YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 Fixed it for you! ...he was tied with Zetterberg, who, by the way, NHL.COM lists AHEAD of Crosby in the stats section... ...I guess you win the Cup, you win the Conn Smythe you get the tied break! LOL! ...so, officially, per the NHL, Crosby was #2 BEHIND Zetterberg... NHL.com is wrong. Games played is NOT the tie breaker when points are tied. Goals are. Zetterberg is 1st. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 NHL.com is wrong. Games played is NOT the tie breaker when points are tied. Goals are. Zetterberg is 1st. uh...did I say anything about Games Played? or Tie Break? So, what you're saying is, Zetterberg lead the playoffs in scoring? Right? I thought so. Which was my point, the user said Crosby lead the playoffs, I simply pointed out that the NHL thinks differently. Crosby..............OUT! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 1.) Ovechkin 2.) Crosby 3.) Iginla 4.) Zetterberg 5.) Malkin 6.) Datsyuk 7.) Thornton 8.) Lecavalier 9.) Heatley 10.) Kovalchuk IMO. I know people will probably say the Iginla position is wrong, but he's the man. When he retires he'll be remembered as the best Calgary Flame EVER. Plus he was up for the Hart this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 Zetterberg is the most dynamic two way player in the game without question, but to say he's better than Crosby and/or Ovechkin is a biased statement in my opinion. Zetterberg is my FAVOURITE player, I idolize him, and wish every player was like him... But let facts be facts, Crosby and Ovechkin are in leagues of their own. They didn't win scoring titles and MVPs by luck, they did it with pure skill. The way they play the game, the way they create opportunities is like no other, and no others we have seen since Lemieux or Gretzky. I'm not just taking that opinion from the media, I watch players closely. They don't slack defensively either, and I think the only guy who doesn't recognize Crosby's defensive game is Michel Therrien with not putting him shorthanded. You see the way Crosby can muck it up in corners, what you think that's ANY different from the way he would be able to play defensively? Guys aren't allowed to get the puck when he has it in the offensive corners, he could do the same in defensive situations, but I'm going to be the first to say Therrien doesn't let him. Crosby is the best hockey player in the world, and we are going to need to learn to deal with it, because he's going to be the best for the next 15 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dicksmack 33 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 How is it that your opinion is fact and those of others are biased? It's a value judgment. Crosby will be the best someday... If you have to resort to points per game to award a scoring "title" your reaching... Zetterberg has a superior goal-scoring touch than Crosby, as do about 50 other NHL'ers. Goal scorers can take control of a game more directly and effectively than passers. Zetterberg can be put on the ice in any situation and succeed. Who's the more valuable player? Crosby didn't repeat the magic of the previous year, sure he was injured for part of the year but them's the breaks... Crosby's top 5 on any list and he deserves respect but I wouldn't put him up with 99 and 66 just yet. As for top ten lists, who cares? And I think you just wanted to put Crosby at #1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 ...this is all stupid. The best! What makes you the best? Your regular season play or the amount of Championships you've won? Before Yzerman won in 1997, he was considered outside of Detroit and also ran. He could never get over that hump, he was always talked about as good, but never in the same sentences with Gretzky or Lemeiux. He was almost traded one year (1994.) The NHL put out a list of the top 50 players back in 1994 and Yzerman was NOT on that list. Once sports writer even said if the list were a top 51, Yzerman would be there. Now, he's a three time champion, he is gonna be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee, he now considered (in many markets outside of Detroit) as in the top 10 of all time players. All because he won 3 Championships... ....Eric Lndros (Hart Trophy winner) lead the league in goals and point on more than one occassion. During the mid 90's he was considerated 'The Next One" the best in the league. How many Championships? 5-10 years from now, if there is a top 50 list put out, highly doubtful Lindros woudl included on that list. Now, if he would have lived up to his potential (and stayed away from teammates wives) and won a Championship or two BEFORE he started his concussion circus, he would still be considered one of the best... ...Cindy Crosby, all I have to say is he better win a Championship berore too long, because just like Yzerman, he's gonna start hearing the talk about how he cannot win the big prize! Then it'll get in his head and then what? I wish him luck, he, just like Yzerman early on, is at the top of the NHL points nearly every year, but until he makes himself a more complete player, will not win a Championship... ...if you're looking at current players regular season and playoffs combined. For my money Lidstrom, Zetterberg and Datryuk are ALL ranked above Crosby. If you ask him personally, he would probably answer he rather have won the Cup than to be near the top of the scoring list... (at I least I hope he would) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 How is it that your opinion is fact and those of others are biased? It's a value judgment. Crosby will be the best someday... If you have to resort to points per game to award a scoring "title" your reaching... Zetterberg has a superior goal-scoring touch than Crosby, as do about 50 other NHL'ers. Goal scorers can take control of a game more directly and effectively than passers. Zetterberg can be put on the ice in any situation and succeed. Who's the more valuable player? Crosby didn't repeat the magic of the previous year, sure he was injured for part of the year but them's the breaks... Crosby's top 5 on any list and he deserves respect but I wouldn't put him up with 99 and 66 just yet. As for top ten lists, who cares? And I think you just wanted to put Crosby at #1. I don't think Zetterberg has more of a superior goal scoring touch than Crosby to be perfectly honest with you. Just because Crosby plays a pass first kind of game, doesn't mean he doesn't have the touch. Fact is, Crosby has a quicker release than Zetterberg and maybe one of the best releases in the game. Crosby is a better stickhandler, a faster skater, stronger on his feet, and way more tough to get off the puck. Not that I'm knocking Zetterberg either (again, he's my favourite player in the NHL), but this list is based on elite skill level, and Crosby tops the list. Oh, and no I didn't make this just to glorify Crosby and his spot at number 1. I made this list to pretty much show how much it has changed from a year ago or half a year ago. To show that, hey we can have an argument where Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better than the best, whereas not long ago, it'd be arguable to even have Hank and Dats even on this list. I still think that Crosby and Ovechkin are in leagues of their own, and for people to say Zetterberg is better than them does have a biased feel to it. Maybe it's just too surreal to me, I don't know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 1. Ovechkin 2. Crosby 3. Lecavalier 4. Thornton 5. Iginla 6. Heatly 7. Kovalchuk 8. Zetterberg 9. Alfredsson 10. Datsyuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Probert 5 For Fighting 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 1. Zetterberg(And no, he didn't "lead" us to anything, nor did Crosby "not lead" Pitt to anything. It's a damn team game, stop trying to make the argument so narrow-minded) 2. Ovechkin 3. Crosby 4. Datsyuk 5. Malkin 6. Lecavlier 7. Iginla 8. Kovalchuk 9. Heatley 10. Getzlaf I'm not a fan of "ranking" players or any of that arbitrary stuff, so there's just a rough list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Probert 5 For Fighting 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 Crosby is a better stickhandler, a faster skater, stronger on his feet, and way more tough to get off the puck. I'm one of the least biased Wings fan here, and I'm sorry, but I have to call out your claim that Crosby has an equal or better shot than Zetterberg. It's simply not true. And as for being stronger on his feet and tougher with the puck....c'mon. Nobody protects the puck and maneuvers through traffic like Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turretin 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 I'm one of the least biased Wings fan here, and I'm sorry, but I have to call out your claim that Crosby has an equal or better shot than Zetterberg. It's simply not true. And as for being stronger on his feet and tougher with the puck....c'mon. Nobody protects the puck and maneuvers through traffic like Zetterberg or Datsyuk. As for stickhandling and strength on the puck: Datsyuk > Zetterberg > Crosby. In all the hockey I've watched, Datsyuk is a ways beyond the other two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dicksmack 33 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 As for stickhandling and strength on the puck: Datsyuk > Zetterberg > Crosby. In all the hockey I've watched, Datsyuk is a ways beyond the other two. Damn straight, bro... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dicksmack 33 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 1. Zetterberg(And no, he didn't "lead" us to anything, nor did Crosby "not lead" Pitt to anything. It's a damn team game, stop trying to make the argument so narrow-minded) 2. Ovechkin 3. Crosby 4. Datsyuk 5. Malkin 6. Lecavlier 7. Iginla 8. Kovalchuk 9. Heatley 10. Getzlaf I'm not a fan of "ranking" players or any of that arbitrary stuff, so there's just a rough list. Conn Smythe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Probert 5 For Fighting 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 Conn Smythe Smythe: Player judged to be most valuable on his team in the playoffs. Ergo, their best player. Nowhere does it suggest that your best player can carry your team(unless you play in the deadpuck era and your name is Dominik Hasek) because, you see, it's damn near impossible. I've yet to see it. When it does happen, though, I'll let you know. Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Kronwall, Franzen, Rafalski, Osgood and co. had as much to do with it as he did. The bottom line is, trying to seperate Zeta and Crosby based on the TEAMS head-to-head matchup is weak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dicksmack 33 Report post Posted June 19, 2008 Smythe: Player judged to be most valuable on his team in the playoffs. Ergo, their best player. Nowhere does it suggest that your best player can carry your team(unless you play in the deadpuck era and your name is Dominik Hasek) because, you see, it's damn near impossible. I've yet to see it. When it does happen, though, I'll let you know. Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Kronwall, Franzen, Rafalski, Osgood and co. had as much to do with it as he did. The bottom line is, trying to seperate Zeta and Crosby based on the TEAMS head-to-head matchup is weak. I disagree. The other poster was saying that Crosby has won an MVP award; so has Zata, and more recently, and in the post season at that. Zetterberg scored the game-winning goal to win the cup. The goal itself wasn't pretty but Hank made something out of nothing and made a nice play, and drove to the net. The clearest example head-to-head is Zata erasing Crosby's power play goal-mouth gimme (Sid's specialty) on the 5 on 3. You won't see the reverse cuz Sid doesn't play on the pk or as well defensively. And Hell, Datsyuk was more dangerous offensively in the cup final than Crosby was. Right now, I wouldn't say Crosby is the best, the argument for that is weak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 ...Crosby is not the best period. No longer are we in 1980's when you had 2 or 3 superstars and the rest of the league. The league is too good to judge the best, anyone choosing Crosby over Zetterberg or Lidstrom for that matter is watching Vs./NBC/CBC/TSN too much! They are hyping him up because he is North American and very marketable in Canada and The States. But lets look at his goals in the finals, how many of them were superstar creative goals? Most of them were stnading next to the net, depositing a rebound in to the open cage, ala Dino. Zetterberg is more creative, more defensive minded and the more complete player. If he were North American, he'd be on top of all those lists... ...in the very near future, especially with Malkin going to a stinkhole in LA, Zetterberg will be up for a Hart and a Selke at the same time, no doubt eventually winning both! When Crosby is up for a Selke, I'll eat dirty shorts on a hot summer day! ...Pit is trading away their best player, and his name is Evgeni Malkin... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Probert 5 For Fighting 0 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) But lets look at his goals in the finals, how many of them were superstar creative goals? Wow. That might be the worst rhetoric I've ever seen. Edited June 20, 2008 by Probert 5 For Fighting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Wow. That might be the worst rhetoric I've ever seen. ...ok, show me a Crosby goal that wasn't pretty much a slam dunk or a redirect. If you show me one that involves superstar creativy, then I'll show you oceanfront porperty in Nebraska! ...Fillpula's game 2 goal was better than ANY of Crosby's goals the ENTIRE PLAYOFF! ...the redirect goal against Philly was about the best he had all playoff, and that doesn't compare to the indiviual efforts by Franzen, Filpulla and Zetterberg on more than one occasion... Edited June 20, 2008 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Probert 5 For Fighting 0 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 ...ok, show me a Crosby goal that wasn't pretty much a slam dunk or a redirect. If you show me one that involves superstar creativy, then I'll show you oceanfront porperty in Nebraska! ...Fillpula's game 2 goal was better than ANY of Crosby's goals the ENTIRE PLAYOFF! ...the redirect goal against Philly was about the best he had all playoff, and that doesn't compare to the indiviual efforts by Franzen, Filpulla and Zetterberg on more than one occasion... Dude, the way your goals look mean diddlys*** unless you're making a youtube video. I can't believe this need to be pointed out to you. Creative goals are not a superstar trait. Shanahan didn't score 600 goals with ballet slippers on. Hell, I bet you can't name a single "creative" goal Gretzky ever scored - because it's entirely irrelevant. It's stupid. It's so many other negative adjectives I can't think of. One more time, that is awful rhetoric you are using. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MississippiWing 14 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 The Stanley Cup finals aren't played 1 on 1... Crosby played well and lead the playoffs in scoring. I thought Crosby tied the playoff lead in scoring? I like the list but would put Iginla above Malkin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
