Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 As much of a d-bag he's been this year, still one of the best ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Canadian Wings Report post Posted January 31, 2008 One of the best ever. Whoever voted for the other two are seriously lost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reds4Life 51 Report post Posted February 1, 2008 He is great dman, HOF lock, definitely know what it takes to win, champion. He won pretty much everything he could. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glasgowcelticwing 18 Report post Posted February 1, 2008 Gotta respect Neids . great Defenceman . he's an out and out winner through and through . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted February 1, 2008 Definitely one of the greats. Though his behavior this season has definitely tarnished his image for me. The indecision and stringing his team along like that seems so completely out of character for him. BUT, I don't want to derail this thread into debating that. So back on topic, definitely one of the best d-men out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turkey 0 Report post Posted February 1, 2008 I totally agree with Harold Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 2, 2008 Niedermayer is overrated. He was not a Norris contender for the first eleven years of his career. Name me another All-Time great defenseman who played the first eleven years of his career as a second tier (or lower) defenseman. For reference, Nick Lidstrom was top ten in Norris votes as a rookie and had won the Norris three times and been a First-team All-Star SIX times in his first eleven seasons. Ray Bourque was a First or Second Team All-Star in each of his first seventeen seasons. Chris Chelios had won the Norris twice in his first eleven seasons and had been named a First-Team or Second-Team All-Star several times. Niedermayer was not considered an elite defenseman until he won the Norris in 2004. I can think of several guys whose careers started at around the same time who were considered elite earlier and longer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vangvace 12 Report post Posted February 3, 2008 One of the best from this era. Definitely behind Lidstrom and Bourque, but him and Chelios are my second pairing. His playing in New Jersey for so long could have held back his recognition. Very similar to Osgood in a way. Being credited with being a product of his environment as opposed to what he brings. However, I am still disappointed with his actions this offseason, but not to the hatred level of others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted February 4, 2008 Niedermayer is overrated. He was not a Norris contender for the first eleven years of his career. Name me another All-Time great defenseman who played the first eleven years of his career as a second tier (or lower) defenseman. For reference, Nick Lidstrom was top ten in Norris votes as a rookie and had won the Norris three times and been a First-team All-Star SIX times in his first eleven seasons. Ray Bourque was a First or Second Team All-Star in each of his first seventeen seasons. Chris Chelios had won the Norris twice in his first eleven seasons and had been named a First-Team or Second-Team All-Star several times. Niedermayer was not considered an elite defenseman until he won the Norris in 2004. I can think of several guys whose careers started at around the same time who were considered elite earlier and longer. Not being as good as Nick or Bourque or Chelios doesn't make him a 2nd tier dman or make you overrated. They don't put you in the hall of fame for what you accomplished only in your rookie year or first 5 years or 10 or whatever. Its the entire body of work. Many of the dmen you note played during the high scoring days of the NHL. Lidstrom, who I think is the best ever had the benefit of playing on teams that were great both offensively and defensively. Niedermayer, by and large his entire career played on great defensive teams that had very limited scoring ability. You look at somebody like Lids who has played with some of the most prolific scorers in history. Who did Niedermayer play with? Patrick Elias as their best, most consistent point producer? One friggin guy? Maybe Mogilny at times? When the Norris has generally been handed out to the most prolific dman the past 15 years, I wonder what Niedermayer would've been able to do on a team that could score 3 goals per game. The lack of scoring by the Devils as a whole plays a big part in his personal numbers and hence probably why he didn't challenge for more Norris trophies. Playing in Stevens shadow for awhile didn't help either. Niedermayer was a prolific offensive defensman in his junior days. IMO, the Devils did a disservice to his personal numbers by drafting him. Its no coincidence that his first year in Anaheim he put up more points than he ever had in his career. That system in New Jersey handcuffed him. NHL accomplishments 4 cups 1 conn smyth 1 norris 2 time 1st all star 1 time 2nd all star all rookie team Show me anybody who isn't just a fan of the game that says Niedermayer is overrated. Show me one hockey person who can be quoted as saying that. Sorry, the only people who think he's overrated are fans and frankly, me included, fans don't know s***. Show me a GM, coach or analyst who thinks he's overrated. Sorry, conventional wisdom on this issue just happens to be true. He's elite. Not the #1 guy, but elite nevertheless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted April 11, 2008 Not being as good as Nick or Bourque or Chelios doesn't make him a 2nd tier dman or make you overrated. They don't put you in the hall of fame for what you accomplished only in your rookie year or first 5 years or 10 or whatever. Its the entire body of work. Many of the dmen you note played during the high scoring days of the NHL. Lidstrom, who I think is the best ever had the benefit of playing on teams that were great both offensively and defensively. Niedermayer, by and large his entire career played on great defensive teams that had very limited scoring ability. You look at somebody like Lids who has played with some of the most prolific scorers in history. Who did Niedermayer play with? Patrick Elias as their best, most consistent point producer? One friggin guy? Maybe Mogilny at times? When the Norris has generally been handed out to the most prolific dman the past 15 years, I wonder what Niedermayer would've been able to do on a team that could score 3 goals per game. The lack of scoring by the Devils as a whole plays a big part in his personal numbers and hence probably why he didn't challenge for more Norris trophies. Playing in Stevens shadow for awhile didn't help either. Niedermayer was a prolific offensive defensman in his junior days. IMO, the Devils did a disservice to his personal numbers by drafting him. Its no coincidence that his first year in Anaheim he put up more points than he ever had in his career. That system in New Jersey handcuffed him. NHL accomplishments 4 cups 1 conn smyth 1 norris 2 time 1st all star 1 time 2nd all star all rookie team Show me anybody who isn't just a fan of the game that says Niedermayer is overrated. Show me one hockey person who can be quoted as saying that. Sorry, the only people who think he's overrated are fans and frankly, me included, fans don't know s***. Show me a GM, coach or analyst who thinks he's overrated. Sorry, conventional wisdom on this issue just happens to be true. He's elite. Not the #1 guy, but elite nevertheless. Defensemen whose careers started in 1990 or later and received a Norris nomination before 2004: Vladimir Konstantinov, Detroit Sandis Ozolinsh, San Jose Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit Chris Pronger, St. Louis Derian Hatcher, Dallas Niedermayer has been an elite defenseman the past few years...but that doesn't retroactively make him an elite defenseman his entire career. And Scott Stevens didn't have any trouble getting recognized with Norris consideration in New Jersey for much of the 1990s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
