Salary Cap Predicament

[miller76 463]

I guess the Filppula signing and the desire to read and acquire as much information about the deal as I possibly could, got me thinking. Does this deal for this amount, and this type of cap hit put the team in a slight predicament? Don't get me wrong. I have been in favor of getting him signed all Summer. I think it's a good deal for both sides. I agree it's a little steep at the moment, but I think the signing will benefit the team years to come.

I understand and read a good amount of posts on the pinned Flip signing here in GD. And as the thread went further along into trade talk of less popular players to fit maybe the role players such as Mac, Downey, and Cheli. I kind of wanted a thread about, being pretty set as a team already, with tying up a few loose ends here and there.

I know hockeybuzz is typically rumor, and Eklund is nothing more than a place where rumors are sent in hopes of being spread. I don't know a whole lot about Mark Spizzirri, but the article that is pasted here http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16378 kind of got me thinking. Forgive the article topic of the signing of Flip. But the lower end of the article talks a little bit about making a trade to stay under the cap just prior to the start of the season.

My questions:

1. The article names Samuelsson as a possibility. Does the team/organization feel the same way about him as many of the fans of this team do? And will he be traded?

2. I feel it is unlikely that Lilja would go. I get the feeling the team/organization feel a lot different about him as a player and his talent, then do the fans. What do you think?

3. It seems as if all that is left to do this summer, is sign the role players. Is it likely the team will do anything else notable about getting someone else good but cheap who wants to win? I guess there a few notables still out there, that are UFA's under a mil. (imo) I would rather pick another forward to throw on the 3 or 4 line and pay him Cheli's mil or less. Hell Stu Barnes only made 900G last year. He's a UFA. And I am not saying Stu is the guy, but I wonder if decent talent that is unsigned out there, and isn't expecting more than a million, an ton of ice time, would be interested in coming to Detroit.

Here's Detroits picture, for the folks that don't know who makes what: http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DET&season=0708

[redwinger4747 6]

I guess the Filppula signing and the desire to read and acquire as much information about the deal as I possibly could, got me thinking. Does this deal for this amount, and this type of cap hit put the team in a slight predicament? Don't get me wrong. I have been in favor of getting him signed all Summer. I think it's a good deal for both sides. I agree it's a little steep at the moment, but I think the signing will benefit the team years to come.

I understand and read a good amount of posts on the pinned Flip signing here in GD. And as the thread went further along into trade talk of less popular players to fit maybe the role players such as Mac, Downey, and Cheli. I kind of wanted a thread about, being pretty set as a team already, with tying up a few loose ends here and there.

I know hockeybuzz is typically rumor, and Eklund is nothing more than a place where rumors are sent in hopes of being spread. I don't know a whole lot about Mark Spizzirri, but the article that is pasted here http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16378 kind of got me thinking. Forgive the article topic of the signing of Flip. But the lower end of the article talks a little bit about making a trade to stay under the cap just prior to the start of the season.

My questions:

1. The article names Samuelsson as a possibility. Does the team/organization feel the same way about him as many of the fans of this team do? And will he be traded?

2. I feel it is unlikely that Lilja would go. I get the feeling the team/organization feel a lot different about him as a player and his talent, then do the fans. What do you think?

3. It seems as if all that is left to do this summer, is sign the role players. Is it likely the team will do anything else notable about getting someone else good but cheap who wants to win? I guess there a few notables still out there, that are UFA's under a mil. (imo) I would rather pick another forward to throw on the 3 or 4 line and pay him Cheli's mil or less. Hell Stu Barnes only made 900G last year. He's a UFA. And I am not saying Stu is the guy, but I wonder if decent talent that is unsigned out there, and isn't expecting more than a million, an ton of ice time, would be interested in coming to Detroit.

Here's Detroits picture, for the folks that don't know who makes what: http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DET&season=0708

1. I highly doubt Sammy will be traded

2. Lilja is a real possibility to be traded, see below.

3. Now lets take a look at our situation:

12 forwards: Dats, Z, Hossa, Homer, Franzen, Cleary, Flip, Hulder, Draper, Maltby, Sammy, Kopecky = 30.923 mil

7 defenseman: Lids, Rafa, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja, Lebda, Meech = 22.583 mil

2 goalies: Ozzie, Conklin = 2.167

GRAND TOTAL = 55.673 mil

CAP SPACE = 1.027 mil

Now we need an 8th defenseman and have several options. My bet is we send Ericsson down which then narrows our options down to three. 1) Trade Quincey to keep Lilja & Cheli. 2) Trade Lilja to keep Quincey & Cheli. 3) Let Cheli go to keep Quincey & Lilja. Any of these options will be possible with only 500k spent to sign Quincey or Cheli, or both if we move Lilja.

Now, our only other need is a 13th forward, my bet is Leino wins it since Helm can be sent down and they will like Leino better than Mac/Downey. Does anyone know Leino's base salary? So that gives us Helm and Downey and/or Mac as 14, 15/16 forward spots, however they are ordered. If Leino makes more than 500k, it will be better for us to move Lilja, since he makes 1.25 mil. Otherwise we are fine with any of those D-man options.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

I honestly see the writing on the wall for Lilja.. Holland went out and called him an Insurance police earlier in the year.. and also his salary makes it possible to sign those 2 other min-league we may need or want more then a #7 d-man

[wingsdiehard13 33]

1. I highly doubt Sammy will be traded

2. Lilja is a real possibility to be traded, see below.

3. Now lets take a look at our situation:

12 forwards: Dats, Z, Hossa, Homer, Franzen, Cleary, Flip, Hulder, Draper, Maltby, Sammy, Kopecky = 30.923 mil

7 defenseman: Lids, Rafa, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja, Lebda, Meech = 22.583 mil

2 goalies: Ozzie, Conklin = 2.167

GRAND TOTAL = 55.673 mil

CAP SPACE = 1.027 mil

Now we need an 8th defenseman and have several options. My bet is we send Ericsson down which then narrows our options down to three. 1) Trade Quincey to keep Lilja & Cheli. 2) Trade Lilja to keep Quincey & Cheli. 3) Let Cheli go to keep Quincey & Lilja. Any of these options will be possible with only 500k spent to sign Quincey or Cheli, or both if we move Lilja.

Now, our only other need is a 13th forward, my bet is Leino wins it since Helm can be sent down and they will like Leino better than Mac/Downey. Does anyone know Leino's base salary? So that gives us Helm and Downey and/or Mac as 14, 15/16 forward spots, however they are ordered. If Leino makes more than 500k, it will be better for us to move Lilja, since he makes 1.25 mil. Otherwise we are fine with any of those D-man options.

To answer your question, 850K, I believe.

Edit: FinRedWing is correct. My bad.

Edited July 31, 2008 by wingsdiehard13

[FinRedWing 172]

Does anyone know Leino's base salary?

From the great LGW salary chart: $875,000.

[redwinger4747 6]

From the great LGW salary chart: $875,000.

Okay, so if we assume Leino wins the 13th forward position, they send Ericsson and Helm to GR, and are stubborn on keeping Cheli, moving Lilja really solves all of our problems. I hope we do that

[miller76 463]

Okay, so if we assume Leino wins the 13th forward position, they send Ericsson and Helm to GR, and are stubborn on keeping Cheli, moving Lilja really solves all of our problems. I hope we do that

It's not that I disagree with you, but it seems Lilja receives nothing but praise from KH and the team for his play. I just have a hard time believing he goes anywhere. I believe KH and the coaching staff know what to expect from lilja, rather than gamble with some of these others that are unproven. But then again that's why they hold training camp each year.

[wingsdiehard13 33]

Not that I want to see this, but I think Hudler could be the one to go...

[Doggy 130]

I thought only active players counted against the cap. That is, the cap numbers of players like Leino, Chelios, McCarty, Downey etc. will only be prorated against the cap for the time they are on the active roster.

As it stands Leino's $875k - doesn't count. Neither will Mac's or Downey's if they are in GR which is very likely.

[wingsdiehard13 33]

I thought only active players counted against the cap. That is, the cap numbers of players like Leino, Chelios, McCarty, Downey etc. will only be prorated against the cap for the time they are on the active roster.

As it stands Leino's $875k - doesn't count. Neither will Mac's or Downey's if they are in GR which is very likely.

QFT

[octopusonice 0]

You know your team is in good shape roster-wise when the only thing left to talk about is who the will fill out the roster and play for basically league minimum.

[IrishWing19 6]

Okay, so if we assume Leino wins the 13th forward position, they send Ericsson and Helm to GR, and are stubborn on keeping Cheli, moving Lilja really solves all of our problems. I hope we do that

Trading Lilja will solve our immediate problems but could create longterm ones. A sign and trade is not good business, Detroit gets a lot of good will, and hometown discounts, that will disappear pretty quick if Lilja gets traded before the deadline.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Lebda's name as a possible trade? Given that guys like Meech and Quincey are probably NHL ready, do the Wings really need him anymore? As was my understanding, the only reason Lebda was even brought here in the first place was to fill that role until one of those two were ready (they originally brought in Andy Delmore as that guy, but he was so terrible defensivily that things didn't work out).

As for Samuelsson, he won't be traded. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see him given a contract extension at the end of the season. Babcock can't say enough good things about the guy (for whatever reason), and unlike others (Hudler, Lilja, etc.), I've never seen Samuelsson once punished for bad play. Maybe I'm missing something, but Babcock sure seems to hold a spot for him, no matter what.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Lebda's name as a possible trade? Given that guys like Meech and Quincey are probably NHL ready, do the Wings really need him anymore? As was my understanding, the only reason Lebda was even brought here in the first place was to fill that role until one of those two were ready (they originally brought in Andy Delmore as that guy, but he was so terrible defensivily that things didn't work out).

As for Samuelsson, he won't be traded. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see him given a contract extension at the end of the season. Babcock can't say enough good things about the guy (for whatever reason), and unlike others (Hudler, Lilja, etc.), I've never seen Samuelsson once punished for bad play. Maybe I'm missing something, but Babcock sure seems to hold a spot for him, no matter what.

here it is

here is the right answer

after watching the SCF through again on Hulutv.com though I don't think there was ever one shift where lilja-lebda didn't get worked off the puck deep in their own zone.

[P. Marlowe 748]

Not that I want to see this, but I think Hudler could be the one to go...

Are you saying that Wings should have 12 forwards and 9 defencemen in their roster?

I will be a bit sad after whoever gets traded. I think Chelios retiring would make me least sad because he's already had a wonderful career. He'd go out at as close to the top as he propably ever again will be. Wings might win more cups, but he's playing time will most likely only decrease.

If this happens Wings could have 13 forwards and 8 defencemen.

[egroen 384]

The only way Lilja is traded is if he requests it - and that is only if he is clearly outplayed in training camp and is not in the top 6.

Samuelsson is too much of a good value at his salary and Babcock just seems to love him.

Trading Hudler would be a pretty dumb move at his current salary as well. Both these guys are pretty important to the second power play unit, as well.

One of Meech/Lebda/Quincey will be traded or lost through waivers -- in the most likely event.

[Matt 1,049]

Here's Detroits picture, for the folks that don't know who makes what: http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DET&season=0708

The numbers there for the 2008-09 season are not completely accurate. Hossa's salary is off by $50,000 and to get an accurate stance on where the Wings stand NOW, with players that are required to be on the NHL roster (unless they're waived/traded/etc.) doesn't include Jonathan Ericsson against the cap.

Not tooting my own horn here, but the Salary Chart here on the site (you can go directly to it by clicking on the link right here or by the "Salary Chart" menu item at the top of every page) gives you the most accurate assessment of the Wings' cap situation without speculating who will be on the final roster. Helm could be on it, Ericsson could be on it -- but we won't know that until October.

Right now the Red Wings have $976,667 left under the $56.7-million upper ceiling, with 21 people set on the NHL roster. That leaves two spots open right now.

[rick zombo 3,739]

ahhhhhh what a difference a year makes eh?

[miller76 463]

The numbers there for the 2008-09 season are not completely accurate. Hossa's salary is off by $50,000 and to get an accurate stance on where the Wings stand NOW, with players that are required to be on the NHL roster (unless they're waived/traded/etc.) doesn't include Jonathan Ericsson against the cap.

Not tooting my own horn here, but the Salary Chart here on the site (you can go directly to it by clicking on the link right here or by the "Salary Chart" menu item at the top of every page) gives you the most accurate assessment of the Wings' cap situation without speculating who will be on the final roster. Helm could be on it, Ericsson could be on it -- but we won't know that until October.

Right now the Red Wings have $976,667 left under the $56.7-million upper ceiling, with 21 people set on the NHL roster. That leaves two spots open right now.

Thanks Matt. I kind of messed up the direct link anyways. Putting the link for the 07-08 season. But I was a little curious at why some names on there were shaded. And why the Hossa number was off from I previously heard he would be paid.

edit:sp

Edited July 31, 2008 by miller76