Vermette re-signs 2 yr/$2.5 million

[chrisdetroit 189]

And Filppulas role was what? An offensive anchor? The role you described for Vermette last year was identical to his role with the Wings this year. 30 points is not great for a third liner. Its great for a 4th liner. 30 points is run of the mill for a third liner, which is basically the role Filppula was playing last year.

And Smolinski and Comrie "displacing" Vermette speaks more to Vermette's inabilities (at the time, not now) than depth. Comrie and Smolinski barely hovered about a .5 PPG rate with the Sens. Thats hardly tough competition for a guy that is supposedly clearly the better player than Filppula, who at 23/24 nearly broke 20 goals, 40 points.

And again, just to drive the point home, I dont think either players are going to be strong offensive producers throughout their careers..

Really? Flip put up 17 points in his rookie year and 36 points in his second year. Everything indicates that he has talent and potential. I'm not sure how you can say that after only 2 years.

Zetterburg put up 43 points in his second year. I'm not saying that Flip is the next Zetterburg but the kid does have the potential to be a top notch scorer throughout his career and his scoring in his second year was not that much less than what Henrik did in his second year.

[norrisnick 1]

Really? Flip put up 17 points in his rookie year and 36 points in his second year. Everything indicates that he has talent and potential. I'm not sure how you can say that after only 2 years.

Zetterburg put up 43 points in his second year. I'm not saying that Flip is the next Zetterburg but the kid does have the potential to be a top notch scorer throughout his career and his scoring in his second year was not that much less than what Henrik did in his second year.

In 61 games. Pre-lockout. There is a vast difference in their offensive potential.

[chrisdetroit 189]

For the long-term Filppula's contract is great.

The problem is that we need cap space next season not 4-5 years from now. It wouldn't have been at all unreasonable to assume that in two years and playing behind all the talent we have this season and might be able to hang on to for next season that by 2011 Fil still wouldn't have been much more than a $3M/yr player. Val isn't going to be a 2nd liner next season.

This was a gamble Kenny didn't have to make unlike with Nik and not having any top 4 defensemen on the horizon at the time.

Huh? How did you come up with that gem. Our top 6 forwards will be

Z, Pavs, Hossa, Mule, Homer and Flip

Who plays with whom is debatable but if Flip isn't in the top 6, who is? Sammy? Hudler? Cleary?

No... Flip will play on the 2nd line all year. I don't think that's even debatable.

[chrisdetroit 189]

In 61 games. Pre-lockout. There is a vast difference in their offensive potential.

We will see at the end of the year. I expect him to play on the 2nd line all year with Pavs and there are going to be sme pucks going into the net.

[chrisdetroit 189]

http://senators.nhl.com/team/app?articleid...mp;service=page

Antoine Vermette signed a $2.5 million deal for two years, according to nhlpa.com. This is a good deal for a guy with plenty of experience, 53 points last season (24-29-53), great on face-offs (6th best in league), and a regular penalty killer.

This makes me think of Filppula's deal. They're comparable- young, second-line centers; but Vermette is, lets be honest, the better hockey player. At least now. And he's counting for half a million less against the cap. If they were getting paid the same, ok, you could argue that Filppula is better in the playoffs so it's justified. This deal has made me slightly less comfortable with our deal, and I hope Filppula plays next season like his contract says he should.

Everybody seems to be missing the fact that Flip is NOT making $3mil next year. It is an AVERAGE per year. From M-live

he'll earn $2 million this season, $2.5 million in 2009-10 and $3.5 million in each of the final three years

Anybody that doesn't think that he's worth $2mil next year is on drugs....

[norrisnick 1]

Huh? How did you come up with that gem. Our top 6 forwards will be

Z, Pavs, Hossa, Mule, Homer and Flip

Who plays with whom is debatable but if Flip isn't in the top 6, who is? Sammy? Hudler? Cleary?

No... Flip will play on the 2nd line all year. I don't think that's even debatable.

Yes. The other two will be centered by Fil on the 3rd.

[norrisnick 1]

Everybody seems to be missing the fact that Flip is NOT making $3mil next year. It is an AVERAGE per year. From M-live

he'll earn $2 million this season, $2.5 million in 2009-10 and $3.5 million in each of the final three years

Anybody that doesn't think that he's worth $2mil next year is on drugs....

The salary is irrelevant. It's all about the cap hit.

[DreamsofHope 2]

Yes. The other two will be centered by Fil on the 3rd.

When you say Yes Norrisnick, are you being sarcastic or serious? Do you really think Flip is going to center the 3rd line? And if you do I am interested in hearing what your reasoning is for this, and what would be the general strategy of our line combos, as we wouldn't have a Checking Line + Grinding Line.

I am not writing this to say you are wrong... more curious than anything.

[chrisdetroit 189]

When you say Yes Norrisnick, are you being sarcastic or serious? Do you really think Flip is going to center the 3rd line? And if you do I am interested in hearing what your reasoning is for this, and what would be the general strategy of our line combos, as we wouldn't have a Checking Line + Grinding Line.

I am not writing this to say you are wrong... more curious than anything.

I can't believe that we are even discussing this. Flip is on the 2nd line. Period. This has been stated by Babs, Kenny, etc as a fact. I'll dig up the quotes...

[chrisdetroit 189]

Yes. The other two will be centered by Fil on the 3rd.

From M-Live

Filppula, the club's second-line center, had 19 goals and 17 assists in 78 games last season

[chrisdetroit 189]

The salary is irrelevant. It's all about the cap hit.

It is irrelevant to the cap but not to his worth. Many people on here seem to think that he is not woth 3mil this year. Well, he's not making 3 mil this year.

[norrisnick 1]

When you say Yes Norrisnick, are you being sarcastic or serious? Do you really think Flip is going to center the 3rd line? And if you do I am interested in hearing what your reasoning is for this, and what would be the general strategy of our line combos, as we wouldn't have a Checking Line + Grinding Line.

I am not writing this to say you are wrong... more curious than anything.

Dead serious.

Since he's been here Babcock has tried to do everything in his power to split up Zetterberg and Datsyuk and have them center their own lines. We've never had potent enough wingers to really make it viable until now with Hossa and the emergence of Franzen.

So you've got Z and Pavel centering their own lines. For the sake of balance one gets Hossa and the other Franzen. Babcock sees Franzen and Holmstrom as somewhat interchangeable net-front guys so Holmstrom slips to the wing opposite Hossa. For the sake of argument lets say the top 5 shake out like this.

Holmstrom - Datsyuk - Hossa

Franzen - Zetterberg - XXXXX

Now for a top 6 role we've got Filppula, Hudler, Cleary, and Samuelsson. One of those will take up the 2nd winger spot on the Z line. If you go backwards and think about what that leaves you. You've got 3 guys left that could form a potent line themselves. Filppula is obviously the top choice for centering a line out of those 4, so you bump one of the others up. My hunch is Sammy as he's shown chemistry with Franzen and Z in the past and because Cleary and Hudler have been solid wingers for Filppula in the past.

Holmstrom - Datsyuk - Hossa

Franzen - Zetterberg - Samuelsson

Hudler - Filppula - Cleary

Great strength down the middle. Two 1st lines. A 3rd that's as good as most 2nd lines. AND that leaves us with the ace in the hole checking line of Maltby - Draper - Kopecky as our 4th which would be the 3rd on most other teams.

All four lines can be tossed out against any opposing line defensively. That's the strategy.

[Chaldean 0]

Can somebody please tell me where we are at with the cap now? How much room do we have?

[Doggy 130]

Can somebody please tell me where we are at with the cap now? How much room do we have?

Look at one of the two cap threads. Or you could click the salary chart at the top of the page.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Filppula has been up and down the lineup. He spent a lot of time on the first and especially the second lines. He's not out there to shut down stars.

Smolinski was above .5 and Comrie was at about .6.

.5 and .6 are still mediocre numbers on an offensively-inclined squad.

And Filppula did not spend a lot of time on the first line. In case you didn't notice, when he was playing with Hank and Datsyuk, its in a shutdown role. He ranks 6th in TOI in offensive/semi-offensive ice time. If he were even anchoring the 2nd line, he'd be seeing more than barely top 6 ice time not including SHTOI.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

From M-Live

Filppula, the club's second-line center, had 19 goals and 17 assists in 78 games last season

That means nothing.

Holland's top priority is signing No. 4 defenseman Brad Stuart. He earned $3.5 million this past season and could get more money on the open market. But to remain in Detroit, he undoubtedly would have to take less.

Is that why he signed for an average of $3.75M?

Mlive doesn't know all.

Edited August 3, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Really? Flip put up 17 points in his rookie year and 36 points in his second year. Everything indicates that he has talent and potential. I'm not sure how you can say that after only 2 years.

Zetterburg put up 43 points in his second year. I'm not saying that Flip is the next Zetterburg but the kid does have the potential to be a top notch scorer throughout his career and his scoring in his second year was not that much less than what Henrik did in his second year.

Zetterberg put up 44 points as a rookie. Filppula put up 17.

Zetterberg was on pace to put up 55 points in his second year through 78 games, in an era when 55 points was good enough to make him 46th in points among forwards, and he underwent a sizeable injury/recovery period. Filppula through 78 games, put up 36 points, in an era where 55 points only gets you 71st in points among forwards, and he did all this without a single major injury all year.

Basically, in order for Filppula to have had a comparable 2nd year when games played and the old era vs new era of hockey are taken into account, he would've had to have put up 65 points - good enough for 46th overall - nearly 30 points fewer than he actually did.

Edit: And not to nitpick...but how do you not know how to spell Zetterberg?

Edited August 3, 2008 by YoungGuns1340