Oh, that silly Steve Downie...

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Sorry, but what you guys are talking about isn't hockey. At least not anything I'd want to watch. You're basically saying you're a fan of Claude Lemieux type bullsh*t.

When they talk about how players no longer respect one another, Downie is a perfect example. They guy's played 4 games in the NHL and he's managed to get a 20 game suspension, now a suckerpunch.

I love hard hitting, good fights, physical hockey. This is bush league. Jamming your thumb in a guys eye as he's held by the ref?

And honestly, I don't like Avery but i wouldn't group him with Tootoo and Downie. Avery's got a mouth and will turtle, but I haven't seen him pull half the crap those two have.

Claude Lemieux is another example. I hate the guy, but had the stuff he did never happened, we'd have been left without my greatest Wings memory (the revenge on Claude)....and one hell of a bloody rivalry. Again like Downie, i dont like Lemieux whatsoever but theres no denying things sure as hell werent the same when he left. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, we all enjoyed Lemieux's part in the rivalry. Im not saying we should have cheapshots all the time, but from my perspective as a fan villians like this who everyone wants to see get their ass kicked is a good part of the game. If that Philly vs Ottawa game is on VS, not one of us wont be intrigued by it. I know we dont see eye to eye on this and that i wont convince you, but thats where im coming from.

[lets go pavel 2]

Claude Lemieux is another example. I hate the guy, but had the stuff he did never happened, we'd have been left without my greatest Wings memory (the revenge on Claude)....and one hell of a bloody rivalry. Again like Downie, i dont like Lemieux whatsoever but theres no denying things sure as hell werent the same when he left. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, we all enjoyed Lemieux's part in the rivalry. Im not saying we should have cheapshots all the time, but from my perspective as a fan villians like this who everyone wants to see get their ass kicked is a good part of the game. If that Philly vs Ottawa game is on VS, not one of us wont be intrigued by it. I know we dont see eye to eye on this and that i wont convince you, but thats where im coming from.

i think it's a bit early to start comparing downie to claude lemieux ... i didn't just hate lemieux because of the cheapshots, but on top of all that the guy could play and had a knack for timely goals, especially in the playoffs ... that made him a great "guy you love to hate" ... so far downie's doesn't seem to be bringing anything to the table except dirty play, and if that's all he's got he shouldn't be playing ... just my 2 cents

Edited January 9, 2008 by lets go pavel

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Claude Lemieux is another example. I hate the guy, but had the stuff he did never happened, we'd have been left without my greatest Wings memory (the revenge on Claude)....and one hell of a bloody rivalry. Again like Downie, i dont like Lemieux whatsoever but theres no denying things sure as hell werent the same when he left. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, we all enjoyed Lemieux's part in the rivalry. Im not saying we should have cheapshots all the time, but from my perspective as a fan villians like this who everyone wants to see get their ass kicked is a good part of the game. If that Philly vs Ottawa game is on VS, not one of us wont be intrigued by it. I know we dont see eye to eye on this and that i wont convince you, but thats where im coming from.

Honestly I feel like you enjoy a more professional wrestling element to the sport than I do. The whole "retribution" because of some cheapshot doesn't really appeal to me, and I think it's ultimately bad for the sport.

The Lemieux cheapshot brought it to a head, but the Wings Avs rivalry was already heated without his hit from behind. It wasn't just the cheapshot. The Avs were the biggest obstacle between the Wings and the Cup for several years.

I can see the sport needing villains, but to me that's not the same as the kind of cheapshots we're talking about here.

Roy was a villain, without the crap.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

i think it's a bit early to start comparing downie to claude lemieux ... i didn't just hate lemieux because of the cheapshots, but on top of all that the guy could play and had a knack for timely goals, especially in the playoffs ... that made him a great "guy you love to hate" ... so far downie's doesn't seem to be bringing anything to the table except dirty play, and if that's all he's got he shouldn't be playing ... just my 2 cents

I was only comparing to Lemieux in the sense of the dirty play and cheapshot. There's definitely on other similarity. Claude was a ridiculously clutch player.

Downie hasn't managed to play 5 games at the NHL level without a suspension or suckerpunch.

[tony 3]

you no what i find really funny

everyones saying that they find it wrong what downie does

but yet they want him hurt

hmmmm really makes you think :chug:

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Honestly I feel like you enjoy a more professional wrestling element to the sport than I do. The whole "retribution" because of some cheapshot doesn't really appeal to me, and I think it's ultimately bad for the sport.

The Lemieux cheapshot brought it to a head, but the Wings Avs rivalry was already heated without his hit from behind. It wasn't just the cheapshot. The Avs were the biggest obstacle between the Wings and the Cup for several years.

I can see the sport needing villains, but to me that's not the same as the kind of cheapshots we're talking about here.

Roy was a villain, without the crap.

FYI, I did happen to be a massive wrestling fan years back and always rooted for the bad guys every time (what do ya know!)...so there might be something to that comment. I do really like games with storylines behind it....like Avery getting in Tucker's face that time in pre-game for instance. Others might view that as him just being a ****** or whatnot, while someone like me enjoys the hell out of it and pumps me for the game. I can definitely see the pro wrestling comparison. Revenge is one of my favorite aspects about hockey, to me theres probably not anything that gets me excited more than a game where theres talk of payback on somebody. The Wings and Avs rivalry wouldve existed on a hockey level no doubt, but i dont believe you see anywhere near the bad blood and all the fighting if not for Claude's cheapshot on Draper.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

i think it's a bit early to start comparing downie to claude lemieux ... i didn't just hate lemieux because of the cheapshots, but on top of all that the guy could play and had a knack for timely goals, especially in the playoffs ... that made him a great "guy you love to hate" ... so far downie's doesn't seem to be bringing anything to the table except dirty play, and if that's all he's got he shouldn't be playing ... just my 2 cents

He's no Lemieux sure, but the guy's not a bad player whatsoever. He's a 1st rd pick and already has 2 goals in 5 games.

[imisssergei 0]

FYI, I did happen to be a massive wrestling fan years back and always rooted for the bad guys every time (what do ya know!)...so there might be something to that comment. I do really like games with storylines behind it....like Avery getting in Tucker's face that time in pre-game for instance. Others might view that as him just being a ****** or whatnot, while someone like me enjoys the hell out of it and pumps me for the game. I can definitely see the pro wrestling comparison. Revenge is one of my favorite aspects about hockey, to me theres probably not anything that gets me excited more than a game where theres talk of payback on somebody. The Wings and Avs rivalry wouldve existed on a hockey level no doubt, but i dont believe you see anywhere near the bad blood and all the fighting if not for Claude's cheapshot on Draper.

I'm a fan of agitation. But seriously, the line needs to be drawn somewhere! Although, I guess he didn't bite anyone!

[Opie 308]

He's no Lemieux sure, but the guy's not a bad player whatsoever. He's a 1st rd pick and already has 2 goals in 5 games.

The problem is Lou, that he also has a 20 game suspension in there, another act that could have been suspendable and I can almost guarentee that he is suspended for at least 15 next season.

Playing on the edge is one thing, but consistently playing over the edge is another. Bad example I know but bare with me:

Chris Simon, used to be an edgy player who would fight, scrap, hit, then he lost his ability to skate and play with the speed of the new NHL. He turned into a suspension machine and a thug. Downey is already that, what makes you think he will change. And I hate to see what happens if this dude gets a high stick, or an elbow from a guy like Thornton or Crosby, even if it is a clean hard hit, this guy will go head hunting afterwards.

He is a loose, unsafe, dangerous cannon, and if he were on another team besides this years Flyers I would hold out some hope that the org would change that, but Philly seems to like it. I on the other hand think his actions are uncalled for and giving the league a black eye (Pun inteneded)!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

FYI, I did happen to be a massive wrestling fan years back and always rooted for the bad guys every time (what do ya know!)...so there might be something to that comment. I do really like games with storylines behind it....like Avery getting in Tucker's face that time in pre-game for instance. Others might view that as him just being a ****** or whatnot, while someone like me enjoys the hell out of it and pumps me for the game. I can definitely see the pro wrestling comparison. Revenge is one of my favorite aspects about hockey, to me theres probably not anything that gets me excited more than a game where theres talk of payback on somebody. The Wings and Avs rivalry wouldve existed on a hockey level no doubt, but i dont believe you see anywhere near the bad blood and all the fighting if not for Claude's cheapshot on Draper.

I hear what you're saying, I've just been a fan of hockey over the years where the villains could also play the game and weren't just out there trying to hurt guys like Downie and Tootoo and a few others.

Wendel Clark, Chris Chelios, Patty Wah, even guys like Avery and Pronger are great villains.

[Turkey 0]

Clarke Loves Cheapshots

So in Bobby Clarke's world, if a hockey player injures another player by a play that is not only dangerous and stupid but also deliberate, no one should say anything about it. If they do have the poor taste to actually call the goon out, then they should just take their cheap shots to the face and remember they deserve it.

Way to go Clarke. You're a real helper.