Vermette re-signs 2 yr/$2.5 million

[Earthhuman 8]

http://senators.nhl.com/team/app?articleid...mp;service=page

Antoine Vermette signed a $2.5 million deal for two years, according to nhlpa.com. This is a good deal for a guy with plenty of experience, 53 points last season (24-29-53), great on face-offs (6th best in league), and a regular penalty killer.

This makes me think of Filppula's deal. They're comparable- young, second-line centers; but Vermette is, lets be honest, the better hockey player. At least now. And he's counting for half a million less against the cap. If they were getting paid the same, ok, you could argue that Filppula is better in the playoffs so it's justified. This deal has made me slightly less comfortable with our deal, and I hope Filppula plays next season like his contract says he should.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

yah but itll suck when Vermotte netts 30 goals his contract year and demands 5 mill + the next season ..

Fil's contract maybe overpay him a .5 mill for like a year but will def. be a steal in 2 yrs

[Heaton 1]

yah but itll suck when Vermotte netts 30 goals his contract year and demands 5 mill + the next season ..

Fil's contract maybe overpay him a .5 mill for like a year but will def. be a steal in 2 yrs

Exactly. Holland knew on a two year deal Filppula would've gotten 1.5m from an arbitrator. Vermette wans't going to sign a 5 year deal because he knew that in a few years someone on the open market will pay him a ton more.

[stud_defenseman 1]

It sure is a bit of a gamble, but Holland's track record as of late has been pretty good. Keep in mind, this isn't just Holland's doing, everyone around him knows what skill looks like and they have surely been informing Holland on Flip's potential. The same goes for the signing of Kronwall. TBH I didn't think he was going to be such a great player, but now I see Kronner as being our #1 guy once Lids retires. Flip looks decent to us fans, but most of us are probably ignorant to many of the small things that are the true indicators of his potential skill level.

I expect him to slowly but gradually increase his skill and productivity throughout his career, eventually nearing the 70 pt range.

[stud_defenseman 1]

Exactly. Holland knew on a two year deal Filppula would've gotten 1.5m from an arbitrator. Vermette wans't going to sign a 5 year deal because he knew that in a few years someone on the open market will pay him a ton more.

Still, with that extra 1.5 million that could have been what we needed to get Hossa signed next year. Then if the cap went up again we still probably could afford to pay Filppula when his contract comes due.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Still, with that extra 1.5 million that could have been what we needed to get Hossa signed next year. Then if the cap went up again we still probably could afford to pay Filppula when his contract comes due.

If it comes down to $1.5 million being the difference between getting Hossa and letting him walk, Holland will make it work.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

If it comes down to $1.5 million being the difference between getting Hossa and letting him walk, Holland will make it work.

Pretty much.

And there is no comparison. If Vermette signed a 5 year contract, it would likely be 5 years/20 million.

[Doggy 130]

Absolute bargain. Well done, Bryan.

[12Newf 0]

yeah my first thought when i saw that was fil...the way i see it though is holland is the best in the biz and we have questioned him and been wrong soooo many times so i'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt considering he has a little more hockey knowledge than me or anyone else on here. unless one of you is secretly scotty bowman.

[daniel1 32]

I don't think you can even begin to evaluate ANY contract until at least the mid-way point. Let's revisit this argument 2 1/2 years from now and see if Holland's cheese slipped off his cracker or not when he signed Flip for 5 @ 3mil per. Personally, I think Flip is going to mature into a 30 goal scorer that plays excellent defense. He's got all the tools and a fantastic supporting/mentoring staff around him so I think his upside is huge. As salaries and the cap go up I don't think we will view Flip's deal as "overpayment" at all... even now if you look at what Finger, Bernier, Nolan, Demitra or Naslund got; I would take Flip and his current production (never mind his potential) over any one of those aforementioned clowns any day, and Flip's salary is very close (less for some) to that group of 2008 UFA signings. Before anyone screams that Naslund is twice the player Flip is remember that Naslund only put up 25 goals last season, compared to Flip's 19, while logging more ice time and seeing lots of time on the 1st PP unit for the Cannots. Which is more likely, Flip improving as he matures or Nazzy getting worse as he hits the end of his career? Next year Nazzy will make one million more than Flip and we can compare the two contracts then and I'll bet we'll be kissing Hollands ass as usual again when we do.

[Earthhuman 8]

I don't think you can even begin to evaluate ANY contract until at least the mid-way point. Let's revisit this argument 2 1/2 years from now and see if Holland's cheese slipped off his cracker or not when he signed Flip for 5 @ 3mil per. Personally, I think Flip is going to mature into a 30 goal scorer that plays excellent defense. He's got all the tools and a fantastic supporting/mentoring staff around him so I think his upside is huge. As salaries and the cap go up I don't think we will view Flip's deal as "overpayment" at all... even now if you look at what Finger, Bernier, Nolan, Demitra or Naslund got; I would take Flip and his current production (never mind his potential) over any one of those aforementioned clowns any day, and Flip's salary is very close (less for some) to that group of 2008 UFA signings. Before anyone screams that Naslund is twice the player Flip is remember that Naslund only put up 25 goals last season, compared to Flip's 19, while logging more ice time and seeing lots of time on the 1st PP unit for the Cannots. Which is more likely, Flip improving as he matures or Nazzy getting worse as he hits the end of his career? Next year Nazzy will make one million more than Flip and we can compare the two contracts then and I'll bet we'll be kissing Hollands ass as usual again when we do.

That's not really fair, Sather is a terrible GM. $10 million for Gomez...

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Both contracts finish as the players enter their primes. The difference is, Vermette is a huge steal for his, and Filppula is a little over-payed. Granted there are far worse contracts out there, but the only way Filppula is worthy of his contract is if his consistency improves. He's sometimes a $3 million player. I'm only hoping that, going into the season with a comfortable spot on the second line and good wingers, he shows us he deserves it. I'm reasonably confident he will, over the next couple of seasons.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Earthhuman

[norrisnick 1]

For the long-term Filppula's contract is great.

The problem is that we need cap space next season not 4-5 years from now. It wouldn't have been at all unreasonable to assume that in two years and playing behind all the talent we have this season and might be able to hang on to for next season that by 2011 Fil still wouldn't have been much more than a $3M/yr player. Val isn't going to be a 2nd liner next season.

This was a gamble Kenny didn't have to make unlike with Nik and not having any top 4 defensemen on the horizon at the time.

[daniel1 32]

That's not really fair, Sather is a terrible GM. $10 million for Gomez...

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Both contracts finish as the players enter their primes. The difference is, Vermette is a huge steal for his, and Filppula is a little over-payed. Granted there are far worse contracts out there, but the only way Filppula is worthy of his contract is if his consistency improves. He's sometimes a $3 million player. I'm only hoping that, going into the season with a comfortable spot on the second line and good wingers, he shows us he deserves it. I'm reasonably confident he will, over the next couple of seasons.

Actually Gomez' salary is only 7.35 against the cap. It's the average amount over the length of the contract that counts against the cap so looking at 1st line centers (like Gomez is supposed to be), 7.35 is not that out of line. I'm not a Gomez fan even when he was a Devil so there's no way in hell I would ever have given him that kind of money but at least he's been healthy and relatively productive, not 7mil productive, but does put up some points for the Rags. If by "huge steal" you are referring to the .5 that Ottawa is saving over the next 2 years then compare that to the 4-5mil that Ottawa is going to have to pay Vermette when his contract is up if he comes anywhere near the 30 goal plateau this year or next. The other part of equation that gets overlooked here is that we are guaranteed (barring trade) to have Flip for 5yrs while Ottawa isn't guaranteed to re-sign Vermette at the end of the 2yr contract. In fact, if Ottawa continues to slip and take it's soap opera dressing room down the standings then that increases the chance that Vermette signs elsewhere for better working and living conditions ( Ottawa is COLD and WET all winter... which lasts about 9 months).

After 8+ years in the Wings organization and the city I'm betting it will feel like home to Flip and he'll continue to bond with his teamates over the next 5 years and want to stay even longer when this deal is up.

When Vermette signs for 4.5mil for 3 years in Tampa or Phoenix after his current 2yr deal in Ottawa is done you can be sure the Sens will be wishing they had done a 5 for 3mil deal too.

[norrisnick 1]

Actually Gomez' salary is only 7.35 against the cap. It's the average amount over the length of the contract that counts against the cap so looking at 1st line centers (like Gomez is supposed to be), 7.35 is not that out of line. I'm not a Gomez fan even when he was a Devil so there's no way in hell I would ever have given him that kind of money but at least he's been healthy and relatively productive, not 7mil productive, but does put up some points for the Rags. If by "huge steal" you are referring to the .5 that Ottawa is saving over the next 2 years then compare that to the 4-5mil that Ottawa is going to have to pay Vermette when his contract is up if he comes anywhere near the 30 goal plateau this year or next. The other part of equation that gets overlooked here is that we are guaranteed (barring trade) to have Flip for 5yrs while Ottawa isn't guaranteed to re-sign Vermette at the end of the 2yr contract. In fact, if Ottawa continues to slip and take it's soap opera dressing room down the standings then that increases the chance that Vermette signs elsewhere for better working and living conditions ( Ottawa is COLD and WET all winter... which lasts about 9 months).

After 8+ years in the Wings organization and the city I'm betting it will feel like home to Flip and he'll continue to bond with his teamates over the next 5 years and want to stay even longer when this deal is up.

When Vermette signs for 4.5mil for 3 years in Tampa or Phoenix after his current 2yr deal in Ottawa is done you can be sure the Sens will be wishing they had done a 5 for 3mil deal too.

Vermette wouldn't have signed that deal. A 5 year deal for him would have been in the $4-5M/yr range.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

http://senators.nhl.com/team/app?articleid...mp;service=page

Antoine Vermette signed a $2.5 million deal for two years, according to nhlpa.com. This is a good deal for a guy with plenty of experience, 53 points last season (24-29-53), great on face-offs (6th best in league), and a regular penalty killer.

This makes me think of Filppula's deal. They're comparable- young, second-line centers; but Vermette is, lets be honest, the better hockey player. At least now. And he's counting for half a million less against the cap. If they were getting paid the same, ok, you could argue that Filppula is better in the playoffs so it's justified. This deal has made me slightly less comfortable with our deal, and I hope Filppula plays next season like his contract says he should.

Vermette turned 26 in July. He had 39 points as a 24-25 year old, 33 as a 23-24 year old. As a 23-24 year old, Flip landed 36 points. The likelihood that he tops Vermette's 39 points as a 24-25 year old this year is very real. In that way, Vermette is only better due to his experience/improvement (and lack of offensive depth on the Sens), not so much intrinsic talent.

Personally, I don't think either player is ever going to be an offensive dynamo..

[daniel1 32]

Vermette wouldn't have signed that deal. A 5 year deal for him would have been in the $4-5M/yr range.

Really. Unless he's living in your basement or you've got him on your msn contacts who knows what he would have done if someone offered him 5yrs of job security. Personally I think given his point production (see above posts) that he would take a 5yr/15mil deal, but the only one who actually KNOWS what he would have done is Antoine.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Really. Unless he's living in your basement or you've got him on your msn contacts who knows what he would have done if someone offered him 5yrs of job security. Personally I think given his point production (see above posts) that he would take a 5yr/15mil deal, but the only one who actually KNOWS what he would have done is Antoine.

It has nothing to do with job security. Antoine Vermette has job security if he wants it. He doesn't. If he did, he would've signed for 5 years, 2.5M. And if he wanted money, he would've signed short-term, and then gone big terms in 2 years entering what is the prime of a career for most players. Like he did. And if he would've signed for 5 years/15M, he would've been signed about a few months ago, if not much sooner.

[Earthhuman 8]

Actually Gomez' salary is only 7.35 against the cap. It's the average amount over the length of the contract that counts against the cap so looking at 1st line centers (like Gomez is supposed to be), 7.35 is not that out of line. I'm not a Gomez fan even when he was a Devil so there's no way in hell I would ever have given him that kind of money but at least he's been healthy and relatively productive, not 7mil productive, but does put up some points for the Rags. If by "huge steal" you are referring to the .5 that Ottawa is saving over the next 2 years then compare that to the 4-5mil that Ottawa is going to have to pay Vermette when his contract is up if he comes anywhere near the 30 goal plateau this year or next. The other part of equation that gets overlooked here is that we are guaranteed (barring trade) to have Flip for 5yrs while Ottawa isn't guaranteed to re-sign Vermette at the end of the 2yr contract. In fact, if Ottawa continues to slip and take it's soap opera dressing room down the standings then that increases the chance that Vermette signs elsewhere for better working and living conditions ( Ottawa is COLD and WET all winter... which lasts about 9 months).

After 8+ years in the Wings organization and the city I'm betting it will feel like home to Flip and he'll continue to bond with his teamates over the next 5 years and want to stay even longer when this deal is up.

When Vermette signs for 4.5mil for 3 years in Tampa or Phoenix after his current 2yr deal in Ottawa is done you can be sure the Sens will be wishing they had done a 5 for 3mil deal too.

The Gomez deal is overboard. I knew it wasn't 10 million average, but that's what he made last season, which is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. That's why his average is higher than it should be. By the way, I think it's $8 million average, according to NHLPA. Also, $7 million for Drury. Nearly $8 million for Lundqvist (deserves it, but conventionally goalies don't make quite that much). $5 million for Naslund. Really?! Ok, I'm looking at NHLPA.com, and these figures seem to be off. Regardless, overpaying.

The .5 isn't the huge steal. How much could he have gotten, what is he worth? More than 2.5 by far. That's the huge steal. If they're paying him $4-5 million next contract, it wont be much more than what he should be making now. I think they came out of this saving money and cap space. We didn't.

Flip side (no pun), we are guaranteed Flippula, but he is guaranteed a job. I believe he will continue to improve, but many don't. You know as well as all of us that 5 years in a city doesn't make the occupation permanent. We've had Yzerman and Lidstrom, but we've also had Shanny and Fedorov.

[Earthhuman 8]

Vermette turned 26 in July. He had 39 points as a 24-25 year old, 33 as a 23-24 year old. As a 23-24 year old, Flip landed 36 points. The likelihood that he tops Vermette's 39 points as a 24-25 year old this year is very real. In that way, Vermette is only better due to his experience/improvement (and lack of offensive depth on the Sens), not so much intrinsic talent.

Personally, I don't think either player is ever going to be an offensive dynamo..

Vermette centered the third line while Smolinski was there, and while Comrie is there. Being in the 30 point range on that line is great for a kid. His job wasn't even to score, and he did that pretty well.

Meanwhile, everybody wants Filppula to hit the 50 point range. 60 if they're unrealistic.

I also said, "At least now."

[Earthhuman 8]

Really. Unless he's living in your basement or you've got him on your msn contacts who knows what he would have done if someone offered him 5yrs of job security. Personally I think given his point production (see above posts) that he would take a 5yr/15mil deal, but the only one who actually KNOWS what he would have done is Antoine.

He almost went to arbitration. He wasn't going to take that deal.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Vermette centered the third line while Smolinski was there, and while Comrie is there. Being in the 30 point range on that line is great for a kid. His job wasn't even to score, and he did that pretty well.

Meanwhile, everybody wants Filppula to hit the 50 point range. 60 if they're unrealistic.

I also said, "At least now."

And Filppulas role was what? An offensive anchor? The role you described for Vermette last year was identical to his role with the Wings this year. 30 points is not great for a third liner. Its great for a 4th liner. 30 points is run of the mill for a third liner, which is basically the role Filppula was playing last year.

And Smolinski and Comrie "displacing" Vermette speaks more to Vermette's inabilities (at the time, not now) than depth. Comrie and Smolinski barely hovered about a .5 PPG rate with the Sens. Thats hardly tough competition for a guy that is supposedly clearly the better player than Filppula, who at 23/24 nearly broke 20 goals, 40 points.

And again, just to drive the point home, I dont think either players are going to be strong offensive producers throughout their careers..

Edited August 2, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[12Newf 0]

so why did vermette accept this deal.

[Earthhuman 8]

so why did vermette accept this deal.

I think that's been basically covered throughout this thread.

[Earthhuman 8]

And Filppulas role was what? An offensive anchor? The role you described for Vermette last year was identical to his role with the Wings this year. 30 points is not great for a third liner. Its great for a 4th liner. 30 points is run of the mill for a third liner, which is basically the role Filppula was playing last year.

And Smolinski and Comrie "displacing" Vermette speaks more to Vermette's inabilities (at the time, not now) than depth. Comrie and Smolinski barely hovered about a .5 PPG rate with the Sens. Thats hardly tough competition for a guy that is supposedly clearly the better player than Filppula, who at 23/24 nearly broke 20 goals, 40 points.

And again, just to drive the point home, I dont think either players are going to be strong offensive producers throughout their careers..

Filppula has been up and down the lineup. He spent a lot of time on the first and especially the second lines. He's not out there to shut down stars.

Smolinski was above .5 and Comrie was at about .6.

[norrisnick 1]

so why did vermette accept this deal.

Because it takes him out of the restricted stage straight to unrestricted free agency. Buying those unrestricted seasons is expensive.