we?

memory problems lmao

I never said Guerin played on a line with Thornton. Again, way to go. ----------------You did say guerin could not get 35-40 goals with thornton so with that dumb statement i assumed you thought they played together .......i dont know how you could assume guerin wouldnt be able to get 35 goals with thornton , when cheechoo got 56 goals with him , and his previous high was 28 , and guerin got 28 on a really bad stl team before coming down to san jose .

Your just stating an opinion but stop making it sound like you know its a known fact that guerin wouldnt get 35-40 goals playing with thornton , thats just stupid .......And i do believe he would be able to get 35-40 goals in detroit playing with datsyuk with the shot he has and also getting ppl time

And i guess your not the one who watched hockey cause if you did you'd know lalime did have a good stretch towards the end where he played really well , then again you just check "stats" .....And just cause he had a bad stretch doesnt mean anything players get bad stretches at times , guerin still got 8 goals in the season in 16 games with the sharks and have 36 goals at the end of the year , pretty dam good year for guerin if you ask me

Honestly, where do you get off on acting like you know everything? ------------Your the one who acts like you know it all , you just check the stats and assume you know everything about a player , your saying guerin wouldnt get 35-40 goals with thornton with such conviction when you got no proof when you know for a fact cheechoo had a 28 goal improvement playing with thornton , and you dont think guerin could get 35 goals with thornton feeding him ? thats ridiculous

And yes we did do fine last season but it wouldnt hurt to add a guy who can shoot the puck and a guy who wouldnt require a longterm deal , realistically guys like guerin are players holland will most likely be looking at cause it wouldnt require 4-5 yr deals such as smyth,drury and others would

Edited June 27, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat