Fighting Haters

[therock48880 14]

Here's where having a Downey at the end of the bench could be helpful. There was a power play (I don't remember which one) where I watched Pronger cross-check Holmstrom at LEAST 5 times in front of the net. Over and over he kept nailing him. And then there was the questionable "no call" when he boarded Fillpula. Wouldn't be nice to send someone on the ice who's whole goal was to have a chat with Pronger? Maybe not even fight him, but at least let him know that the cheapshots need to stop. I don't know. I just get tired of watching teams take runs at the goalie, beat on Holmstrom mercilessly, board people, slash people, etc. with no fear of retaliation. Would that have made it easier for the Wings to win the game? Who knows. But it would have been nice for someone to talk to the idiot and threaten him and have the threat carry some meaning. In my opinion, of course.

[Heaton 1]

Joey Kocur scored the 1st goal of the Cup Finals in 1997, & took a regular shift throughout the series.

If George Parros could play hockey like Joey Kocur, he'd play every night, but George Parros isn't Joey Kocur.

[therock48880 14]

One example does not prove a point. The game has evolved very much since then. Big tough slow guys have a minimal impact anymore.

The Ducks are loaded with big, tough, slow guys. So are the sharks, for that matter.

If George Parros could play hockey like Joey Kocur, he'd play every night, but George Parros isn't Joey Kocur.

Good point. People forget the Kocur and Probert were not liabilities on the ice when they weren't fighting.

[joey_corleone 0]

I don't know, but I was laughing and smiling all night after seeing Dallas Drake drop the gloves. So classic. Attention NHL: If everybody hates fighting so much, why is the entire crowd cheering and on their feet ever time a fight breaks out? Credit to Don Cherry

- Joey

[Hank 0]

As of the past several years - yes "goons" have limited value once the playoffs begin...A few other noteworthy "goons" that come to mind that played on a regular basis throughout the playoffs (within the past 10 years) were Domi, McSorley, Webb, McKay, & Peluso...As we all know most of the tuff guys out there are of more value throughout the regular season; only a handful @ best will see any ice time in todays post season games.

For me it still does not diminish their value, & what they can bring to the team.

I don't think anyone says they have no value to their team.

I'm just one of the few that doesn't tie victories so closely to how many goons your team has.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

The Ducks are loaded with big, tough, slow guys. So are the sharks, for that matter.

Ummm what? They are definately 2 big teams but who is slow? Thornton? Bernier? Michalek? Clowe?Rissmiller?Mclaren? San jose is big, skilled and fast. The only guys there that would fit that mold are Davison and Murray and both have a very minimal impact.

Anaheim you say? Who exactly is big and slow? Big yes, slow? Hardly. They have some tough guys but they are not complete liabilities. There's a reason the didn't play when it counted.

[therock48880 14]

Ummm what? They are definately 2 big teams but who is slow? Thornton? Bernier? Michalek? Clowe?Rissmiller?Mclaren? San jose is big, skilled and fast. The only guys there that would fit that mold are Davison and Murray and both have a very minimal impact.

Anaheim you say? Who exactly is big and slow? Big yes, slow? Hardly. They have some tough guys but they are not complete liabilities. There's a reason the didn't play when it counted.

Ok, maybe "slow" wasn't the right word. I should have used "not fast". I can make quite a list from both teams of big guys who aren't fast skaters. But you are right, none of them are Luc Robataile slow.

Ummm what? They are definately 2 big teams but who is slow? Thornton? Bernier? Michalek? Clowe?Rissmiller?Mclaren? San jose is big, skilled and fast. The only guys there that would fit that mold are Davison and Murray and both have a very minimal impact.

Anaheim you say? Who exactly is big and slow? Big yes, slow? Hardly. They have some tough guys but they are not complete liabilities. There's a reason the didn't play when it counted.

Anaheim has a slower team than San Jose, in my opinion. That's what's scary about the Sharks. If they could somehow develop the mental toughness that they lacked against the Wings, they'd be virtually unstoppable.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Ok, maybe "slow" wasn't the right word. I should have used "not fast". I can make quite a list from both teams of big guys who aren't fast skaters. But you are right, none of them are Luc Robataile slow.

Anaheim has a slower team than San Jose, in my opinion. That's what's scary about the Sharks. If they could somehow develop the mental toughness that they lacked against the Wings, they'd be virtually unstoppable.

Yeah i agree Anaheim is slower than San Jose. I also agree San jose is close to being a powerhouse. They just need to solidify their defence.

edit. Scary thing is how much cap room San Jose still has left and the number of strong young players they have available to deal for a marquee defenceman.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Son of a Wing

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Maybe last year, but in the same preseason game Cleary stuck up for his teammate and dropped the gloves and Grigs stuck up for himself and dropped the gloves. I love hockey fights, think it's awesome when guys square up and drop em. I think alot of people including myself like having a guy around who WILL drop the gloves, it's just when that's all he can do that bothers me. Maybe if it were back in the day and the Wings had 3 full lines that could be any teams top 1 and we had a Grimson I'd be cool with it. But now days every roster spot is just too important. Anyway I think this team is alot tougher all around than it gets credit for and they'll stick up for each other and themselves. If you ask me Franzen is a guy who should be getting in sparing time.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to waste a roster spot on a goon.

But it'd be great to have a few more guys who can play the game and will also drop the gloves when necessary, like the Wings used to have.

[Hank 0]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to waste a roster spot on a goon.

But it'd be great to have a few more guys who can play the game and will also drop the gloves when necessary, like the Wings used to have.

Well said; both of you.

That's why Gerard Gallant will always be my 2nd favourite Wing of all time. He could score, hit and fight. I'd love to have a guy like that on this team. But I guess every team would.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Hank

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I guarantee you that Anaheim's players didn't receive as many chepshots last year as we did, and that's because other teams knew that they had tough guys in the lineup to deal with such problems. Less cheapshots means less injuries, and less injuries means a greater likelihood of team success. As far as I see it, as long as the instigator rule is around, you need goons out there to deter players like Nieminen, Tootoo, and Pronger. And for those who are afraid of giving up roster spots, come on already. You make it sound like we have all-stars on every line for crying out loud. I assure you most Wings players would love to have a tough guy in there to watch their backs.

[Opie 308]

GMR I think you are misreading what we are saying, if the wings had a bunch or all stars on all lines we wouldn't care about giving a roster spot up to a goon. The fact that the wings do not have the 97-98 type roster is the reason why I would rather have Drake out there and then a player with a scoring touch as opposed to a straight goon.

We can agree though that the instigator rule is s*** and needs to go.

And the people you talk about delivering cheap shots, much like Downie, will do it no matter who is on the roster. The wings could have Rampage Jackson on skates and Pronger, Tootoo will still try their crap.

[esteef 2,679]

I guarantee you that Anaheim's players didn't receive as many chepshots last year as we did, and that's because other teams knew that they had tough guys in the lineup to deal with such problems. Less cheapshots means less injuries, and less injuries means a greater likelihood of team success...I assure you most Wings players would love to have a tough guy in there to watch their backs.

Agree. 'LESS' is the key word here. Just because there are guys out there that will still cheap shot no matter what (TooToo, etc) doesn't discredit the notion that having tough guys onboard will decrease the overall number of cheap shots a team will face.

Cheers!

esteef