Rafalski?

[redwings56 1]

Rafalski is a great addition! Plain and simple. I did not think much of Scneids last year, he wasn't good defensively whereas Rafalski is and knows what is takes to win championships. Every Wing fan will enjoy him in the playoffs.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

look....raf is the second rated d-man in the league and we have him next to the #1. that should be it right there.

[Sergeiwasmyfav 0]

Is it just me or does Rafalski turn over the puck way too much for a six million dollar defensemen? I know he is having a career offensive year and his right handed pass on the point is a rarity but I am disappointed with his defensive ability.

I'm so glad someone else finally noticed. I also think his skill on the point leaves something to be desired. He gets his shots blocked a ridiculously high amount of times for someone of his supposed ability. I don't think he is awful or anything, and he is a good replacement for Schneider, but I agree with you.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

so he makes a few bad turnovers. i think that if schnides was still here, we'd be seeing even more out of him. i mean, look, the guy's a plus twelve...which is good for 3rd among defensmen on the wings. maybe you could expect more, but, and stop me if i'm wrong here, he normally doesn't get paired with lids in even strength situations, right? lids is unique because he's amazing at offense and defense. if he plays with a stay at home guy, there will be a lot less goals against...and if he plays with an offensive minded defenseman, there will be a lot more goals for. rafalski is great at offense, but not as stellar at d. so with the amount he's producing upfront, i'll give a little on the backend. i'd be concerned if he was -10, but +12 is nothing to scoff at. just my opinion.

sidenote: there are certainly times when watching a game when i'm like, "rafalski, you dumb f***!" but there are about three players on the wings that i don't say that to from time to time. *shrug* when he starts turning the puck over that lead to goals against way more than he's scoring, then i'll start bashing him.

Lids and Raf are partnered together more often than not......in fact, the majority of the time whether its a PP or not.

[kevotron 3]

he's lazy and he sucks! (WHAT? This ISN'T a thread about Robert Lang? Crap! Nevermind.)

[wingslogo19 281]

People may get on my case for saying this but im going to say it... Raffy had one bad game last night, yes he turned the puck over and could score on the empty net. Big deal, all players have an off night. Even Lids has had his bad games.. come playoff time Raffy will be solid.. Just my 2 cents

[ben_usmc 253]

some people are so short sited

[IceMunkee 15]

some people are so short sited

No real depth to your post, no insight, no opinion, just an insult....

[thedisappearer 291]

No real depth to your post, no insight, no opinion, just an insult....

and a spelling mistake to boot (short sighted).

Anyway, to the important stuff.

Rafs does not play as well as Lids. He's not as solid defensively, and he's just not as fluid overall. He makes a couple of turnovers that we as Wings fans are not used to seeing a first line D-man make. We are spoiled by Nicky.

Look as some other D-men who are earning comparable paychecks. No thanks, I'll take Rafs any day.

Where's Duckguy? How's Schneids playing this year? Any complaints?

[Louisville 112]

OMFG

You guys are never happy.

Rafalski is fine. Shut the f*** up.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

No real depth to your post, no insight, no opinion, just an insult....

Actually, I think its a very astute comment. Not only is 6M market value now, but itll be less than market value come next year when the cap is up to 54M as projected.

As for 6M being too much...um Mccabe and Kubina both got 5M what? 2 years ago? Thatd be like 7M with todays cap. Look at what Schneider got. Had Schneider been 5 years younger, he probably wouldve gotten 6.5 instead of 5.75, which is still a ton. Look at Hamrlik, landing over 5M. Did he deserve it? Hell no. But he got it. Souray got 5M also, and hes superior to ALL those guys.

As for the Shneider/Rafalski comparison, Rafalski is actually the better of the two defensively. Schneider had tons of turnovers too. Same as Rafalski so far, who Id give the rest of the season to fully integrate himself into Detroits system after playing his entire NHL career in a strict New Jersey system. But one thing people are forgetting, or maybe just never noticed much with Schneider cause they didnt look hard enough, but Schneider was NOTORIOUS for pinching at the wrong times. Game in and game out hed either pinch at the wrong time, or play the body of a guy that he couldnt handle and that player would then blow right past him. A lot of times other Wings Dmen would have to cover for that and if a goal/scoring chance for the opposition resulted from that, it made it look more like the fault of the Dman that had to cover for Schneider than it actually being Schnediers fault.

In terms of hockey sense, Rafalski has tons of it, and is heads and shoulders above Schneider in that department. However, its gotta be hard to be thinking in certain terms within such a calculated system as New Jersey and then have to hop on over to Detroit where everything is about passing plays.

[Louisville 112]

However, its gotta be hard to be thinking in certain terms within such a calculated system as New Jersey and then have to hop on over to Detroit where everything is about passing plays.

Not only that, but Rafalski played his entire career in the Eastern conference. You gotta figure there is an adjustment period for him when facing different forwards in the West.

[thedisappearer 291]

Actually, I think its a very astute comment. Not only is 6M market value now, but itll be less than market value come next year when the cap is up to 54M as projected.

As for 6M being too much...um Mccabe and Kubina both got 5M what? 2 years ago? Thatd be like 7M with todays cap. Look at what Schneider got. Had Schneider been 5 years younger, he probably wouldve gotten 6.5 instead of 5.75, which is still a ton. Look at Hamrlik, landing over 5M. Did he deserve it? Hell no. But he got it. Souray got 5M also, and hes superior to ALL those guys.

As for the Shneider/Rafalski comparison, Rafalski is actually the better of the two defensively. Schneider had tons of turnovers too. Same as Rafalski so far, who Id give the rest of the season to fully integrate himself into Detroits system after playing his entire NHL career in a strict New Jersey system. But one thing people are forgetting, or maybe just never noticed much with Schneider cause they didnt look hard enough, but Schneider was NOTORIOUS for pinching at the wrong times. Game in and game out hed either pinch at the wrong time, or play the body of a guy that he couldnt handle and that player would then blow right past him. A lot of times other Wings Dmen would have to cover for that and if a goal/scoring chance for the opposition resulted from that, it made it look more like the fault of the Dman that had to cover for Schneider than it actually being Schnediers fault.

In terms of hockey sense, Rafalski has tons of it, and is heads and shoulders above Schneider in that department. However, its gotta be hard to be thinking in certain terms within such a calculated system as New Jersey and then have to hop on over to Detroit where everything is about passing plays.

...what he said!

[IceMunkee 15]

All I said was I have been dissappointed thus far. I have eaten crow many times before. I did not call for a hanging.

Let me ask this. If he is the second best D-man in the league, maybe he should QB the second d-line and split the talent up.

Lids-Kronner

Raf-Lebda

Just a thought. Spread that number one and number two around a bit.

[Feldmarschall 9]

All I said was I have been dissappointed thus far. I have eaten crow many times before. I did not call for a hanging.

Let me ask this. If he is the second best D-man in the league, maybe he should QB the second d-line and split the talent up.

Lids-Kronner

Raf-Lebda

Just a thought. Spread that number one and number two around a bit.

It would look more like

Lidstrom-Kronwall

Rafalski-Lilja

Lebda-Chelios

I had figured on them doing this to begin the season, but Babs surprised me. Fortunate for us it has been working out.

The thing with Rafalski's defensive play is that he's no Schneider - he is patient with the play. He'll just hang with a forward and pinch them to the outside and while he occasionally gets beat in the corners or down low by a bigger forward, Nick always covers up front (and vice versa). Also, the way Babs' system makes our center crash down behind our own net, he doesn't usually get into trouble. Yes, his own-zone turnovers can be bad, but they're no worse than some of the critical ones Schneider and Lilja made, either, especially Schneider's penchant for giving up the puck on the enemy blueline and giving a forward a breakaway. It's a fact of life that players hand over the puck sometimes. Just happens to be more obvious when a defenseman does it. His play elsewhere is solid, even if he can be inconsistent and have some godawful nights. All things considered, he's a good D-man at a good price.

[Booster313 138]

Thanks for all the comments. Some great points on both sides!

[Rice 42]

All I said was I have been dissappointed thus far. I have eaten crow many times before. I did not call for a hanging.

Let me ask this. If he is the second best D-man in the league, maybe he should QB the second d-line and split the talent up.

Lids-Kronner

Raf-Lebda

Just a thought. Spread that number one and number two around a bit.

If Rafalski is as deficient in his own zone as you say he is, why in the world would you want to pair him with Lebda?

[Booster313 138]

If Rafalski is as deficient in his own zone as you say he is, why in the world would you want to pair him with Lebda?

I think that's the point...if he's that good why not split him from Lidstrom?

[IceMunkee 15]

If Rafalski is as deficient in his own zone as you say he is, why in the world would you want to pair him with Lebda?

If he is as good as you say he his, why not???

If he is as good as you say he is why is Kronner QBing the second d-line?

So is Kronner better is that what your saying? Cuase he makes $3,000,000.

[Dabura 12,232]

Rafalski's an elite player and a proven champion. He's doing everything he was brought in to do -- namely, provide a veteran, o-minded presence on the blue line and help the PP. I'll admit that he's made his fair share of bad plays this season, but I'm sure he's still adjusting to the system. At the very least, he's unequivocally better than Schneider.

[JoePuckster 4]

I think Rafalski was a great pick-up. He had a really solid start to the season... great defensively and offensively, and was making AMAZING passes up the ice to the forwards. In the last couple weeks, however, his play seems to have slipped. He's giving up the puck, losing battles in the corners, and I haven't seen the great passes anymore. Let's just hope this is a bit of a slump for him and he gets back on his game. That's all I think it is... I think he'll really prove himself in the playoffs.

GO WINGS!!!!!

http://www.FireBettman.com

[Rice 42]

If he is as good as you say he his, why not???

If he is as good as you say he is why is Kronner QBing the second d-line?

So is Kronner better is that what your saying? Cuase he makes $3,000,000.

When did I ever say the guy is a Lidstrom clone?

Lilja is better in his own end than Lebda is, which is why I'd rather see Lilja with Rafalski if Rafalski and Lidstrom were to be split up. Lebda is a good number six defenseman. He's not a top-four guy.

Yeah, he makes some mistakes. He's also adjusting to a new system and a new conference. He's shaky in his own zone, but there are very few defenseman that can produce like he can offensively that aren't shaky in their own zone. That's why he's worth $6 million. His market value was greater than Schneider's because he's five years younger.

Fact of the matter is he's easily one of the best offensive defenseman in the game (as evidenced by the Wings' improved powerplay and Rafalski's numbers) who is good, but not perfect, defensively.

Again, when you're taking salary into account you have to think about market value. Kronwall wasn't signed as an established veteran who won two Stanley Cups. He was drafted by the Wings and extended after not having done much at all to deserve such a deal. He was paid based on his potential; Rafalski was paid based on what he has done. That's the bottom line. I don't get why you're so hellbent on making Rafalski out to be overpaid. Who else were the Wings going to fill the gap with?

[IceMunkee 15]

When did I ever say the guy is a Lidstrom clone?

Lilja is better in his own end than Lebda is, which is why I'd rather see Lilja with Rafalski if Rafalski and Lidstrom were to be split up. Lebda is a good number six defenseman. He's not a top-four guy.

Yeah, he makes some mistakes. He's also adjusting to a new system and a new conference. He's shaky in his own zone, but there are very few defenseman that can produce like he can offensively that aren't shaky in their own zone. That's why he's worth $6 million. His market value was greater than Schneider's because he's five years younger.

Fact of the matter is he's easily one of the best offensive defenseman in the game (as evidenced by the Wings' improved powerplay and Rafalski's numbers) who is good, but not perfect, defensively.

Again, when you're taking salary into account you have to think about market value. Kronwall wasn't signed as an established veteran who won two Stanley Cups. He was drafted by the Wings and extended after not having done much at all to deserve such a deal. He was paid based on his potential; Rafalski was paid based on what he has done. That's the bottom line. I don't get why you're so hellbent on making Rafalski out to be overpaid. Who else were the Wings going to fill the gap with?

I really thought you were saying that he should not get split. Although I disagree about Lebda although he seems to be in the same slump as Raf is.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

With Rafalski you have to take the good with the bad. He's not going to all of a sudden stop turning the puck over. We had to sign him because Schneider left. Let's just hope that come playoff time, he won't make any huge turnovers that cost the Wings games.

[Mikeal 60]

Rafalski is fine. Shut the f*** up.

./Agree!

He is putting up great stats. Everyone has non-perfect days besides lids...