MacInnis and Doug Wilson Hate Composite Sticks

[eva unit zero 271]

Just for those of you slamming MacInnis...he DID switch to a composite. But the he switched back because of the reasons he mentioned. It's called first hand experience.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The players mentioned in the article are more of an exception to the rule. Gretz had no problem using aluminum, graphite, wood, two piece, you name it.. he used it.

Like I stated before, Lemieux is really the only MAJOR star that never went away from wood.

The reason why most sticks break, as stated before is that they're too stiff for play. Why do players select an overly stiff stick? Because it produces a faster/harder slap shot. You're rarely going to see players that use 75-85 flex sticks breaking them, unless its a massive slash. When you have a player using a 120-130 flex shaft, its so brittle you could break it just flexing it against the ground.

Its all about finding an equal balance between shot speed and flex. Most people don't realize how much sticks will flex without breaking, more so then a wooden stick ever would..

Ovechkin, Jagr and Kovalchuk all use stick flexes between 90 and 102. Look how built they are, they get the most out of their sticks, with some breaks. Some players, with the same build use sticks that are in the 120-130 flex range. Its not a surprise that they snap like a twig.

You did see that part in the article where Gretzky himself said he thinks the composites should be banned, right?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The older composite sticks were good, I have a wooden one, but only because I play defence and new age composite sticks break way to easily.

I think it should be a choice, I would rather as a forward have the older composite sticks over wood. But I'd rather wood over these new garbage composite sticks.

[al48 1]

Point? It was good enough for Gretz, hell its still good enough for him. He uses TPS Responce one pieces for every Coyotes practice. Personally, I don't put much stock into anything Gretzky says anymore. When you can count the number of players in the league using wood on one hand then its obvious which the players favor.

This article doesn't benefit anything. Its a bunch of retired players, most of whom retired before aluminum shafts came into play, let alone composite. Its just another talking point for Don Cherry.

Goalies started wearing huge pads before Composites came into the picture and league has done hardly anything to curb that problem.

Whats the better adjustment? Switching 99% of the players equipment(which would never fly with the NHLPA) or reducing the size of goalie pads or making the nets larger.

Its hypocritical for a guy like Gretzky to denounce the same technology that he embraced for close to 10 years. Guys like Mickey Redmond or any player that retired before... 1990 really shouldn't have an opinion on the matter. 1975-90 had some of the worst goal tending ever. Now the tables have turned, goalies look like michelen men and they dominate games.

So, you're saying that players who retired before a certain point (1990 in this case) never played hockey again?

Edit:

Let me add to this. If anything, they should have more of an opinion on this compared to players who've been playing with nearly nothing but composites, because they're most likely to have tried both.

Edited November 16, 2007 by al48

[al48 1]

At the NHL level? After playing (presumably) 30-35 years with wooden sticks. Anyone that has made the switch from wood to comp knows that it takes some getting used to. You couldn't hand Ol Mickey Redmond a composite and expect him to perform the same way. You can't expect players, who used 3-4 lb 2x4s with a blade for their entire NHL careers to have a unbiased view of composite sticks.

If you haven't noticed, the elderly, in most walks of life, fear technological advances.

Haha...the elderly! I'm not even going to respond to that, because you're just gonna end up shoving your foot in your mouth if you want to debate it that way. I think you know where you're wrong there though, so I'll just let it be.

And, yes, some people do play competitive hockey after life in the NHL. Perhaps they even go on the ice and diddle around a little bit, if those darn, blasted kids aren't out there screwing around.

[al48 1]

You're not going to debate it because your argument doesn't hold water. Composites aren't a fringe piece of equipment like heated skate blades. 99.999999999% of the NHL uses them. If you can't see the hypocrisy in Wanye Gretzky wanting to ban composite sticks then maybe the age is getting to you.

The only two major stars that use wood in this league are Spezza and Statsny. Statsny is given, his dad probably holds the same resentment towards composite as Mickey Redmond.

Its great though, I love how people treat it like its an epidemic hampering the game. As if a stick is breaking during every shift, during every prime scoring opportunity,

I've never debated it one way or the other in this thread. The only position I've taken is that I'm surprised more defensive defenseman don't use wood sticks. Personally, I could care less if a guy felt most comfortable playing with a metal pushbroom handle with a fish tied to the end of it so long as he did it really well. I only care about what produces the best hockey. But, you can't take a position that these guys opinion doesn't matter. That's discounting a large portion of what makes up the hockey world.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

The whole point of the article apparently zipped right over your head like a puck zipping over the top of the goal from a composite stick.

The article was brought up because the ex players and coaches are saying they feel scoring is down and it is due partly because of the composites. So far, the only thing they have proven to do is make people shoot harder. They don't seem to improve accuracy, they make stickhandling harder and they make receiving a pass harder. Hence, when people can't control the puck as easily and pucks are bouncing off people's blades and they can't shoot the damn things accurately, less goals scored. SAVVY? About the only thing these sticks do is make the average shooter able to hit the 90+ mark on the radar gun.

And apparently the entire point of my post was missed by you. I don't give a s*** that scoring is down in the league, and I especially reject the idea that composite sticks= lower scoring in any case. There are many more factors that are contributing to lower scoring.

The question that I asked that you failed to address( although apparently you found time to flame me a bit), is why should the players not be able to use composite sticks?

Unless you can prove outright that composite sticks= lower scoring then you have no mandate at all to propose banning composite sticks. That's a choice that needs to be left to the players. period.

[al48 1]

These guys didn't or rarely used composites (MacCinnis). And then you have Gretz who never used wood after 1995.

Lets just look at the all time NHL points list and see which players not only embraced composites, they used them until retirement:

1. Gretzky

2. Messier

3. Howe

4. Francis

5. Dionne

6. Yzerman

7. Lemieux

8. Esposito

9. Sakic

10. Bourque

*Players bolded used comp/aluminum

**Players in italics played before the technology was available.

So who does this leave? Mario

Is Mario denouncing composites? What about Mark "I can't have enough media exposure" Messier?

Of course former players have an opinion on the operations of the league. Although, the weight of their opinion isn't much.

I'll put it this way, it would be like Eddie Shore weighing in on his opinion of the new Bauer Vapors. Pretty meaningless.

Who exactly are you arguing with? I gave you my stance. And, yes, if Bauer Vapors were of some controversy (like falling apart in the middle of a breakaway, I'd want to hear everyone's input, old and young, before I gathered an opinion. It's called being objective; something which you're not being. You have your opinion and you're gonna stand by it no matter what anyone says; all the while kicking, screaming, and defaming other opinions. That's not a good way to go about things.

Despite all this, you're making decent points for composite sticks if I read between your over-enthusiasm and attacks on others. I've read them and don't disagree with what you're saying.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

And apparently the entire point of my post was missed by you. I don't give a s*** that scoring is down in the league, and I especially reject the idea that composite sticks= lower scoring in any case. There are many more factors that are contributing to lower scoring.

The question that I asked that you failed to address( although apparently you found time to flame me a bit), is why should the players not be able to use composite sticks?

Unless you can prove outright that composite sticks= lower scoring then you have no mandate at all to propose banning composite sticks. That's a choice that needs to be left to the players. period.

I'm not the one who suggested banning them. It was dumbasses like MacInnis and Gretzky. So go tell them off why don't ya?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

You're not going to debate it because your argument doesn't hold water. Composites aren't a fringe piece of equipment like heated skate blades. 99.999999999% of the NHL uses them. If you can't see the hypocrisy in Wanye Gretzky wanting to ban composite sticks then maybe the age is getting to you.

The only two major stars that use wood in this league are Spezza and Statsny. Statsny is given, his dad probably holds the same resentment towards composite as Mickey Redmond.

Its great though, I love how people treat it like its an epidemic hampering the game. As if a stick is breaking during every shift, during every prime scoring opportunity,

Good article from last year about composites. Guy seems to agree with what you've chosen to use personally.

http://www.hockeydirt.com/2006/01/the_players_per.html

more articles

http://www.hyha.org/Page.asp?n=18571&org=hyha.org

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2003/04/25/...icks030425.html

this article actually refutes your claim that Gretz finished his career with composites

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sport...at=&sid=101

well, at the ripe old age of 30, if I ever lace them up again I'll be going to battle with my Sher Wood 5030 and hopefully, God willing, I'll be able to flash one last giant smile as I watch some 19 year old punk skate back to his bench in tears after I just two-handed his shiny, $250.00 stick into pieces. Yeah, that's how I want to go out. No goals, no glory. Just the sadistic pleasure of ruining somebody else's day. Yum!

[maltbyrocks18 0]

i dont agree that the graphite sticks are the down fall to scoring in the nhl, but i still feel that wood is the only true way to play hockey. I mean come on, its the player, not the stick. there is to much emphasis on the players stick than the players skill for how good he shoots. i register the hardest shot on my team and im the ONLY guy on my team that even uses a wood stick. Al was a beast with the lumber, and it was all him. every MPH was from his skill, not some technology making him look better than he really is. At least for amatuer hockey, if you need composite sticks to make your shot better then your just a panzie who wants to shoot like the real men who can shoot just as hard or harder with a 20 dollar stick compared to your ridiculous 200 dollar waste.