Aaron Downey?

[Guest snowman89]

Can someone please explain to me why so many people on this site are in LOVE with Aaron Downey? He has never scored more than 1 goal a year, never played more than 43 games in a season. One year he did get 4 assists!!! WOW

And if your reason is because the wings need an enforcer, please done reply, they made it to the Western Conference Finals last year, and if you think Aaron Downey would have put them over the top, I dont want to hear from you.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Can someone please explain to me why so many people on this site are in LOVE with Aaron Downey? He has never scored more than 1 goal a year, never played more than 43 games in a season. One year he did get 4 assists!!! WOW

And if your reason is because the wings need an enforcer, please done reply, they made it to the Western Conference Finals last year, and if you think Aaron Downey would have put them over the top, I dont want to hear from you.

wow so the way you put this i wont be surprised if you don't have anyone saying anything in this thread. don't be such an ass right off the bat..work up to it so you get people in first.

[Guest snowman89]

I am not worried, people will still reply!

[Curban915 0]

Glad to know how you feel. But i think thats why Ken Holland is the Gm and not snowboy.

[Opie 308]

Because people want a fighter, for no other reason than wanting to watch hockey fights.

There are a few posters on here like OsGod that will tell you that is why he wants it.

Others say the team cannot win until there is a fighter on the roster. And if you say, how do you make up for the goals the guy Downey (or other fighter) replaces, the answer I got was you won't need to because the team will be so tough that it won't matter. (paraphrased)

In one thread every one is clambering for a Downey type guy and in the next they talk about how this team doesn't have enough scoring.

Curban95,

If you have noticed the teams Holland has iced, his theory is not that different from Snowboy's.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Because it's not always about scoring. Certain players aren't meant to score, and that doesn't make them useless. Aaron chips in other ways, and on top of that sticks up for his teammates, and is pretty darn physical. That is what the Wings need. Simple as that.

[jerm8352 3]

Because people want a fighter, for no other reason than wanting to watch hockey fights.

There are a few posters on here like OsGod that will tell you that is why he wants it.

Others say the team cannot win until there is a fighter on the roster. And if you say, how do you make up for the goals the guy Downey (or other fighter) replaces, the answer I got was you won't need to because the team will be so tough that it won't matter. (paraphrased)

In one thread every one is clambering for a Downey type guy and in the next they talk about how this team doesn't have enough scoring.

Curban95,

If you have noticed the teams Holland has iced, his theory is not that different from Snowboy's.

and how has that theory worked? With playoff disappointment every year. Would Downey have gotten us into the Finals last year. No way, but having someone like Downey that will fight will help this team. Is it gonna win them the Cup, no, but it will help.

Edited September 19, 2007 by jerm8352

[Opie 308]

and how has that theory worked? With playoff disappointment every year. Would Downey have gotten us into the Finals last year. No way, but having someone like Downey that will fight will help this team. Is it gonna win them the Cup, no, but it will help.

Question one: If it won't help them win the cup, what else is there? I mean if winning the cup is not the ultimate goal then why would you have an issue with the team as it is, why add a fighter just to be the same team as last year or worse. Isn't the goal to put the team on the ice that gives you the best shot at the cup?

Question 2:

So you would rather have a team like Nas, Phi, or others that have a tougher team but their success has more ups and downs than a yo-yo on a roller coaster?

I myself would prefer to have a team that consistently is tops in the league and has an innate ability to ice a winner every year.

This team is tougher than it has been in the past, and it will not end up like Buffalo, one great year and then the talent is depleted.

Ask a Philly fan if they would rather have a winner for over a decade (included is 3 cups) or a team that disappoints them so often they can set their watches by it.

So lets say Downey makes this team, who's place does he take?

Lets say he replaces Huds, (babs apparent whipping boy) that means you have to find a way to make up for his points last year, as well as trying to fill in for the loss of Lang and Schneider. Now Ralf will probably fill in for Schneider (if not more), but this team is severely lacking in the top 6 category. Adding a fighter right now helps that how. And again I ask isn't the point to win the cup, which would mean you would want to get better than last year, corrct?

Having a guy like Downey around can also help out when things get ruff; anyone else like the idea of Dats, & Hank fighting their own battles?...Anyone remember our boys having their a$$e$ kicked by 1 of the worst teams aka the Philadelphia Flyers not only on the ice, but scoreboard as well?

Guys like Downey are needed on every team so the skill guys can do their thing.

...and I like a fight every now, & again as well

I think you and I have had this conversation before but it may not have been you.

What happened to Philly last year?

Was that the only team to whip Det on the scoreboard last year?

Did the other teams that beat up Det on the scoreboard also beat them up?

Teams get the crap kicked out of them physically and on the scoreboard many times a year. One game can not be used to evaluate whether the team was a success or not,just like it can't be used to evaluate the needs of a team.

[Curban915 0]

You know whats funny is how many times people say bring mac back well downey is atleast able to still do what mac cant do. Mac had a role in 97 and he played it good. Downey maybe one of thoes shock type players. If he has a good pre season and is really worth the spot then sign him if he is not then move on.

[Guest snowman89]

and how has that theory worked? With playoff disappointment every year. Would Downey have gotten us into the Finals last year. No way, but having someone like Downey that will fight will help this team. Is it gonna win them the Cup, no, but it will help.

I am confused? "Is it gonna win them the Cup, no"...... SO WHAT IS THE POINT? Isn't that the goal?

Plus I am just as much of a basketcase as the next every year when the Wings get bounced from the playoffs? But the notion that there is constant disappointment, with the Wings EVERY year? How about you guy try living in Chicago, Columbus, take your pick of pretty much any other team in the NHL outside of New Jersey, the Wings have had more success than everyone. Then we will chat about constant disappointment.

[eva unit zero 271]

Having a guy like Downey around can also help out when things get ruff; anyone else like the idea of Dats, & Hank fighting their own battles?...Anyone remember our boys having their a$$e$ kicked by 1 of the worst teams aka the Philadelphia Flyers not only on the ice, but scoreboard as well?

Guys like Downey are needed on every team so the skill guys can do their thing.

Downey would have zero bearing on Hank and Dats unless he was playing with them. Enforcers do not serve as deterrents unless they are feared fighters and are likely to be on the ce at the same time as the guys they are protecting...neither of which is true about Downey on the Wings. Nobody will be deterred if there is only a slim chance they would even be on the ice against the fighter, and/or if that fighter is not someone they would be afraid of facing.

...and I like a fight every now, & again as well

I believe this is the primary reason behind everyone who complains about no enforcer. The 'fighting' poll is proof enough that a majority of the 'get an enforcer' crowd feels this way because they want fighting and not because it would help the team more than a defensive specialist or a secondary scorer.

[Curban915 0]

you know what makes me lmao more is that everyone says we need to add grit grit grit. And here it is and everyone is bitching about it. No one player is the reason a team wins the cup but more a group of people that help win the cup.

[Guest snowman89]

You know whats funny is how many times people say bring mac back well downey is atleast able to still do what mac cant do. Mac had a role in 97 and he played it good. Downey maybe one of thoes shock type players. If he has a good pre season and is really worth the spot then sign him if he is not then move on.

MAC scored alot of goals, and just not in 97, i do recall a certain hat trick in 2001 also, to compare MacCarty to Downey is completely absurd. Downey has done nothing to date to indicate to be of value.

I dont have a problem with them signing him and bringing him in, maybe he could become a contributer look at Cleary's improvement since he arrived, I am not arguing with Holland, maybe he has a reason to believe he could improve, my issue has been with everybody else, they have been falling over them selves hoping he makes the team, I am questioning what they think he is going to bring.

My guess and I could be wrong is that Holland brought him in to scare some of the guys on the fringe, to get them to play better,

[Curban915 0]

I can see that i dont care if he makes the team one way or another i just think the guy could add something to this team. I know Mac and Downey are in differnt leagues but still they are they same style player. I dont know Downey past very well but what teams has he played on? Maybe a team like DET makes him a better all around player.

[Izzy24 44]

He would bring energy to the lineup, much like Daniel Cleary.

[Curban915 0]

Energy is correct and one guy flying around making the other teams player fly in the other direction means...... Or other player play with a little more jump. I would really like to see the wings get a guy like Colby Armstrong.

[Guest snowman89]

you know what makes me lmao more is that everyone says we need to add grit grit grit. And here it is and everyone is bitching about it. No one player is the reason a team wins the cup but more a group of people that help win the cup.

Not everyone is bitching about it, I think they are plenty gritty, San Jose was supposed to be to gritty for the Wings to handle, they did, Anaheim was not supremely gritty either, they were HUGE! but not that gritty, with injuries and some poor plays by a few players the Wings lost, but they were playing with them well also.

I think Franzen, Cleary, Maltby, Drake, Draper, Grigorenko(if he plays like advertised), chelios, etc, are fine players for being gritty.

[Opie 308]

The misconception that a guy like Downey will stop Tootoo or Pronger is very, very off base whether you, or anyone else here thinks otherwise.

Guys like that do that s*** regardless of who is on the ice. They are who they are, having Chris Simon running around with a stick that says "your face here" will not stop Tootoo, Boogard or Janssen from taking a run at Dats or Z.

They will do it regardless of what they think may happen, because they are not scared of a fight. Why would the threat of a fight do anything to stop Boogard? Having a fighter is not a deterrent to guys like this. Did having a fighter deter Lemieux from trying to turn Drapers face into ground chuck?

Downey and Mac are not the same type of player, McCarty was a better skater, better shooter, however they both were willing to fight. So was Shanny at one point in time does that mean Downey and Shanny are the same type of player, no. And neither are Shanny and Mac. There are varying degrees of fighters, those who can score, those who score and can fight, and fighters who are thugs and once and a while they get a deflection that ends up in the net.

F.Michael, don't players also play with more swagger and energy when on a line with Dats or Z type of players?

Johnathon Cheecho seems to have a lot more energy with Thornton on his line than he would if Downey were there. (horrible exaggeration, I know but you get my point)

[Guest snowman89]

He would bring energy to the lineup, much like Daniel Cleary.

I think the problem here is that Energy guy and Enforcer are two completely different things, what fighters can you think of and maybe I am missing someone, that run around hitting people, they are usually big lumbering guys. If Downey is more an Energy guy than a fighter then I will be more in favor. I have not seen him play and I doubt many people on LGW.com have.

Outside of Avery if you could consider him that, he can score also....

The misconception that a guy like Downey will stop Tootoo or Pronger is very, very off base whether you, or anyone else here thinks otherwise.

Guys like that do that s*** regardless of who is on the ice. They are who they are, having Chris Simon running around with a stick that says "your face here" will not stop Tootoo, Boogard or Janssen from taking a run at Dats or Z.

They will do it regardless of what they think may happen, because they are not scared of a fight. Why would the threat of a fight do anything to stop Boogard? Having a fighter is not a deterrent to guys like this. Did having a fighter deter Lemieux from trying to turn Drapers face into ground chuck?

Downey and Mac are not the same type of player, McCarty was a better skater, better shooter, however they both were willing to fight. So was Shanny at one point in time does that mean Downey and Shanny are the same type of player, no. And neither are Shanny and Mac. There are varying degrees of fighters, those who can score, those who score and can fight, and fighters who are thugs and once and a while they get a deflection that ends up in the net.

F.Michael, don't players also play with more swagger and energy when on a line with Dats or Z type of players?

Johnathon Cheecho seems to have a lot more energy with Thornton on his line than he would if Downey were there. (horrible exaggeration, I know but you get my point)

[Opie 308]

Energy is correct and one guy flying around making the other teams player fly in the other direction means...... Or other player play with a little more jump. I would really like to see the wings get a guy like Colby Armstrong.

Or said player is flying around trying to make hits and one of the following happens:

1. He crushes a guy the crowd cheers, Dats picks up the puck and dekes out a goalie and scores an unbelievable goal.

2. He whiffs and now there is a forward out of position and an odd man rush ensues that leads to a goal.

3. He crushes a guy and ends up in the box and a pp goal is scored.

4. He crushes a guy and in the process screws he knee all up (ala Pronger going over Yzerman) and now that player is no longer available.

Lets say Downey takes a run at Pronger because Pronger took one at Z. Do you really think that the Ducks would leave it at that.

Oh, well he took out one of our captains and best players, there is no need to retalliate and take out on of theirs.

People on here act like the wings run away from physical teams and can't beat them, when that is not true at all. A fighter doesn't win the series against the Ducks, 1 or 2 5-3 goals would have!

[VM1138 1,921]

I think the problem here is that Energy guy and Enforcer are two completely different things, what fighters can you think of and maybe I am missing someone, that run around hitting people, they are usually big lumbering guys. If Downey is more an Energy guy than a fighter then I will be more in favor. I have not seen him play and I doubt many people on LGW.com have.

Outside of Avery if you could consider him that, he can score also....

Sure people think he'll fight and be aggressive, but in reality, it has everything to do with his performance NOW.

Past numbers don't matter. Most people here don't even know anything about his past. What they see is him working his ass off in the preseason and training camp and making a difference. Time again it' sbeen shown that if you need a career boost you come to Detroit. In most players, the Wings bring out the best in them.

[Guest snowman89]

Sure people think he'll fight and be aggressive, but in reality, it has everything to do with his performance NOW.

Past numbers don't matter. Most people here don't even know anything about his past. What they see is him working his ass off in the preseason and training camp and making a difference. Time again it' sbeen shown that if you need a career boost you come to Detroit. In most players, the Wings bring out the best in them.

I agree, but 90% of the conversation about Downey has been, ooh finally an enforcer... That is what I have been having issues with.

[Guest snowman89]

LOL

[Dominator2005 558]

Can someone please explain to me why so many people on this site are in LOVE with Aaron Downey? He has never scored more than 1 goal a year, never played more than 43 games in a season. One year he did get 4 assists!!! WOW

And if your reason is because the wings need an enforcer, please done reply, they made it to the Western Conference Finals last year, and if you think Aaron Downey would have put them over the top, I dont want to hear from you.

...and we lost to the team that was more physical than us, they put on the ice players like May, Thornton, Moen... and with all skills and finesse we lost... I'm not in love with Downey (watch him last season with Montreal - he was awful) but he's only player (that we can except) who will drop his gloves (Lilja can also drop his gloves and that's it) and "protect" his teammates. Do we need true enforcer - NO - do we need someone cheap who can play regular shifts, score some goals, be agressive but smart (no stupid penalties), fight. ... than the answer is YES - but there is no players like that (available). I still remember Rob Niedermayer's goal when he pushed Hasek in the net with the puck on top of him... Still remember Johnson when he crushed Hasek two times (in the same game)... still remember Pronger hit on Homer, Phaneuf going after Zetterberg, assholes like Perry and Getzlaf going after Datsyuk and Zetterberg... That's why we need someone to protect all those players...

[Opie 308]

I guess it depends on the tempo of the game...If it's "clean" - then yeah playing with Dats/Hank would be great...However if there's a looming threat of getting an elbow to the jaw, & a 3rd degree concussion to follow - then I'd rather be on the ice with guys whom can hold their own in a donybrook which neither of the forementioned players are capable of, & are better off sitting on the bench.

Bad analogy here, & I've said it 100 times already; having a guy like Downey is like having a firearm; always nice to have 1 around even if ya don't need it - rather than having a need for 1 but it's not available for use.

Elbows like that do not happen every game they are a once and a while thing it is not like every game the wings play there is a player out there running around looking to destroy D and Z, this isn't Slap Shot. So how do you know when to put Downey in the line up, you can't wait until the second period to name your line up. You have to ice a team every game that gives you the best shot to win.

Do you know that more people in the US are killed with their own hand gun than are with that of an assailant?

The Wings lost to the Ducks due to pp ineffectiveness and the inability to score, not because they were beat up. If that was the case the team never would have made it out of the first round against Calgary, which I would argue was the toughest most physical team the wings faced in the post season.

I still remember Rob Niedermayer's goal when he pushed Hasek in the net with the puck on top of him... Still remember Johnson when he crushed Hasek two times (in the same game)... still remember Pronger hit on Homer, Phaneuf going after Zetterberg, assholes like Perry and Getzlaf going after Datsyuk and Zetterberg... That's why we need someone to protect all those players...

And I remember Cleary absolutely destroying Phaneuf which led to a goal, but you conveniently left that out to help your this team is weak argument!!!!!!!

And again I ask how on earth will a fight scare a fighter from taking a run at anyone????

Edited September 19, 2007 by Opie