20 games for Downie

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Every week in football there is at least one highlight of a guy getting crushed with a shoulder to the head , or a head to the chest type hit. It's definitely common practice in the NFL.

And if you can't get over people getting crushed and ending up hurt, go watch some euro hockey or figure skating. ( saying this cuz its as retarded and pointless as your ufc comment).

Show me all of these blows to the head that the NFL allows each week. I hate newbies. Full of s*** and zero substance.

PS: Hey braniac, what the f*** does a head to the chest type hit have anything to do with what we're talking about? I specifically stated head to head aka helmet to helmet blows or any other part of the body being used to lay out another player by making contact with the head first. You can't even grasp the concept here. How am I supposed to buy any of the s*** you're selling?

Edited October 1, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted

[toby91_ca 620]

A NHL rink is only 200 feet long. So by no means did he line it up from 150 feet away.

He was looking for the hit from about his own blueline, so I guess I exaggerated, more like 125 feet then.

Every week in football there is at least one highlight of a guy getting crushed with a shoulder to the head , or a head to the chest type hit. It's definitely common practice in the NFL.

Firstly, can I see some videos of these shoulder to head hits in the NFL, that is normal and doesn't result in disiplinary action? Since it happens weekly, there must be lots of video. If you don't come up with anything, I'll just assuming you were making up this garbarge.

Secondly, if hockey players want to go around hiting guys in the chest with their heads, is anyone going to have too much of a problem with it? They'll probably hurt themselves more than anything. Also, what does leading with your head into someone's chest have to do with anything?

Thirdly, the difference between the head protection worn in the NFL and that worn in the NHL is vast.

[superstarsingh 23]

Should have given him 30.

[Skiing - Puck 0]

Should have given him 30.

Hey why stop at thirty? I think he sould be banned from ever skating in another pro or junior level game. Send him to the neather regions of some Quebec beer league. By the way if you hadn't figured it out I am being a dick and being extremley sarcastic.

[Kutcher 0]

Show me all of these blows to the head that the NFL allows each week. I hate newbies. Full of s*** and zero substance.

PS: Hey braniac, what the f*** does a head to the chest type hit have anything to do with what we're talking about? I specifically stated head to head aka helmet to helmet blows or any other part of the body being used to lay out another player by making contact with the head first. You can't even grasp the concept here. How am I supposed to buy any of the s*** you're selling?

NFL hits

There you go. There's lots of head shots there.

So there's the s***. Now grab a spoon and eat it .

[auxlepli 17]

That NFL YouTube clip is down.

Anyway you can't compare the NFL to the NHL.

1 - Different types of helmets

2 - Hockey is much faster and Force = mass times acceleration

According to this article http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.ht...bfc&k=17532

most players are united against Downie so hopefully his grievance withe NHLPA won't get very far.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

NFL hits

There you go. There's lots of head shots there.

So there's the s***. Now grab a spoon and eat it .

Nice try rookie.

Strike One: The link you gave us is dead. And since this happens so frequently in the NFL as you claim, find us clips from this past week or 2 weeks ago.

Strike Two: You didn't address the ridiculous comment you made about head to chest hits. Again, WTF are you talking about.

Strike Three: This is for you just sucking at this in general. You stink. You belong in the minor leagues of online forum debate. You're atrocious. You give forum flaming a bad name cause you stink so badly at it. Fuggin' rookie.

[toby91_ca 620]

NFL hits

There you go. There's lots of head shots there.

So there's the s***. Now grab a spoon and eat it .

Assuming you can actually get a working video, will it show the results of the hits (any fines, etc.?)

FYI:

In 1996 the NFL determined that all hits with the helmet or to the head by a defender would be flagged as a personal foul and was subject to a fine.

[Kutcher 0]

Here's one that should work, not sure why the other one doesn't for you. nfl hits

not all of these are headshots, but alot of the are, it has happened alot in the nfl. Even though they have rules against it.

they allow it cause people like them and they are part of the game. As with the downie hit, its just part of the game. It's sad ppl get hurt but thats the game, if you dont like the risk then dont play.

[toby91_ca 620]

Here's one that should work, not sure why the other one doesn't for you. nfl hits

not all of these are headshots, but alot of the are, it has happened alot in the nfl. Even though they have rules against it.

they allow it cause people like them and they are part of the game. As with the downie hit, its just part of the game. It's sad ppl get hurt but thats the game, if you dont like the risk then dont play.

You are starting to sound idiotic now. From all the player reaction I have heard on the Downie hit, none of them think it is simply a part of the game or shoud be part of the game, they are completely against it, why would you think it is part of the game if those actually playing it do not?? Are you Steve Downie?

Could you have found a more useless video to back up your claims? 75% of those hits were shoulder to chest or shoulder to shoulder. I agree that there were some headshots in there, which the NFL has tried to avoid and has done a great job of that over the past 5-10 years...which is why you probably didn't see anything from the past 5-10 years in that video. Some of the stuff looked like it was from 50 years ago.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Here's one that should work, not sure why the other one doesn't for you. nfl hits

not all of these are headshots, but alot of the are, it has happened alot in the nfl. Even though they have rules against it.

they allow it cause people like them and they are part of the game. As with the downie hit, its just part of the game. It's sad ppl get hurt but thats the game, if you dont like the risk then dont play.

It's part of the game? OMG, this is spiraling out into absurdity now. Hooking is part of the game. Cross checks are part of the game. These things happen and for the most part are penalized like offsides or holding or false start. Getting suspended means you did something that isn't part of the game. Hence, why they're not letting you play for whatever specified amount of time. Downie is now going to miss 20 games. So you are saying he's missing 20 games for doing something that is "part of the game". I guess bashing people over the head with a stick is part of the game too.

Give up already.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Even Van Damme likes this ruling!

That's the ticket. Love seeing my avatar in action! Go rent Breakin (one of the worst 80's movies ever).

So hopefully this suspension means Pronger will get handed a an actual punishment the next time he tries to kill somebody with an elbow (and you know Pronger will).

[Kutcher 0]

It's part of the game? OMG, this is spiraling out into absurdity now. Hooking is part of the game. Cross checks are part of the game. These things happen and for the most part are penalized like offsides or holding or false start. Getting suspended means you did something that isn't part of the game. Hence, why they're not letting you play for whatever specified amount of time. Downie is now going to miss 20 games. So you are saying he's missing 20 games for doing something that is "part of the game". I guess bashing people over the head with a stick is part of the game too.

Give up already.

You just made your self sound like a complete tool. How is cross checking anymore a part of the game as a body check? So he left his feet, are you saying that if he kept his feet on the ground and crossed checked Mcammond as hard as he could that it wouldn't warrant a suspension? Thats retarted . All I am trying to state is that 20 games is retarded for something that is always going to happen when hitting is allowed in hockey. I agree a suspension was warranted , maybe 5 games at the most, why not let the league police its self like in the past , like Lids has stated. He would get his lumps , learn his lesson and they would move on, that system works better than 20 games for this guy, 1 games for this guy.

[Opie 308]

You just made your self sound like a complete tool. How is cross checking anymore a part of the game as a body check? So he left his feet, are you saying that if he kept his feet on the ground and crossed checked Mcammond as hard as he could that it wouldn't warrant a suspension? Thats retarted . All I am trying to state is that 20 games is retarded for something that is always going to happen when hitting is allowed in hockey. I agree a suspension was warranted , maybe 5 games at the most, why not let the league police its self like in the past , like Lids has stated. He would get his lumps , learn his lesson and they would move on, that system works better than 20 games for this guy, 1 games for this guy.

Retarted= Having been tarted one more time.

"This pastry is not tart enough!"

"Have you tried having it retarted?"

Sorry I couldn't resist!!!

Edited October 1, 2007 by Opie

[toby91_ca 620]

why not let the league police its self like in the past

The answer is quite simple....because someone is going to end up getting killed...literally. Players are much larger now, move much faster, with more damaging equipment being worn. It is only a matter of time before someone ends up getting killed unless the NHL seriously cracks down on this type of thing, which is hopefully what they are trying to do now.

Allowing players to police themselves could help as well, but the NHL needs to take a firm stance on this sort of thing and make it absolutely clear that they are trying to rid the game of these types of hits. From what I have come to understand, pretty much all the players are on board with that.

Guys like Pronger play with a bit of an edge and get their elbows up everyone now and then. Being as tall as Pronger is, the elbows will tend to connect high on guys...like it or not, height is a factor. That said, Pronger is guilty of some dirtly play, no doubt, but I think if you compare some of Pronger's recent incidents, they haven't been as dangerous as the Downie hit. One was an elbow while he was bascially standing still or skating backwards. This will do some damage for sure, but not as much as if he rushed off like a madman and at full skating speed tried to drill someone with all his force. While I think Pronger deserves to be suspended in those situations, I don't think we are talking about 20 games like Downie's incident, but I'm sure if Pronger does something like that and only gets a few games, people will pass it off as the NHL being light and not following through when it matters. We'll see, it really depends on the specifics of the incident. I'll hold my judgement until one such incident occurs this year (hopefully there won't be any).

Think about this for a minute.....what do you think the results would have been if you replaced 5'10" Downie with a guy like Eric Lindros of old. McAmmond might not be conscious right now in that scenario.

Oh, one last point, I have to imagine that the only people that have the point of view that this sort of thing isn't a big problem and something that needs to be addressed is either moronic, or has no personal connections to any of the players in the game.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

You just made your self sound like a complete tool. How is cross checking anymore a part of the game as a body check? So he left his feet, are you saying that if he kept his feet on the ground and crossed checked Mcammond as hard as he could that it wouldn't warrant a suspension? Thats retarted . All I am trying to state is that 20 games is retarded for something that is always going to happen when hitting is allowed in hockey. I agree a suspension was warranted , maybe 5 games at the most, why not let the league police its self like in the past , like Lids has stated. He would get his lumps , learn his lesson and they would move on, that system works better than 20 games for this guy, 1 games for this guy.

Obviously you have no sense of relativity. If you were bright enough to formulate a rational thought or two you would realize i'm talking about the bazillion cross checks that take place in front of the net and all over the ice that are usually dealt with via the 2 minute minor. If you had any brains at all you would have been able to decipher that point. Hooking, cross checking, etc... typically two-minute penalties.

The fact that I have to explain this to you furthers my conclusion that you are just terrible at this stuff. You know, formulating rational ideas that make sense and actually fit with the subject at hand.

You're weak. You need work Grigs. Back to the minors with you. Get to gettin' already! You stink!

[Turkey 0]

Oh, one last point, I have to imagine that the only people that have the point of view that this sort of thing isn't a big problem and something that needs to be addressed is either moronic, or has no personal connections to any of the players in the game.

Or they enjoy watching brutality. I'd rather watch athletes play a sport at a high level than watch meatheads try to maim each other. Downie is a thug. He has no concern for the well-being of other players. Someone who enjoys watching him lay people out like this clearly shares that lake of regard for other people. I understand that some people think it's fun to watch people get seriously hurt. I don't share that opinion.

Even more importantly, until hockey manages to become a responsible sport where nonsense like this is very, very rare, it will never be anymore than a second teir sport in the USA. That's my opinion.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Retarted= Having been tarted one more time.

"This pastry is not tart enough!"

"Have you tried having it retarted?"

Sorry I couldn't resist!!!

Nice. !!!!

The answer is quite simple....because someone is going to end up getting killed...literally. Players are much larger now, move much faster, with more damaging equipment being worn. It is only a matter of time before someone ends up getting killed unless the NHL seriously cracks down on this type of thing, which is hopefully what they are trying to do now.

Allowing players to police themselves could help as well, but the NHL needs to take a firm stance on this sort of thing and make it absolutely clear that they are trying to rid the game of these types of hits. From what I have come to understand, pretty much all the players are on board with that.

Guys like Pronger play with a bit of an edge and get their elbows up everyone now and then. Being as tall as Pronger is, the elbows will tend to connect high on guys...like it or not, height is a factor. That said, Pronger is guilty of some dirtly play, no doubt, but I think if you compare some of Pronger's recent incidents, they haven't been as dangerous as the Downie hit. One was an elbow while he was bascially standing still or skating backwards. This will do some damage for sure, but not as much as if he rushed off like a madman and at full skating speed tried to drill someone with all his force. While I think Pronger deserves to be suspended in those situations, I don't think we are talking about 20 games like Downie's incident, but I'm sure if Pronger does something like that and only gets a few games, people will pass it off as the NHL being light and not following through when it matters. We'll see, it really depends on the specifics of the incident. I'll hold my judgement until one such incident occurs this year (hopefully there won't be any).

Think about this for a minute.....what do you think the results would have been if you replaced 5'10" Downie with a guy like Eric Lindros of old. McAmmond might not be conscious right now in that scenario.

Oh, one last point, I have to imagine that the only people that have the point of view that this sort of thing isn't a big problem and something that needs to be addressed is either moronic, or has no personal connections to any of the players in the game.

Great stuff Toby.

Here's a thought. What happens when somebody gets killed?

It'll be plastered all over the tube and the NHL will get a black eye that'll make Bertuzzi/Moore look like nothing.

And how are you going to police that after somebody has been killed? Let's say a Habs player dies from a Bruins player checking him like Downie did. What are the Habs going to do, go try to kill somebody on the Bruins?

kutcher is full of bravado and bulls***. He wouldn't know a flying elbow from a flying squirrel. I'll bet you a few stiff whacks from my Sher-wood would have him crying like a little girl (no offense ladies).

You here that Kutcher! I'm coming for you and my Sher-Wood is hungry. CHOMP!

[Turkey 0]

Things can get heated in a debate like this but let's stay away from personal attacks and language that doesn't meet the forum's standards. It would be a shame to have to kill this thread. I think it's a debate that should be had. Not singling anybody out here.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Things can get heated in a debate like this but let's stay away from personal attacks and language that doesn't meet the forum's standards. It would be a shame to have to kill this thread. I think it's a debate that should be had. Not singling anybody out here.

I will do my part to clean it up here. I guess the new guy just rubbed me the wrong way (not that way!)

Anybody remember the story of Mark Messier in preseason jumping off the bench and cross checking a rookie in the face who was going a little too hard at Brian Leetch or something? Anyway, Mess knocked out like 3 of the guy's teeth and the poor kid was a Rangers prospect. Oh well, I guess I just wanted some teeth today.

[mortsey03 0]

So he got 20 games. The Hockey News reported that the Flyers are going to send him down to AHL and call him up on days he doesn’t have AHL games but they have games to get the suspension out of the way without taking him out of the lineup. From the history of the stuff he’s pulled in the past (OHL), this probably won’t teach him anything.

Here he is in action.

[Hank 0]

Kutcher, another huge difference between football and hockey head-hits is that:

1. Football player helmets are a lot more protective than hockey helmets.

2. Hockey players are moving at almost 3 times the speed football players are.

3. Football players don't have to worry about unmoveable endboards to get slammed into.

Shoulder to head hitting needs to be taken out of the game. However, there is still some room for it. If Briere is skating with his head down and Chara puts his shoulder into him, there's a great chance that his shoulder will hit his head because of the size difference. He shouldn't be penalized for that.

But the hits similar to Downie's where they propel themselves upwards so their shoulders hit them in the head, needs to end. Besides the thought of someone getting killed one day a lot of these players are dealing with past concussions years after they occur.

Geoff Courtnall had a doctors test in 2005 for concussion symptoms. He had been retired for 5 years.

I love physical hockey. But I love clean physical hockey. Not some of the garbage we've seen lately.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Kutcher, another huge difference between football and hockey head-hits is that:

1. Football player helmets are a lot more protective than hockey helmets.

2. Hockey players are moving at almost 3 times the speed football players are.

3. Football players don't have to worry about unmoveable endboards to get slammed into.

Shoulder to head hitting needs to be taken out of the game. However, there is still some room for it. If Briere is skating with his head down and Chara puts his shoulder into him, there's a great chance that his shoulder will hit his head because of the size difference. He shouldn't be penalized for that.

But the hits similar to Downie's where they propel themselves upwards so their shoulders hit them in the head, needs to end. Besides the thought of someone getting killed one day a lot of these players are dealing with past concussions years after they occur.

Geoff Courtnall had a doctors test in 2005 for concussion symptoms. He had been retired for 5 years.

I love physical hockey. But I love clean physical hockey. Not some of the garbage we've seen lately.

You can't say some hits to the head are alright, yet say some need to be eliminated. Either they are in or they are out. There is no room for gray areas.

[toby91_ca 620]

So he got 20 games. The Hockey News reported that the Flyers are going to send him down to AHL and call him up on days he doesn’t have AHL games but they have games to get the suspension out of the way without taking him out of the lineup. From the history of the stuff he’s pulled in the past (OHL), this probably won’t teach him anything.

Here he is in action.

I think you are confused. The earliest Downie could possibly play for the Flyers would be there 21st game of the season.

They are currently trying to have him play in the AHL, which he normally would not be able to do as the NHL normally honours NHL suspensions. If he were to be allowed to play in the AHL, they would call him up periodically so he is on the NHL roster and gets credit for missed games, therefore, ending the suspension as quickly as possible.

The way I understand it, his suspension does not start ticking down until he is forced to miss games, so if he is playing in the AHL, the games don't tick away until he is called up to the NHL and starts to miss games.

Theorectically, he could not be eligible to play in the NHL for the whole year.

You can't say some hits to the head are alright, yet say some need to be eliminated. Either they are in or they are out. There is no room for gray areas.

Not really. Generally, right now, they are cracking down on jumping into a hit, they need to deal with that agressively first and that's is part of what this suspension is about.

The next step is to think about how to reduce the other head shots that occur in a normal/legal body check (mostly when guys are crouching with their head down. This one is probably going to have to be dealt with using a lot of judgement, which isn't ideal, but I don't see any other way to deal with it without eliminating hitting all together.

If you think about it, how does a guy like Chara throw a shoulder into someone without catching their head? He would have to get himself in an awkward croached position to do so.

[Turkey 0]

Actually, there's no confusion assuming the AHL allows him to play. They can call him up on Flyers game days when there isn't an AHL game. He's calle up but doesn't play, it counts as a game missed. They do that 20 times and the suspension is over.

The question is whether the AHL will also suspend him. They can do so if they want. They can also lengthen or shorten the suspension, if they want.