Salvador re signs.....Thank God for lilypads!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Andreas Lilja

33years old

6-3, 220lbs

2007-2008

79 games

2 goals

10 points

-2

93 PIM's

2 years, 1.2 mil per

Bryce Salvador

32 years old

6-2, 220lbs

2007-2008

64 games

1 goal

11 points

+12

54 PIM's

4 years, 2.9 mil per

Dis is why Kenny is the man and everyone else is stupid.

[Systemfel 33]

Salvador is a solid second-pairing defenseman, and those generally net 2.5-4 million these days.

Lilja is a third-pairing guy at best.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Systemfel

[edicius 3,269]

Eh, Devils are still gonna suck.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Keep in mind that he was +12 on a team that finished 32 goals in the hole. Lilja finished -2 on a team that finished +73.

I'm not saying that Salvador is worth $2.9, but that isn't that horrible of a contract based on the minutes he puts in on a nightly basis.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Konnan511 1,736]

Keep in mind that he was +12 on a team that finished 32 goals in the hole. Lilja finished -2 on a team that finished +73.

I'm not saying that Salvador is worth $2.9, but that isn't that horrible of a contract based on the minutes he puts in on a nightly basis.

I don't think a lot of people understand this point. Well done!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Keep in mind that he was +12 on a team that finished 32 goals in the hole. Lilja finished -2 on a team that finished +73.

I'm not saying that Salvador is worth $2.9, but that isn't that horrible of a contract based on the minutes he puts in on a nightly basis.

QFT.

It's not exactly comparing apples to apples.

[Majsheppard 203]

Lilja looks like he is going to be with this team as the cheap 6th man for at least two years.

Just as long as he doesn't rape anyone "allegedly" again, I guess I won't complain.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Lilja looks like he is going to be with this team as the cheap 6th man for at least two years.

Just as long as he doesn't rape anyone "allegedly" again, I guess I won't complain.

are you referring to that business in sweden or when he raped the hopes and dreams of wings fans everywhere in game 5 against Anaheim last year

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

are you referring to that business in sweden or when he raped the hopes and dreams of wings fans everywhere in game 5 against Anaheim last year

For the love of God, not this s*** again. In fact, I think I have a picture for it:

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

For the love of God, not this s*** again. In fact, I think I have a picture for it:

oh crap we cannot have jokes made about things that happened

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I don't think a lot of people understand this point. Well done!

Are we all talking about the same Bryce Salvador here? You know, the guy who wasn't that great in St.Louis and isn't that great in New Jersey.

A guy who averages about 10 points per season and is a career -15

The same guy who plays for a team that saw

Johnny Oduya post a +27 and Paul Martin post a +20 last year.

The guy that plays for a stingy Devils team that still had only 2 regular dmen with minus numbers?

You guys act like his +12 is some miraculous number. On the Devils it really isn't. The fact that they don't score or were outscored by 32 goals or whatever doesn't necessarily translate to a +12 means you're a great 2nd pairing guy.

Would any of you pay Bryce Salvador 3 million dollars a year? I guess you guys think he's nearly as good as Kronwall?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Keep in mind that he was +12 on a team that finished 32 goals in the hole. Lilja finished -2 on a team that finished +73.

I'm not saying that Salvador is worth $2.9, but that isn't that horrible of a contract based on the minutes he puts in on a nightly basis.

FYI-he puts in around 19:47 per game.

Mottau played over 20 minutes per game

Colin White played 19:40 per game (I guess he should ask for 2.9 mil)

Andy Green played 19:30

Rachunek 19:23

Oduya 19:01

My point is he isn't playing anymore than the other guys. They rotate their D alot more than the Wings and don't really have a 2nd pairing. They have a 1A first pairing and 2 so-so 2nd/3rd pairings, so it's not like he's so much better than the 5-6 or 7 guys. Which in GS&T speak means, the guy ain't no ******* 2nd pairing guy. He's a 3rd pairing guy on most teams and would find it hard to crack our lineup.

2.9 million is crazy.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Lilja is by no means an awesome player, but he's a ******* bargain for what he does bring. We pay the guy a little over a mil and everyone around here expects him to become the second coming of Lidstrom..

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

oh crap we cannot have jokes made about things that happened

No, we can....its just that we've heard this one a million times, and that loss was no more his fault than a poor penalty or a failed clearing attempt.

That's my point.

[Opie 308]

No, we can....its just that we've heard this one a million times, and that loss was no more his fault than a poor penalty or a failed clearing attempt.

That's my point.

That and nothing in the original post made me think he was kidding!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

FYI-he puts in around 19:47 per game.

Mottau played over 20 minutes per game

Colin White played 19:40 per game (I guess he should ask for 2.9 mil)

Andy Green played 19:30

Rachunek 19:23

Oduya 19:01

My point is he isn't playing anymore than the other guys. They rotate their D alot more than the Wings and don't really have a 2nd pairing. They have a 1A first pairing and 2 so-so 2nd/3rd pairings, so it's not like he's so much better than the 5-6 or 7 guys. Which in GS&T speak means, the guy ain't no ******* 2nd pairing guy. He's a 3rd pairing guy on most teams and would find it hard to crack our lineup.

2.9 million is crazy.

Just because they rotate their D more doesn't make him any more of a third pairing guy than a first pairing guy on the Devils. If their game plan is to rotate D on a balanced system, than all their Dmen should be making about that amount. $2.9 is not overpayment for Bryce and Lilja is not a fair comparison to him.

Edit: (Kelsey) Grammar

Edited July 1, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[YoungGuns1340 1]

oh crap we cannot have jokes made about things that happened

Lilja also scored the only goal. I'd say the folks that raped our hopes were the ones that were nowhere to be found on the scoresheet. But I digress..

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Just because they rotate their D more doesn't make him any more of a third pairing guy than a first pairing guy on the Devils. If their game plan is to rotate D on a balanced system, than all their Dmen should be making about that amount. $2.9 is not overpayment for Bryce and Lilja is not a fair comparison to him.

Edit: (Kelsey) Grammar

Okay, so you tell me, is Bryce Salvador more of a 3rd pairing NHL level defensman or a 1st pairing guy?

Would you want him on your first pairing, whatever team you happened to root for?

I'm gonna venture a crazy guess here and say no.

IMO, this is nuts. Are people so intent on winning arguments that they would have us believe that on this planet Bryce Salvador is a top pairing guy? He isn't even on the Devils top pair. He isn't a top pairing guy. He's really not even a 2nd pairing guy on most NHL teams.

He's not particularly good at anything. He's a decent 5-6 guy. And IMO you don't pay a guy with Bryce Salvador's ability 3 million dollars.

Or is that the world we live in now?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Just because they rotate their D more doesn't make him any more of a third pairing guy than a first pairing guy on the Devils. If their game plan is to rotate D on a balanced system, than all their Dmen should be making about that amount. $2.9 is not overpayment for Bryce and Lilja is not a fair comparison to him.

Edit: (Kelsey) Grammar

Please explain why Lilja is not a good comparison?

They are the same type of player with the same type of ability. Is it your contention that b/c Savlador plays more minutes for the Devils than Lilja plays for the Wings that they are not comparable players?

Forget what teams they play for. Look at them as players. They are very similar in what they bring. 2.9 is serious overpayment. Lilja you could almost call underpayment since the guy can play an entire season and play in the Cup finals and you can have him for almost 1/3 Salvador's salary.

Seriously NFM you are telling me Bryce Salvador is a 3 million dollar player? Is that on every team in the league? I mean it should be right? He's worth 3 million, he's a 3 million dollar per year NHL dman. Is that what you are telling me?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Just because they rotate their D more doesn't make him any more of a third pairing guy than a first pairing guy on the Devils. If their game plan is to rotate D on a balanced system, than all their Dmen should be making about that amount. $2.9 is not overpayment for Bryce and Lilja is not a fair comparison to him.

Edit: (Kelsey) Grammar

FYI-Salvador made 1.5 mil last season when Lilja made 1 mil.

IMO, they are 2 similar type of players. They are big, physical (although Salvador has got more of a nasty edge to him), Lily I would say is better with the puck, they both cannot carry the puck and pretty much provide little offense. In a nutshell they are your prototypical stay-at-home dmen.

So lily gets a raise to what 1.2 or 1.4 mil and Salvador gets a raise to 2.9, double his last year's salary?

Can anybody explain to me what Salvador did last year that was so great he deserved double the salary to 2.9 mil?

Anybody watch the Devs alot? Did they watch the playoffs? Was Salvador awesome or something?

Oh, by the way, when it came to playoff time, Salvador was 5th on the Devs dmen for ice time behind

Martin

Mottau

Oduya

White

Salvador----that would be 5th at 17:55, even fewer minutes than he played in the regular season.

Something doesn't jive here.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Sorry for not getting back to you quicker. I took off for lunch and just now read the novel you left me.

I'll address the first reply you gave me first and then finish with the other two to keep my post from being too long.

Okay, so you tell me, is Bryce Salvador more of a 3rd pairing NHL level defensman or a 1st pairing guy?

Neither, he's a solid second pairing guy, which is what I stated.

Would you want him on your first pairing, whatever team you happened to root for?

I'm gonna venture a crazy guess here and say no.

Of course not, and I never once implied that would.

I'll address the first reply you gave me first and then finish with the other two to keep my post from being too long.

IMO, this is nuts. Are people so intent on winning arguments that they would have us believe that on this planet Bryce Salvador is a top pairing guy? He isn't even on the Devils top pair. He isn't a top pairing guy. He's really not even a 2nd pairing guy on most NHL teams.

Once again, I never said that he was.

He's not particularly good at anything. He's a decent 5-6 guy. And IMO you don't pay a guy with Bryce Salvador's ability 3 million dollars.

Or is that the world we live in now?

Based on what? Those stats that you posted in the initial thread? GS&T, you know there's a lot more to a salary than the points a guy puts up. Salvador is a hard-hitting, tough defenseman to play against, espeically in the corners. He doesnt' shy away from contact and makes his opponents keep their head up when leaving their own zone.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Sorry for not getting back to you quicker. I took off for lunch and just now read the novel you left me.

I'll address the first reply you gave me first and then finish with the other two to keep my post from being too long.

Neither, he's a solid second pairing guy, which is what I stated.

Of course not, and I never once implied that would.

I'll address the first reply you gave me first and then finish with the other two to keep my post from being too long.

Once again, I never said that he was.

Based on what? Those stats that you posted in the initial thread? GS&T, you know there's a lot more to a salary than the points a guy puts up. Salvador is a hard-hitting, tough defenseman to play against, espeically in the corners. He doesnt' shy away from contact and makes his opponents keep their head up when leaving their own zone.

Yes, he's a hard hitting, tough player. But he's also weak in alot of areas, in not very good with the puck, doesn't have a great shot, can't carry the puck and is basically a stay at home player.

Is that the going rate for a player of his ilk? 3 milliion?

Can you explain why he got double the salary? What did he do all of a sudden to take him from a 1.5 to 2.9?

We all watched him with St.Louis. He was terrible. The only noticeable thing he ever did was try to pick fights on us after Jackman, Low, Mayers, Drake, Hinote, Walker and everyone else on the Blues got kicked out of the game for trying to pick fights with us.

And his playoff ice time decreased by 2 MINUTES! The other 4 guys above him all played over 20 minutes per night in the playoffs, he played under 18:00. They cut his ice time in the crucial part of the season and then gave him a raise? Doesn't make sense to me.

Like I said, his playoff ice time, along with that of his regular season ice time and overall contributions on the ice put him squarely as a #5 defenseman, maybe even 6. Luckily for him the Devs are so s***ty on D he actually can play as much as he does.

Oh well, its not a big deal. I like his style as a player. I just don't think he's worth anywhere near that kind of bank. I've seen him play plenty of hockey and he's not that good. I think he's a decent 3rd pairing guy worthy of 3rd pairing money. Frankly, i'm shocked by his contract and don't think he's worth more than 1.8-2.0 mil on any other team in the league.

At least we don't have to pay him!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Please explain why Lilja is not a good comparison?

Lilja isn't a good comparison because he plays bottom pairing minutes against the oppositions' bottom lines. Salvador plays mid to top lines night-in and night-out. If we're going to compare Lilja to Salvador, their +/- speaks volumes.

They are the same type of player with the same type of ability.

I completely disagree. See my post above this one.

Is it your contention that b/c Savlador plays more minutes for the Devils than Lilja plays for the Wings that they are not comparable players?

Absolutely not. My contention is that Salvador played the majority of his season on a vastly inferior defensive team than the Wings, against better lines and finished with a better +/- than Lilja.

Forget what teams they play for. Look at them as players. They are very similar in what they bring. 2.9 is serious overpayment. Lilja you could almost call underpayment since the guy can play an entire season and play in the Cup finals and you can have him for almost 1/3 Salvador's salary.

If you eliminate Lilja's mistakes, plus what he probably could make on the open market 1.2 is underpayment for Lilja. Salvador may be overpaid slightly, but IMO it isn't as ridiculous as you seem to think it is.

Also, lets not exaggerate about 1/3 of Salvador's salary being equal to Lilja's. It's closer to 1/2 than it is to 1/3.

Seriously NFM you are telling me Bryce Salvador is a 3 million dollar player? Is that on every team in the league? I mean it should be right? He's worth 3 million, he's a 3 million dollar per year NHL dman. Is that what you are telling me?

First of all, he's not a $3 million player, he's a $2.9 million dollar player. Yes, he's slightly overpaid, but when you factor in more than just stats, his salary isn't that ridiculous.

It's no different than people on the outside who looks at Drapers' numbers and wonder what the hell Kenny was thinking when he signed him to that deal some years ago. We all know what Draper brings to the table, because we see it every day. If you just look at Salvador's stats, it obviously makes you think otherwise, but if you watch him play his salary isn't too inflated.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

FYI-Salvador made 1.5 mil last season when Lilja made 1 mil.

IMO, they are 2 similar type of players. They are big, physical (although Salvador has got more of a nasty edge to him), Lily I would say is better with the puck, they both cannot carry the puck and pretty much provide little offense. In a nutshell they are your prototypical stay-at-home dmen.

So lily gets a raise to what 1.2 or 1.4 mil and Salvador gets a raise to 2.9, double his last year's salary?

Can anybody explain to me what Salvador did last year that was so great he deserved double the salary to 2.9 mil?

Anybody watch the Devs alot? Did they watch the playoffs? Was Salvador awesome or something?

Oh, by the way, when it came to playoff time, Salvador was 5th on the Devs dmen for ice time behind

Martin

Mottau

Oduya

White

Salvador----that would be 5th at 17:55, even fewer minutes than he played in the regular season.

Something doesn't jive here.

To summarize my response to this whole post, I am again stating that Bryce is a tougher Dman to play against, plays against the oppositions better lines, and takes a hit (which Lilja 99.9% of the time shies away from).

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yes, he's a hard hitting, tough player. But he's also weak in alot of areas, in not very good with the puck, doesn't have a great shot, can't carry the puck and is basically a stay at home player.

Is that the going rate for a player of his ilk? 3 milliion?

Can you explain why he got double the salary? What did he do all of a sudden to take him from a 1.5 to 2.9?

We all watched him with St.Louis. He was terrible. The only noticeable thing he ever did was try to pick fights on us after Jackman, Low, Mayers, Drake, Hinote, Walker and everyone else on the Blues got kicked out of the game for trying to pick fights with us.

And his playoff ice time decreased by 2 MINUTES! The other 4 guys above him all played over 20 minutes per night in the playoffs, he played under 18:00. They cut his ice time in the crucial part of the season and then gave him a raise? Doesn't make sense to me.

Like I said, his playoff ice time, along with that of his regular season ice time and overall contributions on the ice put him squarely as a #5 defenseman, maybe even 6. Luckily for him the Devs are so s***ty on D he actually can play as much as he does.

Oh well, its not a big deal. I like his style as a player. I just don't think he's worth anywhere near that kind of bank. I've seen him play plenty of hockey and he's not that good. I think he's a decent 3rd pairing guy worthy of 3rd pairing money. Frankly, i'm shocked by his contract and don't think he's worth more than 1.8-2.0 mil on any other team in the league.

At least we don't have to pay him!

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said here. The only thing I take issue with is using Lilja as a reference point for salary, because I think there is a decent gap between the two. Yes Salvador's icetime decreased in the playoffs, but consider Lilja, who was a healthy scratch for half the playoffs. And when he did play he averaged about 12 minutes a game instead of the 18 he played in the regular season.

He's a 7th D-man, at best.

As for Salvador being overpaid, I agree, that is quite a raise. It sounds like he'll be 2nd pairing next year in Jersey, which I guess justifies the salary a bit, but still. Though I generally think D-men get paid a premium (outside of Detroit anyway).