Samuelsson does not fit in

[TimeBinder 28]

Was that pass (YES SAMUELSSON DOES PASS) he made OVER a Dallas player's stick for a slick one-timer attempt by Kronwall (which was inches close to being a goal) infuriating or awful?

EDIT: Recognize and mention the good with the bad is all some of us are asking. I don't think that is too hard of a request.

OK the good - he is only costing us 1.2m.

[Opie 308]

Watching him tonight so far infuriates me :god he is awful. Elite my ass.

So how was last nights game for you?? And where are you today.

Not trying to pick on timebinder but his post was the first post I read in this thread this AM! Where are the rest of the "Sammy Haters".

Don't worry the question is rhetorical I knew none of you would be in this thread today!!!

Sammuelsson is playing much better, although I am still pissed when they have a 3 on 2 with Hank and Hudler, and Sammy floats a backhander into the goalies glove while leading the rush.

His mistakes are not as obvious as they used to be it seems, now that he is playing with Hank.

Hey thanks for posting after he did something well.

Honestly the guy is not my favorite Red Wing, but he does some things well, he is chipping in and playing well. Is he the best player, no, is he the worst, no.

Now before you flip out and say no one is worse than him, think about hockey ability not what they bring to the team, because if one of you thinks Downey, Drake, Kopecky, Ellis, Hartigan, are better than Sammy you are smoking your breakfast and Pancakes are not made for that.

He does an adequate to good job with what the team asks him to do!!

[mmorland 16]

And if things weren't bad enough, he gets second power play unit time ahead of Lebda who should be back there instead. I don't understand it myself either. It is totally blowing my prediction of Lebda getting 35 to 40 points this season. And yes I was serious.

Speaking of power play time, I think Chelios is deserving of some. The only way her got it last year in the playoffs is when everyone went down. I know this has been a constant battle between Babcock and Chelios....just let the old man have his minutes!

[TimeBinder 28]

So how was last nights game for you?? And where are you today.

Not trying to pick on timebinder but his post was the first post I read in this thread this AM! Where are the rest of the "Sammy Haters".

OK opie, he still infuriates me - I'm still a "sammy hater" he scored a goal that was beautifully set up by Rex-big freaking deal. Every time he leads a odd man rush he sends a weak softball toss right at the goalie or he blisters a shot that reminds me of Happy Gilmore. His weight is 215 - for god sakes use it quit avoiding the physical contact - that is what we need especially in the playoffs. Contributing sporadically on the 2nd line is not good enough. He can't even pass - shoot sure(god knows where it will end up). He doesn't deserve 2nd line duty - when homer gets back; sit him. Better yet, trade the goofy looking bastard.

On a side note, I don't spend a lot of time on the computer. This is most I have in a long time. I HAVE BEEN READING THE THREADS. But I didn't really feel like adding anything - so bite me. He still sucks. Were you trumpeting his ENG too. WOW, he's really on a scoring tear, put Z on HIS wing.

Edited January 7, 2008 by TimeBinder

[Opie 308]

OK opie, he still infuriates me - I'm still a "sammy hater" he scored a goal that was beautifully set up by Rex-big freaking deal. Every time he leads a odd man rush he sends a weak softball toss right at the goalie or he blisters a shot that reminds me of Happy Gilmore. His weight is 215 - for god sakes use it quit avoiding the physical contact - that is what we need especially in the playoffs. Contributing sporadically on the 2nd line is not good enough. He can't even pass - shoot sure(god knows where it will end up). He doesn't deserve 2nd line duty - when homer gets back; sit him. Better yet, trade the goofy looking bastard.

On a side note, I don't spend a lot of time on the computer. This is most I have in a long time. I HAVE BEEN READING THE THREADS. But I didn't really feel like adding anything - so bite me. He still sucks. Were you trumpeting his ENG too. WOW, he's really on a scoring tear, put Z on HIS wing.

No I was not here trumpeting his ENG, in fact when he made the pass to Kariya (I think can't remember may have been MacDonald) in the blues loss I was on here saying that he played poorly.

He can't even pass, how do you figure that, where on earth do you people come up with this crap? Name me one team in the league that passing is a more important feature of a player. With how important puck possession is to this team do you really think they would continue to play him in those spots if he couldn't pass?

I appreciate your opinion but I am going to have to go with Babs, Holland and Co. who, correct me if I am wrong, have found a way to work this horrible player into their line up and post the following:

Best Team in the League

Best PP in the league

Best Statistical D in the League

Best Goal Differential in the league

Just to name a few

And as far as that goal being set up beautifully by Hudler, how many current Red Wings players game day roster or scratches miss that goal. Let me count them for you:

For sure miss that goal:

Downey

Kopecky

Ellis

Hartigan

Maltby

More than likely miss that goal:

Drake

Franzen (he is a good player don't mistake that but he is not a sniper)

May miss that goal but have a good chance at scoring it:

Sammy

Cleary

Draper

Filppula

Homer

If they miss it you let out a huge groan thinking it was a for sure goal:

Zetterberg (Every shot he takes I think is going in)

Hudler (he is the sniper behind Z)

Dats (Every shot he takes I think is going in)

Oh, also he is a right handed shot, so again how many of those Wing players would be in that spot.

I am not saying he is the reincarnation of Hull, or that he in any way shape or form is close to what Z or D or Homer are.

But people like yourself go around and complain about him, but offer no reasonable solution to the problem. From the start of this Sammy bashing I have said he is not a top 6 forward, however he plays the role well enough not to disrupt your top line. If Babs is going to Disrupt the first line to keep Cleary and Dats together than fine move the guy to the third or fourth line.

But if you are going to say he can't pass, at least have some proof to your argument that isn't as easily disputable as, he is in the NHL, you mean to tell me that some one made it to the NHL without the ability to pass. Or were you exaggerating and he just doesn't pass up to your expectations. Because the two are a lot different, the latter I can not argue, you set your expectations where you want to. The former is being represented as a fact, which oddly enough it isn't!

If I am overreacting in defending him when he is on "One" of his "lucky streaks" like last night, what are the rest of you doing complaining one game after a 5+ point streak.

And for those of you who Bash him and want him traded what do you honestly think the Wings can get in return?

If he is so bad that a bunch of people posting on the internet can figure it out what do you think the rest of the GM's in the league think of him.

BTW not trying to change your opinion just the way people post their opinion like it is fact. If you want to say he is your least favorite and you would like to see Lecavalier in his spot, I can't argue I would too, but that is not happening. And Yes odds are when homer comes back that spot will be his, BUT>>> Homer is not back yet, so in the meantime we (fans) wait. And deal with a sub par player in the position knowing no one on the current healthy roster does it better!

I agree Sammy should be moved in order to make a space for cleary, but you can not just swap the two out, there are things like handedness to think about.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

Sure Sammy has been passing a little here and there, but I can't stand him. He shoots way above his pay grade if you know what I mean. He's basically a puck hog in terms of shots. We all knew some kid like this when we played in bantam league and its worse than being useless.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

Sure Sammy has been passing a little here and there, but I can't stand him. He shoots way above his pay grade if you know what I mean. He's basically a puck hog in terms of shots. We all knew some kid like this when we played in bantam league and its worse than being useless.

lol hes like the coaches son =D

[redwings56 1]

I started this thread about a month and a half ago i think and at that time Sammy was lost in my opinion. A lot of you agreed and some good debates were present. BUT I haven't noticed Sammy as much! That is a good thing that means he is not turning pucks over too much and shooting like that is all he knows.

He is playing soo much better. I like him on the third line with Draper, they play well together and I hope he stays there.

My view on him has changed since last month, he is an assest and worth the price JUST DON'T PAIR HIM WITH HANK!!!! Zetterberg is the sniper, we do not need Sammy taking shots away from Hank.

Z and Pavs are back in the swing and Hank is coming for the Hart, Rocket, and Art Ross with Datsyuk by his side winning the Selke and Lady Bing WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO go wings.

but just keep Sammy away from top minutes! he is playing great right now.

[WhiteLightning91 105]

I started this thread about a month and a half ago i think and at that time Sammy was lost in my opinion. A lot of you agreed and some good debates were present. BUT I haven't noticed Sammy as much! That is a good thing that means he is not turning pucks over too much and shooting like that is all he knows.

He is playing soo much better. I like him on the third line with Draper, they play well together and I hope he stays there.

My view on him has changed since last month, he is an assest and worth the price JUST DON'T PAIR HIM WITH HANK!!!! Zetterberg is the sniper, we do not need Sammy taking shots away from Hank.

Z and Pavs are back in the swing and Hank is coming for the Hart, Rocket, and Art Ross with Datsyuk by his side winning the Selke and Lady Bing WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO go wings.

but just keep Sammy away from top minutes! he is playing great right now.

I dont think people would complain about Samuelsson nearly as much if he was relegated to 3rd line always. Its been said many times that he is too good for 4th line duty but not good enough to be on the top 2 lines. He makes $1.2M a season and for the amount of production you get from him, it is a good deal. I just hope he doesn't think he's in the same boat as Filppula and Cleary when it comes to him getting an extension next year, meaning he does not deserve as big of a raise as those 2.

In comparison to the others with the same amount of production as Sammy:

Lombardi: $1.55M

Pyatt: $1.575M

Elias: $7.5M

Satan: $4.5M

Filppula: $850K

Wow...The only one making less money than Samuelsson and putting as getting as much production as him is our man Flap Jack. If that doesn't prove we have the best front office in hockey...

[Sergeiwasmyfav 0]

I started this thread about a month and a half ago i think and at that time Sammy was lost in my opinion. A lot of you agreed and some good debates were present. BUT I haven't noticed Sammy as much! That is a good thing that means he is not turning pucks over too much and shooting like that is all he knows.

He is playing soo much better. I like him on the third line with Draper, they play well together and I hope he stays there.

My view on him has changed since last month, he is an assest and worth the price JUST DON'T PAIR HIM WITH HANK!!!! Zetterberg is the sniper, we do not need Sammy taking shots away from Hank.

Z and Pavs are back in the swing and Hank is coming for the Hart, Rocket, and Art Ross with Datsyuk by his side winning the Selke and Lady Bing WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO go wings.

but just keep Sammy away from top minutes! he is playing great right now.

I agree completely with everything you said in this post. Sammy has improved lately and I'm glad a few others are noticing it. I think it is very classy of you to come back to your original post and update your thoughts as a player's level of play changes. It seems that so many people are so hell-bent on either loving a player or hating a player that they cannot see when that player is playng sub-par or is doing much better. Sammy is not my favorite, and sometimes I do think to myself, "What was he thinking," but credit should be given when it is due, and he does deserve credit for improving his play of late. Kudos to you for being objective and not just blindly continuing the "Sammy sucks" parade.

[redwings56 1]

I agree completely with everything you said in this post. Sammy has improved lately and I'm glad a few others are noticing it. I think it is very classy of you to come back to your original post and update your thoughts as a player's level of play changes. It seems that so many people are so hell-bent on either loving a player or hating a player that they cannot see when that player is playng sub-par or is doing much better. Sammy is not my favorite, and sometimes I do think to myself, "What was he thinking," but credit should be given when it is due, and he does deserve credit for improving his play of late. Kudos to you for being objective and not just blindly continuing the "Sammy sucks" parade.

Yea, I hope others that bashed him in my thread can realize that he has been playing a lot better. Let's credit that to Babcock putting him in the right situations. Let's not forget that when he was playing poorly, Holmstrom was out and Sammy had to eat up some minutes, and now that Drake is out Sammy has moved into a third line role.

[2probert4 8]

Let's compare Sammy to other division leaders' 6th place scoring forwards.:

M.Samuelsson, DET: 36 GP, 6-16-22, +9

J.Williams, CAR; 36 GP, 9-21-30, +2

C.Kelly, OTW: 39 GP, 7-11-18, +4

D.Zubrus, NJ: 38 GP, 6-12-18, +2

R.Kesler, VAN: 38 GP, 9-9-18, +5

N.Hagman, DAL: 40 GP, 14-5-19, E

The average stat line for the other five guys listed in Sammy's 36 games would be:

191 GP, 45-58-103, +13

36 GP, 8-11-19, +2

Sammy is better than average offensively for a #6 scoring forward on a division leader. He's also the best defensive player listed. Those of you who say Sammy is not a top six forward are going based more on the fact he's not a big name or the fact that you are used to the Wings having a top-six made entirely of first-line forwards.

Mikael Samuelsson is a top six forward, and has been for a couple seasons. Sammy is a top six forward when compared to other guys in similar positions on top teams. He's also #113 in points per game among forwards, even including guys who have only played one or two games and scored points. Top six, for reference, would be 180 forwards. He's not perfect, but he's a good player.

Nice to see youve kept those red glasses Ev.....

[redwings56 1]

Samuelsson had a rough night against Pheonix, but he has still been playing well before the break. I really liked the lines last night with hudler, kopecky, fil. and Sammy with Franzen and Cleary. I'd like to see Cleary though play with Pavs and Hank. But the top guns stepped up last night and Sammy was noticeable which is never a good thing for him, because it means people will see how poor he played. But I feel he will turn it around once he gets his legs under him.

One play last night when he was crossing the blue line on a 2 on 2 he really likes to stickhandle right on the blue as he crosses, and ofcourse cleary went offside. Another time he should have entered the offensive zone but instead stopped the rush and turned back into neutral zone.

I expect more from him based on his play in the last month. He will turn it around and he is a piece on the team that is better than what other teams have.